Oil & Gas Technology Blog

Oil & Gas Technology

The Oil & Gas Technology Blog is the place for conversation and discussion about Drilling, Refining, Exploration, and Distribution. Here, you'll find everything from application ideas, to news and industry trends, to hot topics and cutting edge innovations.

Previous in Blog: Big Oil’s New Enemy   Next in Blog: Piracy Prevention Ponderings
Close
Close
Close
9 comments

Plug and Play

Posted February 17, 2011 7:00 AM

President Obama recently set a goal of one million electric cars on the road by 2015. Yet after 10 years, Toyota has managed to sell only a million hybrids worldwide. The energy density advantage of gasoline and diesel over batteries is hard to beat when recharging stations are few and far between. Assuming an electric car is in everyone's future, what is necessary to turn hope to reality? Is four years enough time to build the infrastructure, improve battery technology, and seriously alter the economics of petroleum-based transport?

The preceding article is a "sneak peek" from Oil & Gas Technology, a newsletter from GlobalSpec. To stay up-to-date and informed on industry trends, products, and technologies, subscribe to Oil & Gas Technology today.

Reply

Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

Comments rated to be Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive ratings to make them "good answers".

Comments rated to be "almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, rate them!
Anonymous Poster
#1

Re: Plug and Play

02/17/2011 11:36 AM

It would be if the US had a real energy policy. Unfortunately, so long as fossil-fuel powered lobbyists control the congress, it's not in the cards.

Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Guru
Hobbies - DIY Welding - Don't Know What Made The Old Title Attractive... Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member United States - US - Statue of Liberty - 60 Year Member

Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Yellowstone Valley, in Big Sky Country
Posts: 7158
Good Answers: 290
#2
In reply to #1

Re: Plug and Play

02/17/2011 2:23 PM

Is this about Electric Vehicles or Hybrids?

I think it is sort of a 'Chicken or Egg' thing. People are (to some degree) reluctant to buy a car that has little support infrastructure in place. Societally there is (to about the same degree) a reluctance to build expensive infrastructure for very limited demand.

Price alone is not the apparent culrpit. A Blackle search yields MANY cash incentives to purchase one, and there are many places where sales taxes, parking fees, yearly license fees, etc. are waived. In Denmark, a sales tax of 180% of the purchase price applies to new cars; an EV is exempt! Now THERE is a cash incentive, but there are only 500 or so EV's registered.

Or do the "...fossil-fuel powered lobbyists control the congress" all around the world?

__________________
When you come to a fork in the road, take it. (Yogiism)
Reply
Guru

Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: South of Minot North Dakota
Posts: 8378
Good Answers: 775
#3

Re: Plug and Play

02/17/2011 8:14 PM

For many its also a practicality of use issue. If it cant meet the normal driving requirements and save the owner money its not going to ever sell well regardless of its cost and support infrastructure.

Reply
Active Contributor

Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Delaware
Posts: 12
#4

Re: Plug and Play

02/18/2011 8:55 AM

We live in a "must have now" socitey. So untill we can design a true EV with batteries that can fully recharge within minutes instead of hours I personally do not think this is the wave of the future.

But that's just my opinion, and you know what they say about opinions....their just like *@!**$@! everybody has one:)

__________________
"You can't launch rockets out of a canoe."
Reply
2
Anonymous Poster
#5

Re: Plug and Play

02/18/2011 10:01 AM

without the ability to support millions of e-vehicles plugging in at 5:45 pm every night taking 15-20kw per how do we plan this, solar cells and a warehouse forklift battery and inverter to charger?? I think a natural gas fuel cell to power the charger is the only short term answer til we rewire the country, I still think a government mandate to standardize the battery so they could be swapped out a stations is the next idea to hit the long trip cars, highway sites with solar arrays would precharge the battery packs and you would pull out a packaged cyl and swap it for a charged one in a few seconds for a nominal ten dollars fee, ten cents a mile seems reasonable,

