Yep, courteousy of Samuel Clemens, "...the best gobberment that MONEY can BUY..."

Usbport,

Heat pump technology for water heating has been proposed and available for decades. I doubt that anyone has a currently-enforceable patent on it.

I was a participant in the energy fairs and associations that sponsored them in the 1970's-1980's, and remember heat recovery systems for refrigerators and air conditioners back then. In those years I also saw the early forms or geothermal heating units with supplemental provision for hot water.

An engineer friend in the early 1980's ran some calculations on a standard 40 or 50-gallon electric water heater's insulation. He found that the break-even point for cost/payback was R-90. These proposed standards do not come anywhere close to that amount of insulation.

Grounds for grousing?--Yes. Valid complaints?--definitely no. Government meddling?--each one can see this differently. Net expense to consumers?--a net payback in perhaps 5-years.

--JMM

There will be no payback.

I have been working in people's homes for decades now. Over 90% of them keep their hot water at almost scalding temperatures, and compensate by cranking open the cold water to cool it down.

I have an older hot water heater, and I keep it just hot enough to take a hot shower, with just a dash of cold water...about 110°-120°F...problem solved; it uses very little propane. No mandate necessary.

You know what would pay back huge dividends?

Teaching our school kids some very basic concepts of science and economics, rather than drugging them and teaching them to conform to the collective.

I would like to introduce a mandate that tells the government to stop wasting our time and money.

Something else just occured to me.

Homes that were built maybe pre 1980, had water heaters that were located inside the homes, either in a laundry room or closet, which made sense, and I don't remember anyone being killed by them.

Flash forward to the government induced panic over carbon monoxide poisoning, and virtually all hot water heaters are now placed in unheated spaces, i.e.- garages and attics. So...if you live in a place that gets really cold in winter, your water heater has to fight against that cold. How's that for efficiency?

"I have been working in people's homes for decades now. Over 90% of them keep their hot water at almost scalding temperatures, and compensate by cranking open the cold water to cool it down."

Yea I do it that way being I tend to need a lot of hot water for my excessively long showers and the closet my water heater in has no extra room for a larger unit.

Years ago I tried the turning the heater down bit. Problem was I ran out of hot water fairly quickly whereas the mixing excessively hot water with cold water gives me a much longer shower time.

Plus I have enough hot water available to have a my wife doing whatever she does in the kitchen plus having a the wash machine running and I still have enough hot water available for my long and most enjoyable shower!

As far as using more energy this summer I changed out the old propane powered water heater for a full electric. So far after several months of use I have seen at most a $15 a month rise in my electric bill.

I can live with that.

At least you're aware of what you're doing, and why.

I looked into why all of the building contractors now put water heaters in unheated spaces, and found out that they can still put them inside, but the new codes make it too much of an expense and hassle...so they put them out in the freezing cold.

Code requires a gasketed, self closing door, for inside closets...so they said, "Screw it, lets just put them outside."

Not to mention, that most inspectors treat people in the trades like the enemy.

This is just a case of more stupid regulations, to compensate for older stupid regulations.

Is there no end to our government meddling in our lives? Next they'll tell me I have to give up my whitie-tighties and wear boxers.

What about an ON DEMAND SYSTEM? If hot water is not under a constant demand i have to wonder about the energy efficency of just electrically heating the water as used and not constantly having the hot water in a containment?

I've looked into those, and I wasn't sold on them.

They're expensive, and over time they lose efficiency due to mineral buildup. If I remember right, it also takes a significant amount of energy, (gas/electric), to sustain a hot water flow, so the payback on the investment takes a long time, and they won't last as long as a conventional water heater.

Ronclarke & Karamat,

My biggest objection to the demand-type (or tankless) electric water heater is the timing of when we demand to use it. The utility companies have to build their infrastructure to supply the peak demand we put on the system, which (in most of the USA) is in the late afternoon and early evening in the summer. At other times of day, particularly the night, the demand on their generating plants is much lower. With a tank-type water heater it is very easy (and becoming common) to have the heating element switched off for a few minutes or longer when the utility demand gets too high. With a tankless water heater this is not only impossible, but the electrical load is at least triple.

Study the topic of demand and usage factors and integrate this into the topic of energy efficiency. Yes, tankless water heaters use less total energy per unit of water heated and delivered to the faucet, but their net effect on the utility (and therefore ultimately on us) is to raise the costs of providing electricity.

A good alternative would be a strong push for solar heaters, which produce the most hot water at the same time as when we have the greatest desire to use it. . .

--JMM

I'm just a beer swilling redneck.

During the warm months, I just lay my hose out in the yard, and shower in the driveway with a hose nozzle. Soap and rinse...it's always hot. Finish with cold.

No neighbors to speak of; and if they saw me, they would turn the other way.

Kramarat,

I'm sure that you are much more than "just a beer swilling redneck". I spent 10 years living in Arkansas, and have a lot of respect for people who are sometimes so-termed. Sorry about misspelling your title in the earlier post. I've used a hose once or twice; worked pretty well also. Certainly "instant" hot water with solar power, and no fossil fuel input.

--JMM

Well, I've spent a lot of time cultivating my "beer swilling redneck" image. Please don't blow my cover.

About time they require electric water heaters be energy efficient to bad its going to take until 2021 for it to happen. It took them from 2004 to now to get to this point. Government is working at warp speed.