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How the Pyramids were Really Built

Posted January 06, 2008 6:31 AM

Ever wonder how the great Egyptian Pyramids were really built? After decades of published books and television programs dedicated to the topic, the theories abound. From thousands of laborers employed to move huge boulders, to aliens from another construction company far, far away, the true facts behind the design and construction of these wondrous structures have never been agreed upon. Read how one theoretician is trying to provide the final answer to one of mankind's most perplexing construction questions.

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#1

Re: How the Pyramids were Really Built

01/07/2008 2:50 AM

The main fault I find here is the supposed application of fire to make the concretion, what was burned to produce the heat needed? Why were no charcoal ruminates discovered on site or near the site? And if this is the method used what did the mesoamericans use to manufacture their pyramids?

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#2
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Re: How the Pyramids were Really Built

01/07/2008 10:14 AM

There is a lot of Ancient Egypt that has not been uncovered yet.

Kilns to burn blocks that size may not have been made of anything permanent and would very well have been eroded away from the winds and sand, and certainly any charcoal remnants would have long since been scoured away.

As far as the South American pyramids are concerned, it seems to me that there hasn't been as much work towards them as there have been with the Egyptian pyramids.

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#3
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Re: How the Pyramids were Really Built

01/07/2008 11:34 AM

Hi Janissaries, all

1st off Happy New Year

"Kilns to burn blocks that size may not have been made of anything permanent and would very well have been eroded away from the winds and sand, and certainly any charcoal remnants would have long since been scoured away."

Geez, having known a couple of potters...kilns to make blocks...the size of tractor-trailers...would have to be uh, rather substantial! Strong enough to hold the blocks, strong enough to withstand the enourmous heat-energy of a fire big enough to heat that mass enough to 'bake' it. And a lot of blocks. A lot of BIG blocks....

Archeologists often use ancient firepits to date habitation of a site...firing blocks of that mass long enough to bake them, that number of them...would take a *lot* of heat, fire, and therefore something flammable...if it were wood, I guess there would still be signs of it somewhere (under the sand, still undiscovered, perhaps...but not all gone)(in fact I would expect a lot of vitrified material to be around too...)

Someone here could probably make a rough estimate of the amount of heat required to bake that many 'bricks' of that size! More than I need in my woodstove for a winter ;-)

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#4
In reply to #3

Re: How the Pyramids were Really Built

01/07/2008 11:50 AM

I give you a thumbs up for your answer.

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#19
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Re: How the Pyramids were Really Built

01/09/2008 5:29 PM

Oh no, the whole concept of huge blocks hardened in kilns is dumb...I mean, why harden blocks in the ground, then move them up the ramp when you could move small bags of concrete mix up the hill and mix them there? Normally when you burn limestone in a kiln, it calcines down into a powder, and I would have said that you could not harden limestone in a kiln at all, though this fella's experiments have blown that idea out of the water...apparently when there is enough silt, clay or dirt in the limestone, it can be fired like a brick, making it less crumbly and more useful as a building stone. Never saw THAT one coming! Next step of course would be to see if such a process actually WAS used, rather than just a "proof of concept" that it "might" have been used. Remember, the Kon Tikki expedition was nothing more than a "proof of concept" exercise as well.

Actually, this is not such a stretch...we know they DID burn clay (or river mud) to make bricks which DID get used in the temple complexes (base of the sphinx for instance, this is not at issue. The idea that they filled up the pyramids 2 ton versions of this brick is absurd, and far too easily refutable, but the idea that they would have salvaged questionable limestone by burning it is an interesting one. Of course, it seems silly to ME to try to salvage limestone in a land known as the "land of stone" but having worked in a limestone quarry once upon a time, I have seen some pretty buttery stone being cut up and put on the skids!

Anyway, just wanted to get that out of the way...this discussion seems to be suffering from the same sort of attitude which pronounced with great gravity that it would be impossible for trains to travel more than 22 miles per hour, or that it was just co-incidence that the red rock of Prince Edward Island, Canada so much resembles the stone of Carlisle England.

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#20
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Re: How the Pyramids were Really Built

01/09/2008 5:39 PM

The last I heard the Sphinx was built 10,000 years ago, well before the pyramids were.