Sincerely
Mitch retired peugeot mech

Reply Good Answer (Score 2)
Guru

Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 7025
Good Answers: 207
#6

Re: Plug and Play

02/18/2011 10:18 AM

One of my favorite topics. And I do think the electric car will supplant the combustion engine in the not to distant future. I believe a zinc air/metal battery will be developed soon that will increase a vehicles range to over 400 miles/charge (Google Cody Friesen if you like). The battery is a big issue to be sure regardless if its based on lithium, zinc, or some type of ultra capacitor. The biggest problem I see is actually with electricity production. We all know about the evils of releasing carbon. I'm yet to see any carbon capture system that doesn't put costs right through the roof. Here are some very rough numbers to consider. The Tesla car (lithium Ion) claims to consume a little over 11KWH to go 40 miles (I'm sure plenty of you blow past 40 several times a week). Of course this varies a lot depending on slope, wind, heater-A/C usage, etc. The average American home uses about the same amount a day. And of course I loosely use the term "average" here. I use less but I'm an efficiency nut. The point is this. If we switched over from fossil to electricity to power our vehicles we would have to more than double of generation of electricity. Even if a 10-15% penetration of electric cars is desired we're going to have to generate a lot more power than we do today. Do you want the local coal fired plant to double in size? Are you ready to have a bank of solar panels and some home storage ( zinc flow) at the ready to charge up the family grocery getter? Regardless of cost of a KWH or gallon of fuel the change to electric will require a massive change in infrastructure and capacity/storage.

Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Commentator

Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Schenectady NY
Posts: 57
Good Answers: 2
#7

Re: Plug and Play

02/19/2011 3:22 PM

I saw a show on PBS awhile ago about how Denmark's Oil & Natural Gas (DONG) was implementing a plan to provide electric cars where:

  • the utility would own the cars' batteries, not the car owner
  • the owners would pay the electricity by miles driven
  • charging stations would not be on the homeowners bills
  • at workplace charging stations, during peak demand periods, the utility would actually "take back" energy from cars to meet demand
  • for long drives, car owners would drive into robot operated battery replacement stations, where a freshly and fully charged battery would replace the depleted battery in the car
  • Denmark gets a lot of energy from off-shore wind, helping charge vehicles overnight

Here's one link ... maybe you can find more info: http://www.itwire.com/opinion-and-analysis/fuzzy-logic/17370-denmark-signs-deal-to-implement-israels-electric-car-project

It seems like they've addressed a number of problems of using electric cars

Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Commentator

Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 56
#9
In reply to #7

Re: Plug and Play

02/27/2011 5:38 PM

"I saw a show on PBS awhile ago about how Denmark's Oil & Natural Gas (DONG) was implementing a plan to provide electric cars where:"

I fear that someone, along the way, will find this too precious to pass up.

Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Anonymous Poster
#8

Re: Plug and Play

02/19/2011 5:27 PM

I can remember a long time ago battery powered delivery trucks drove along the Delaware River water front in Philadelphia. So electric vehicles are not a new idea.

I don't believe in government subsidies. If electric cars are a good idea, the idea would sell itself. It would save money and not cost money. There would be a rush to get on the 'gravy train' to grab returns on investment. Oil lobbyists wouldn't be able to stop it because no government money is involved. That's the way an unmanipulated enterprise works.

I could drive one for everyday chores but it would need to be a second car. I still need the driving range of my gas powered car. The expense of maintaining two cars nullifies any advantages of ownership.

I try to be environmentally competent but it's not a religion.

--- CHAS

Reply
Reply to Blog Entry 9 comments
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

Comments rated to be Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive ratings to make them "good answers".

Comments rated to be "almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, rate them!
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

Anonymous Poster (3); Doorman (1); Fredski (1); Hornetson (1); robbump (1); tcmtech (1); vibration 1 (1)

Previous in Blog: Big Oil’s New Enemy   Next in Blog: Piracy Prevention Ponderings

Advertisement