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Where Can We Meet?

Posted October 02, 2010 8:26 AM

Proposed and actual plastic bag ban laws are gaining momentum as well as opposition around the world. The real problem seems to be litter control. Is there a middle ground for pro- and anti-plastic bag factions?

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Guru
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#1

Re: Where Can We Meet?

10/02/2010 9:41 AM

A link or two on the subject would be useful.

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#2

Re: Where Can We Meet?

10/02/2010 3:17 PM
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Guru

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#3

Re: Where Can We Meet?

10/03/2010 1:29 AM

And everything will be OK when plastic bags are done away with?

People will not simply continue to discard trash where ever they want?

Litter control is the problem for plugged drains and unsightly mess.

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Guru
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#4

Re: Where Can We Meet?

10/03/2010 3:36 AM

why to creat something, which creats a problem, and then struggle for the removal of trash. Just because, many have livelihood on this problem creating material?

Few years before we were living without plastic happlily. Let us go to that way of life once again

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Guru

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#5

Re: Where Can We Meet?

10/03/2010 4:29 AM

The politicians around here are talking about removing disposable plastic bags from the checkouts. The retailers' answer is to sell stronger plastic bags! But the biggest source of streetside debris is the light tarpaulin covers provided for the recycling boxes, which are blown around once removed for the collectors to remove the contents.

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#6
In reply to #5

Re: Where Can We Meet?

10/03/2010 4:34 AM

I've seen the mess around the world - the problem won't go away with a ban on bags!

Too many people are pigs - pure pigs! Banning plastic bags is like cutting off your foot because of a sore toe.

Pick up your trash and stow it well - 95% of the problem is gone.

Carrying my own bags to the store is not a solution as far as I am concerned - something that is totally inconvenient.

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#7

Re: Where Can We Meet?

10/03/2010 11:11 AM

I have an idea...let's make bags out of paper! A renewable/recyclable source and biodegradable too! Think that will help?

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#8
In reply to #7

Re: Where Can We Meet?

10/03/2010 2:33 PM

Calculate the quantity, how many trees etc!

Don't think the idea is positive at all.

Plastic bags don't degrade? Come on!

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#9
In reply to #8

Re: Where Can We Meet?

10/03/2010 3:38 PM

maybe it's more "plastic bags rely on oil, so lets reduce the dependency by removing one of the byproducts" (we can always make something more 'value-added' instead)

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#10
In reply to #8

Re: Where Can We Meet?

10/03/2010 6:06 PM

We can grow new trees! There are more trees in Maine now than there were 100 years ago and they've been cutting them for paper for a long time!

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#11
In reply to #10

Re: Where Can We Meet?

10/04/2010 9:20 AM

Hi Tom,

There is no problem with plastic bags. The problem is "people"! It's practically free when people need one, and people can use a few times, easy to handle and need very small place to hold, and can be disposed anywhere, anytime. Threre is norespect for plastic bags and people don't have discipline. People have less and less discipline today. However, money can create some discipline. Money is high value for people. We have to charge $ 1.00 or more for a bag at place of $ 0.05 or five cents. People don't have any discipline for 5 cents but start to thing to trow away one buck ($ 1.00) or more.

The only solution to get some respect and order with plastic bags' disposal, is increasing the price of the bag where respect is created with the money.

Someone needs to try because our garbage is coming bigger and bigger as disposed plastic bags. Important change, money in this case, is followed or forces acceptation and discipline.

Politicians, get up and do something for everyone, Gil.

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#12
In reply to #11

Re: Where Can We Meet?

10/04/2010 1:28 PM

This idea that a charge will work are not shown to be true in practice. Take the deposit system for glass bottles, which has all but died out - because people think that the deposit charge (here of 25p last time I saw) is petty compared with the value of the contents, but it makes the product less attractive due to the requirement to return to the purchase point to get the deposit back. Much easier to recycle with everything else. Plastic bag recycling is here also, so where is the real problem? Litter louts? Inefficient systems in place to deal with the 'rubbish (trash)' collected? Surely there could be a separation system for all the components, rather than just chuck them all in landfill.