They've identified the erosion on the Sphinx to have been caused primarily by rain, where as erosion in the pyramids is caused by wind.

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#26
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Re: How the Pyramids were Really Built

01/10/2008 10:15 AM

And multi-spectrum imaging of the Sahara from low Earth orbit tells us that the desert was once crossed by many rivers, hence likely quite well vegetated. So for some 7K years the Sphinx suffered rain erosion, which stopped, leaving the pyramids to wind erosion...but wait, the Sphinx was blown on by the same wind...hmmm, a quandry.

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#28
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Re: How the Pyramids were Really Built

01/10/2008 10:42 AM

The sphinx has the wind erosion as well but it has the water erosion that isn't present on the pyramids.

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#31
In reply to #28

Re: How the Pyramids were Really Built

01/10/2008 4:39 PM

Didn't nobody 'splain it to me like that before! OK, quandry's gone, leaving only a lonely...

But is there REALLY a ~7K year difference in the dates of construction? That seems a bit extreme to me...

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#33
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Re: How the Pyramids were Really Built

01/10/2008 4:50 PM

I saw that program on either the History Channel or Discovery Channel.

They explained that it was about 10,000 years ago that that region was a tropical rain forest.

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#40
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Re: How the Pyramids were Really Built

04/28/2010 12:06 PM

But if you mention this to most Egyptologists, they won't acknowledge it. I read something recently (sorry I forget where, naughty ER) a story of a well known person in the field sending some cropped pictures of the pyramid and Sphinx to another vey highly respected expert in the field and asking him to identify the erosion patterns.

"Rain/water and wind respectively" came the answer.

The first guy then sent the original pictures, marking the cropped areas on them and asked the same question.

"Don't drag me into that argument. I'm saying nothing." was the response.

The big problem conventional "wisdom" has with this figure is that 10,000 yo civilization(s) rather upset the applecart in terms of the development of mankind and civilization as currently understood from the record. "They" will tell you that there are "no artifacts that old".

Underwater pavements and building remains off the coast of Japan are thought to be that old.

I think part of the problem lies with anthropologists' entrenched view that human progress is linear. I don't know why they think that, since within resonably accurate recorded history we've seen technology and knowledge come and go - think of the Golden Ages of Greece, Rome and Persia and contrast these with the aptly named Dark Ages (Medieval Times). Why is it not even theoretically possible that there was/were other high technology civilization(s) that we've not discovered/recognised?

Another part of the problem is that we judge "technology" by our metal and oil based technology. Yet we could not build the pyramids (Egyptian or Mesoamerican) to their standards. We struggle to replicate Stonehenge in straw with fork lifts!

And what about this?

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#41
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Re: How the Pyramids were Really Built

04/28/2010 12:15 PM

Yes I saw something about that on the Discovery Channel and it had to do with the Sphinx being build long before the pyramids and they deduce their argument from the erosion on the Sphinx being caused by rain water and the pyramids not having the same type of erosion. They concluded that the sphinx had to of been built during a time when that region of Egypt was a luscious rain forest.

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#24
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Re: How the Pyramids were Really Built

01/10/2008 10:07 AM

WHAT?!? Trains travel more than 22 miles per hour? Who knew? The ones I wait for at the crossing barely make a tenth that...

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#8
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Re: How the Pyramids were Really Built

01/07/2008 2:13 PM

I could rationalize that (kilning) could have been a part of the manufacture of obelisks, but I would also have to think that (fragments of) smaller obelisks would have to have survived in some circumstances that would have revealed their manufacture to be of a similar nature. But an (assembly-line)-type of process for blocks which where then placed in the inner portions of a pyramid are even more doubtful, but technically possible...

Hauling large blocks up sides of a large pyramid would become increasingly difficult to manuever around corners, as the pyramid became higher, unless they were first moved to the far side of the layer, to form a relatively level, (mesa)-like, platfrom upon which to spread the blocks of the next (masaba?) out. The problem is that the axis of the ramp, if perpendicular to the face of a pyramid, would only allow for a practical slope of, maybe, half that of the pyramid itself. Thus, such an incrementally rising ramp would have been a major structure unto itself, but remained un-depicted in any reliefs that I have seen (which is, admittedly, very few...), possibly rising to the very top of the pyramid, and then, totally dismantled... If so, then what happened to all that material?...

