Does the U.S. Auto Industry Deserve a Bailout?

Yes,

But of course it's not as simple as that.

I do think that any bail-out should include some strict guidelines. If they are going to use taxpayer money they should spend it the way that benefits taxpayers most.

I'm thinking of the show "Blog Cabin" on the DIY Channel. Everything gets voted on online and the cabin gets built surprizingly well.

Top management for these companies should also come under citizen review.

If this works we can look at congress next.

The managers and the unions blindly exploited the barriers to entry to increase wages and pensions and fringe benefits to unsustainable levels.

These barriers were mainly the high cost of freight and the network of dealers in USA/Canada, different standards and rules also acted as barriers.

So management let wages go up to $72/hour with fringe benefits and pensions summed in(cash was about $35. On top of this was the overlay of management wages which added another $50 or so.

As time went by, the Japanese and Koreans solved the freight problems with special fast on/off ships and their own dedicated ports(to bypass the longshoremans unions) and they gradually built up a dealer and parts supply network and began to sell cars that were better assembled (with lower wages the workers could spend more time on each aspect of car assembly). So the foeign cars started selling and the % of he market grew every year.

Management and unions kept their heads deep in the sand and wages went up and management waste went up, and in time we arrived at our current state.

All we can do is retrench the wage, benefit, and pensions of both management and unions by about 50%.

Even with a 50% drop, both management and workers will be getting more than the average industrial wage (which shows you the degree of the imbalance).

That is about all that can be done. Giving them bailout money and letting the current state carry on will solve nothing and the whole thing will collapse a litle later.

I think the only answer for our automotive industry is to put them through chapter 11 reorganization. The old management system needs a big time shake up and the fat unions need a reality check.

But we (the federal government) need to keep this from happening until we get our nation economically stabilized, get the new Administration and Congress firmly in place and determine where we are going with health care and energy policy, both of which will have a big effect on the industry's future.

So I think a short term bailout, like 6 months is a good idea. The government should take some kind of preferred equity position and also insure in some way that product warranties and parts availability will be maintained.

What I don't think we should do is dismantle our American auto manufacturing companies in favor of foreign companies. Chapter 7 is not a good option. The idea of punishing the auto companies should be cast aside.

Also I don't think the auto companies should be forced to get rid of their large autos, SUV's and sport trucks. Just limit their sales in the USA and maybe allow the SUV's and light trucks to be sold only as diesels. They are in fact profitable exports for the companies and help our trade position.

Ed Weldon

chapter 11 would bankrupt alot of the suppliers that supply the big three , as it did with alot of Tower automotive suppliers when they filed chapter 11 ,especially when the filer of chapter 11 can recall all payments made to these supplier for completed product of the previous 90 days piror to filing chapter 11, the answer is to let the big three file for bankruptcy and get rid of all the over paid lazy union workers that have run the three auto maker into ground. you dont see any Japanese auto makers having this problem!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Every once in a while I hear a phrase or statement of some kind that just fits the bill.

In the movie "Unforgiven", starring Clint Eastwood as "Bill Mundy" (sp?), the sheriff is lying there dying, and he's complaining that he doesn't deserve to die, he's building a house.

And Bill says to him: "Deservin's got nothin' to do with it".

This applies to the car makers, and the victims of genocide, and the....

The US government would be insane to give tax payers money to the car manufacturers without massive restructuring of management and work practices, also a complete rethinking of the type of sustainable transport needed in the futer.

Our government has just donated 3 billion dollars[ I have serious doubts about there sanity] to our car manufacturing industry with little or no thought to futer requirements. The companies in question did not need the money,they might be doing it tough but were not down and out.

If the car mnf Ind needs help they will have to prove they have something worth helping

These are the companies that are run by people who took 3 SEPERATE private jets from Detroit to go to Washington & beg for more money.

It took 2 of them a week to figure out that they really should give them up. Of course, they won't take a big cut in salary like Lee did, but what do we expect.

Bailout NO

FIRM restructure guidance YES

The party's over,now it's time to clean up the mess.

Like in nature, the market takes care of itself.

Only the strong and smart survive.

No.

I am from the Pittsburgh, PA area, remember the Steel Mills and Steel Workers?

Noone bailed them out and the number of people who lost their jobs and the suppliers who went out of business and downsized forced Western PA to reinvent itself.

We as consumers spoke about the lack of new design, poor design, and providing of vehicles we didn't want.

Quality seems to have always taken a back seat in Detroit, but it never came to light until Deming showed the Japanese what it was all about.

Quality and cars people want, a selling point that has now been passed unto the Koreans, and I suspect very soon to the Indians and Chinese manufacturers.

They are striving hard in that direction right now.

". . . . . but it never came to light until Deming showed the Japanese. . . "

Wow! There's a famous name from the past!

Yup! The Asians learned how to best the Americans from an American!

L.J.

Quoting qaqcpipeman:

"We as consumers spoke about the lack of new design, poor design, and providing of vehicles we didn't want. ........ Quality and cars people want, a selling point........"