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Anonymous Poster
#18
In reply to #12

Re: Where Can We Meet?

10/12/2010 11:04 AM

Hi GM,

Why is "not true in practice"? When we charge 10 to 35 cents for an empty bottle, thrre is no respect for the empty bottle. I already mentionned, make the price of the bottle half of the price of the value in the bottle. That way we will create some respect for the empty bottle, isn't it? We never made this testing. No one government imposed to its population to create some respect for reuseable things.

It can create a chain of operation to return the empty container, bag, bottle of other, by accepting the $5 empty bottle and sell for $4 to a collector. When money is available, we can do things.

Let me know if you throw in the garbage your empty bottle of wine when it costs $5 or more! Please, think and you will agree that money direct North-Americans actions. This money means all let us do things, Gil.

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#22
In reply to #18

Re: Where Can We Meet?

10/12/2010 6:52 PM

Over here, the only retail company I know where deposits are taken on glass bottles is Barrs.

They charge 30p deposit, but the problem comes when a bottle is taken for redemption.

If it is exchanged for another full one, no problem - but when a customer asks for the deposit back, especially if there are quite a few (after a party?), the retailer is none too happy. Now take bottles back to a place where they were not bought - truck drivers have great problems - and the effort is not worthwhile.

The logistics/accounting has led to the population being alienated against the practice.

Now, businesses do charge deposits on containers of 25l and above. Some put restrictions on their returns, for example the product must still be in date by the time the empty container is returned for the deposit to be refunded. Even at £10 each, it is such a small amount compared with the cost of the paperwork, the deposit is the least of the company's worries and is seen as a bonus if it is returned!!

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#13
In reply to #11

Re: Where Can We Meet?

10/04/2010 2:41 PM

I agree with your concept, but. *** Put a deposit on ALL containers. *** Plastic bags are containers, as well as packages used to contain any product. *** ALL means: Containers that they want you to recycle, at your own expense (transportation costs, time lost, air pollution, more waste) should have a deposit. *** The reason that they don't charge a deposit on necessary food items (which includes recyclable containers, milk jugs, wine bottles, food supplements (that claim to be essential, most are not, but are high priced and high profit), non-recyclable packages, etc., is that the poor cannot afford paying the deposit. *** So, the deposit is placed only on items that are purchased by the more affluent, which explains why there is NO deposit on any bottle of wine, the answer to this is out in the lobby. *** The deposit should be high enough, minimum ~$0.10 and based on the bulk and/or weight of each item when folded up as flat as possible or reasonably compressed by hand. *** This deposit would cause many of the worst polluters to stop or, at least, would get ALL litter picked up by those who need the money. *** The poor need the money, and would return their own waste for sure, and probably other people's for added income. *** So, the higher or new deposit wouldn't hurt the poor, but would probably help them. *** The worst littered neighborhoods would be cleaned up by kids that live there. *** The refund should be paid on all returned old litter and new deposit paid litter. *** Unwarranted refunds would cost much less than paying a road crew to pick up the litter, as most states are eventually forced to do. *** This would clean up streets, roads, highways, bike paths, neighborhoods, open land, beaches and recreation areas, etc...

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Anonymous Poster
#14
In reply to #13

Re: Where Can We Meet?

10/05/2010 2:38 PM

Hi Ima,

Excellent suggestion! When we pack $10 value, like wine for example, we must charge for the bottle at leats 50%, $5, being refundable. Higher value for the package, bottle, plastic bags, and many others get respect and become reuseable many times. When 50%, I talk about money, of the bought object becomes refundable, people get respect to the object and change to be disciplined and responsible.

To get all our suggestions, we need a few valueable and revolutionary politicians. Can we get them and how? The plastic bag manufacturers want that we use only once every bag we have on hand. They will sell more and more. This is profitability at elementary level. The government must get $4 on every bag for some environmental correction and the companies, plastic bag makers, get $1 as profit. This will be better business for everyone without garbage everywhere.

What's the name of this or these politicians? Let me know, Gil.

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#16
In reply to #14

Re: Where Can We Meet?