Also, the average size of the blocks would have, most probably, gotten smaller and smaller, as the (plateaus) got higher and higher. I do not think that the average size of the blocks at the top of the pyramid are not correspondingly smaller, in size, than those at the bottom. Although there is probably some reduction in average size, is there enough?...

It is apparent that, after a very careful (construction control survey), the corners of the pyramid were placed first, as controls, with the intermediate blocks filled-in. A big question should be about how they were physically able to achieve adequate construction-control of block placement well enough to achieve (essentially) the desired slopes, all the way up the sides, layer by layer, with relatively primative surveying equipment and techniques...

It may well not have happened, but it would have been smarter to have built the inner portions of the pyramid all the way up to the top, placed the capstone(s), and then placed the facing layer(s), from the top, down, removing the ramp(s), as the (workhead) receded back down each of the layers of the pyramid. What does the evidence say about which way the pyramid was surfaced?

Additionally, have the pyramid facing stones that were (recycled...) into Bey's palace walls ever been studied to estimate their original size, thickness, and/or source?

A cursory view of any of the egyptian pyramids will reveal that the block sizes vary substantially, and yet, some of the quarry photos indicate an attempt at some uniformity of size. Apparently, (suppliers) were not required to provide blocks of x-cubits by y-cubits by z-cubits with any consistancy. Did the (government) prescibe minimums?

If all the relevant sites have not yet been thoroughly investigated, isn't it still possible that a quarry existed then, from which such proto-concrete blocks could have been drawn?

There was a TV-special on years ago that showed archeologists walking between the layers of an (Aztec?) pyramid. This would seem to indicate that they were periodically enlarged, as the community population increased, to add shell upon shell, and are therefore fundametally different in their construction methods, than the solid egyptian pyramids?...

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#9
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Re: How the Pyramids were Really Built

01/07/2008 2:46 PM

Well with the advanced technology that the aliens possessed I'm sure they used tractor beams to accomplish those difficult feats, but then again with such an advanced intelligence, safety would have been a priority but we find bodies of people that were crushed between those blocks.

They used to say those blocks weighed 10 tons each but then later it came out that the blocks only weighed 2 tons at most.

They hold their construction as being phenomenal because they are fitted together with such tightness that you can't hardly slip a piece of paper between them.

I don't think their engineering skills were very primitive. They would be considered primitive because it was an ancient civilization but it's obvious that they were a little more advanced then we give them credit for because our modern day engineers are still theorizing how they did it. It's technology that has been lost and may turn up when they've uncovered more of the buried ruins.

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#21
In reply to #9

Re: How the Pyramids were Really Built

01/09/2008 7:46 PM

Ok, but to specifically which space aliens do you refer? Perhaps those from Mars? or Alpha Centauri? (or Texas?)

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#23
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Re: How the Pyramids were Really Built

01/10/2008 10:03 AM

I'd hold out for the "Lone Star" aliens myself...

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#25
In reply to #21

Re: How the Pyramids were Really Built

01/10/2008 10:08 AM

I saw a show with that Fracker guy from Star Trek the Next Generation guy hosting.

At the end he showed some hieroglyphics that showed a helicopter and jet plane and some other things that we use as present day technology.

Maybe someone will be inventing a time machine and going back to teach them how to do it and we're just going through a continuous circle.

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#27
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Re: How the Pyramids were Really Built

01/10/2008 10:18 AM

Maybe. I'd volunteer to be the guy that goes, but only if the time machine works both ways...

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#30
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Re: How the Pyramids were Really Built

01/10/2008 12:07 PM

Let us not forget that, a few (dozen?) years ago, Kenny Rodgers did record one song that dealt with a "Planet called Texas" ? Hmmm.....

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#32
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Re: How the Pyramids were Really Built

01/10/2008 4:47 PM

Good point (another below...). But the nearest pyramids to Texas are Aztec in origin down Mexico way, and post-date the Egyptian pointy mounds by a couple of thou years. So even if the aliens were from the planet Texas, it looks as if they brought the technology back with them rather than taking it there...

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#34
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Re: How the Pyramids were Really Built

01/10/2008 6:09 PM

"But the nearest pyramids to Texas are Aztec in origin down Mexico way."

Not so. This one was in Texas.

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#36
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Re: How the Pyramids were Really Built

01/11/2008 12:06 PM

Hmmm...sounds like a great plotline for... http://www.fox.com/kingofthehill/

Damnit, Bobby, get over here, I want to hug your neck.

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#35
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Re: How the Pyramids were Really Built

01/10/2008 10:43 PM

Where DO you get all those cool pictures to illustrate your posts?

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#37
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Re: How the Pyramids were Really Built

01/11/2008 12:13 PM

It's all Sparky's fault, man - I asked about animated graphics, he turned me on to one website, I googled some others, and now half my available memory is .gif and .jpg files! There are lots of free icon sites and free picture/clipart sites out there, just a matter of looking them up, then pick & choose what you want to save. Right-click, choose save picture as, and put a name you'll remember on it, there y'go then. No wizardry required, all the chicken bones and voo-doo are in the computer...

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#43
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Re: How the Pyramids were Really Built

04/29/2010 4:49 AM

That'll be the Cat and Squibble up to their tricks again, aided and abetted by a Rat and other assorted rodents and hangers on.

Have you lot not heard of the KrisDel™ Time Machine...?

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#5

Re: How the Pyramids were Really Built

01/07/2008 12:58 PM

I read the article, and am left with more questions than answers. I have never visited the pyramids of Egypt, and so really don't know what they are made of...I was always under the impression that they were made from sandstone or low grade limestone (http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/material.htm), with a limestone faceing. Why is there a need for cement or concrete of any kind? I get the impression that this fella is suggesting that the pyramids of Egypt are made from concrete blocks. Or rather, something a little more interesting...calcined limestone....a material I am not familiar with outside of a bag of mortar cement.

I applaud him for coming up with a new theory, and actually subjecting it to experiment, even if I cannot quite see why he would bother! "Because it is fun and interesting" is good enough for me!

That link above also reminds us that much of the ancilliary (and more important IMHO) buildings are built from fired mud bricks, so they certainly DID have the technology to make kilns. And as far as charcoal and wood goes.....well, I live on the Ottawa river, and within MY memory, there were times when you could walk across the river on the logs floating down to the mill. I am sure some Ancient Egyptian entrepreneur must have noticed that "hey, wood floats", and "hey, there is a whole continent of timber just upstream". But I speculate here.

I like the experiments, and the interesting experimental results. Very thought provoking! May prove interesting in other fields. Most experimental research does.

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#7
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Re: How the Pyramids were Really Built

01/07/2008 1:24 PM

Since there are several pyramids and they were built at different times, I would assume that each one was build a little differently then the others and that their material make up would be different. Some might even have been built from a combination of different materials. The oldest one was built with a lot of smaller blocks then the newer ones.

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#6

Re: How the Pyramids were Really Built

01/07/2008 1:02 PM

REALLY?

Monstrous kilns built and fired for each block? Whence the firewood to fuel these kilns? The entire land of Egypt would be stripped bare of all trees in a relatively short time. Then what?

Would not a microscopic examination of the limestone blocks of the pyramids prove conclusively their origin as natural or man made ? If such an examination has not been made was it not done in fear of learning the truth of the origin?

This thesis raises far more problems than it solves.

In my opinion <TheForgottenTechnology.com> provides a far better scenario for the movement and erection of the pyramids. This is not even mentioned in the OP.

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#10

Re: How the Pyramids were Really Built

01/07/2008 2:52 PM

Seems to me a quick, simple analysis of the material the pyramids are made from would determine rather easily whether they were natural limestone/sandstone or artificial concrete. But then, I may be missing something here...

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#11
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Re: How the Pyramids were Really Built

01/07/2008 3:04 PM

There are a lot of different sized pyramids. Some of the low budget pyramids might have been built from fired bricks and someone might have come across something stating that but it was probably not related to the major pyramids that we see in all the pictures.