10/06/2010 4:48 PM

Hi Guest, You must have been reading fiction stories about the hypothetical politician. They don't exist anymore, except in fairy tales, such as talking animals, animals that put on their own clothes, honest lawyers, and trustworthy politicians. In real life the closest you find is the hyper theatrical politician. They are truss worthy and know the difference between legal and illegal. They always do the legal, after all who would want to do the sick bird? With politicians a fair chance is a chance affair. With deposits being too high it will reduce sales, unless everyone is convinced that it's the new government health care program. This program will be so effective that everyone will lose weight, and have fewer health problems. Enough of the serious ramifications, I must get back to work and study the eweifications. Buy, Buy

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Anonymous Poster
#19
In reply to #16

Re: Where Can We Meet?

10/12/2010 11:20 AM

Hi Ima,

High priced containers don't reduce sales! How much cost an Aluminum can when we sell a Coke or Pepsi? Around the same as the materials, chemicals to drink, isn't it? So, if Coca Cola or PepsiCo can sell products in this principle of pricing, why others can do the same?

Also, most of the famous and miraculous skin-caring pastes sold $25 the 100 ml pot. I agree, the pot is colourful, attractive and unique in shape. The real price of the chemical blend, natural or synthetic, cost $1 to $2 at max. The cost of the pot can be $5 by itself, isn't it?

What's the relationship between the high-priced containers, governments, and Health Care programs? Stay focused on the problem of refundable and disposeable containers. It's easy to say: It doesn't work! Why? Because we don't want to try it! This is the reason, Gil.

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#23
In reply to #19

Re: Where Can We Meet?

10/14/2010 5:17 PM

Hi Gil, I wasn't trying to imply that a higher cost deposit of 2, 3, 5 times what it is now would get everybody recycling everything they should. *** What it would do is enlist a hugh group of people to clean up everybody's trash. *** Some pick up containers with refunds now. *** Raise the deposit, and put it on all items you want recycled, and you'll have all the reachable trash picked up and recycled.

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#15

Re: Where Can We Meet?

10/06/2010 7:56 AM

Just don't wait ---- do something meaningful. We have already seen BPA contamination and landfills that are exploding

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Guru

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#17
In reply to #15

Re: Where Can We Meet?

10/11/2010 7:40 PM

Oh please protect us from the great imaginairy BPA monster! Does it live under the bed with that class of monster?

Exploding landfills? Now that would get everyone's attention. If the explosions could be timed for holidays?

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Anonymous Poster
#20
In reply to #17

Re: Where Can We Meet?

10/12/2010 11:27 AM

Hi Russ,

I agree with you that the BPA as BisPhenol A was magnified but killed no one in the case of plastic bottles.

However, when we have soo many plastic bags concentrated in the oceans, the dammage can be important.

It's probably the presentation or image we create with plastic bags is not effective to actions. We said baby bottle, the sentence became catchy. When is just for orange juice, did not matter. It's a difference of saying, pronouncing?

Wait for your opinion, Gil.

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Guru

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#21
In reply to #20

Re: Where Can We Meet?

10/12/2010 1:42 PM

No question that the mess in the oceans as well as on land is an immense problem.

When I was working in India various cities were busy banning plastic bags but that is treating a symptom - not taking care of the problem. The drains, streams and bays were still totally full of trash.

People need to take more personal responsibility for the little things in life - that is the only way.

I guess the deposit on containers/bags would create 'green jobs'. All the other garbage about green jobs is pretty much of a joke.

Russ

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Anonymous Poster
#24

Re: Where Can We Meet?

10/15/2010 7:45 AM

Somebody must come up with a good receipt about plastic. Problem will be solved. No more litters around.

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Guru

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#25
In reply to #24

Re: Where Can We Meet?

10/15/2010 9:29 AM

receipt?

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Anonymous Poster
#26

Re: Where Can We Meet?

10/15/2010 12:38 PM

Are there no litter laws? Or did we just give up on enforcing them?

We saw the "green police" mock ads about people tackling plastic bottle users - are there no litter police to tackle plastic (or any kind of) litterbugs?

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