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#12

Re: How the Pyramids were Really Built

01/07/2008 4:16 PM

Please refer to thread:

What is in the pyramid shape that fascinated the ancients?

All Giza Pyramids. Zoom in to get a sense of proportion.

A lot of theories have been established explaining how the ancient Egyptians were really built their pyramids, but till now I think the real procedure still unknown or secret.

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#13
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Re: How the Pyramids were Really Built

01/07/2008 5:07 PM

Given your proximity, I think I'd take your word over most. Any idea if an analysis of the material(s) of construction has been done, and if so, what the results were?

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#14
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Re: How the Pyramids were Really Built

01/08/2008 2:05 AM

We, like yours and all people, appreciate all efforts, ideas and trials to explore the secrets in building the Egyptian Pyramids (Great Pyramid of Giza).

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#15
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Re: How the Pyramids were Really Built

01/08/2008 8:04 AM

Thank you. My reading of this indicates no evidence for the presence of concrete in any form that we know it - limestone, basalt, granite, possibly sandstone, but no artificial materials. And an indication that Egypt (at least since the last ice age) has had insufficient timber resources to make fuel for creation of concrete (slaked lime) a remote possibility at best. I remain in awe (as do most), but will not join this current band of (thanks to Petrie) "pyramidiots"!

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#16

Re: How the Pyramids were Really Built

01/09/2008 8:57 AM

How did one small man build coral castle ?

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#17
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Re: How the Pyramids were Really Built

01/09/2008 10:16 AM

Perseverence! Look at the Watts Towers in Los Angeles, CA...

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#18
In reply to #17

Re: How the Pyramids were Really Built

01/09/2008 12:30 PM

Okay guys, I heard the dialogue. Now, THIS is how the pyramids were really built!

I sincerely (and I mean sincerely) believe such innovative techniques as this were quite probably responsible for the magnificence of the those pointy towers. Makes sense doesn't it?

-John

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#22
In reply to #18

Re: How the Pyramids were Really Built

01/10/2008 9:58 AM

Give him a lever long enough, and a place to stand, and he could move WHAT?!? Pretty amazing for such so-called "primitive" technology, what?

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#29
In reply to #18

Re: How the Pyramids were Really Built

01/10/2008 10:46 AM

John,

That is fantastic........well done........and good luck with the campaign!

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#38

Re: How the Pyramids were Really Built

04/23/2010 3:55 AM

Many people have claimed that the pyramids were built by slaves, or even by aliens. In the past, it was difficult to convince the public that it was actually ordinary Egyptians who constructed these great monuments. With the discovery of the Cemetery of the Pyramid Builders, however, I was finally able to reveal the truth to people around the world – Dr. Zahi Hawass.

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#39
In reply to #38

Re: How the Pyramids were Really Built

04/23/2010 12:32 PM

There's no way of knowing. Egyptians never recorded their failures.

The Hebrews have claimed to have been Egyptian slaves all these centries. Articles are never really reliable sources because people write them with their own biases included. Isrealis have never been liked in the Middle-east. What's to say the author of that article wrote it with an underlying agenda to discredit the Hebrew culture.

Furthermore the actual Hebrews bear very similar physical features as the Egyptians and other Middle-eastern cultures. It was easy for them to infiltrate strategic military installations in the 1960's to win the wars with Egypt and the other Arabic countries.

Since the Hebrews had different beliefs, they most likely took care of their dead in a different manner than the Egyptians. Maybe they weren't allowed to dispose of their bodies near the location of any Egyptian burials.

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#44
In reply to #38

Re: How the Pyramids were Really Built

04/29/2010 9:20 AM

I would also like to add that don't you think there could be a corallation with the Exodus of the Hebrew slaves and the Pyramid structures getting smaller and discontinuing all together.

Could those Egyptian peasants have been hired to complete the work that was left behind by the slaves.

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#42

Re: How the Pyramids were Really Built

04/28/2010 12:27 PM

If you have any questions about how the pyramids were build just ask eigher myself or Al Gore, we were both standing right there when they were being built. Al Gore will tell you it was a much cooler time back then because there wasn't any global warming.

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