This line of thinking is only partially correct. Sure, everyone wants quality, especially the owner that just paid up in the 4 figures to repair a mechanical breakdown on a vehicle a few miles or months out of warranty. That's why we buy Toyotas in our family. Yes, people like us are a large factor in the Big 3's loss of market share. Yes, a lot of people want economical hybrids and electric vehicles now (there's a fad and "look at how green I am" factor acting out here).

But a big piece of the car buying market got exactly what they wanted in the SUV's and luxury pickup trucks. I know countless guys (and it's usually guys) who loved their big vehicles, Suburbans, F350 duallies, etc. for their recreational and ego boosting value up until the price of fuel became intolerable. Some of them still do nurture that love affair. They just don't drive as much.

The Big 3 had an edge of many years of experience selling trucks for use as family and personal vehicles rather than work vehicles. So they were well poised to serve a market that came into the showrooms with prosperity, easy credit and a "what the h....; lets go for it" attitude in their pockets. Note here that even the high quality foreign car makers in recent years have gotten into that game and are taking away SUV and light truck market share from the Big 3.

Everybody knew what was coming; but like addicts we refused to face it preferring to live in the present with no view to the future. So now they are in big trouble largely due to hubris, poor management at the top and a commitment to short term profits rather than producing good product and a sustainable business model.

We should temper the cries to throw the entire industry (the Big 3) into the landfill of history. The rot is not 100%. There is still a lot of good stuff in "Detroit" worth saving.

The United States needs to play the roll of a surgeon rather than undertaker. We need to carefully cut away the bad stuff so the organism can get better. Further the medical analogy, the patient really can't operate on himself except to remove the occasional splinter from his skin. A few pills may make him feel better for a while but won't produce a cure. The surgical procedure is called Chapter 11 bankruptcy.

Ed Weldon

Bailout .? Should we or shouldent we ? All replies to this are excellent but i agree with Ed Weldons comments here . I am Canadian but we here are as guilty as any . I look at the current state of affairs regarding the car companies and all the other crap that is coming to light as a " reflection " of what we have allowed to happen in our basic operating systems . Our capitalist system with its good points and bad are now so corrupt and flawed that we have no other choise , but to reap what we have sown.

Dont get me wrong , im not a religious person but i cant think of a better way to describe how we have let simple GREED run our entire societies systems . Our Governments now are bought and sold to the highest corporate bidder , our Presidents and Prime Ministers are mearly talking heads who take there orders from the corporations who actually make things go one way or the other . I fear that we have made a very big mess of things and we will now have to pay the conciquences .

Hi,

thinking and speaking from Europe but with the intention to save the big 3:

Let them merge to a single company after going bankrupt to get rid of overwhelming burdens.

Let them offer their European designs (Opel and Ford have good and cheap small to medium size cars),

try the best to get a fundamental reorganisation

and hopefully this one will survive.

The crisis did reach all car manufacturers, their suppliers worldwide and their material suppliers: steel, copper, plastics - prices and deliveries are down.

Warnings of immediate severe problems are existing in any of the car-builders countries.

So we will see in 2 to 5 years what happened. Good luck - to be amplified by good management!

RHABE

The mfgs gave the buying public what they wanted, luxury trucks and SUV's.

But we are our brothers keeper, like it or no. They should have been continuing to develop more and more efficient cars, and should have put up advertising that reminded us of the '73 oil embargo and the possibility/probability of global warming, to encourage us to buy them. Had this been done, we wouldn't be engaged in this conversation.

Ever since '73 I've driven fuel efficient cars. I didn't want to get caught with my pants down a second time.

I guess what I'm getting at is that those executives thought they were so smart they 'deserved' multi-million dollar compensation. It's obvious they weren't.

The big three have shown enough poor judgment over the last few decades that it is easy and satisfying to just declare a pox on all their houses, watch them go down the drain, and buy Toyota's and Honda's.

I'm all American... red white and blue.....apple pie and the 4th of July .....but.... I'm also a former machinist and current quality inspector with over 10 years in manufacturing so when it came to purchasing a vehicle it was only a question of Toyota or Honda. We got a Toyota Camry that was built in Kentucky. Awesome design, superb quality and a great price. I've never seen a comparable product from the big 3 even come close to this vehicle but I wish they could.

Buying a foreign car (even from built here) was like admitting defeat, but I had to.

No.

Reality is a far bigger picture than many can conceive.

The U.S. Auto Industry and how is it actually contrived?

The question as I see is do the supporting industries deserve to be left in the cold because of poor parent industry management and CEO ineptitude? Can we as a nation allow a considerable segment of our manufacturing base to squandered due to casual manipulations of an irresponsible host?

The only rational way is for a bankruptcy court to break all contracts and impose a wage drop of 50%, and a similar cut to pensions and fringes as well as 50% less management salaries(some at the top should be cut 90% or more or fired) and all stock option plans, bonuses etc = toast.

The carmakers could then operate and go forward, shave output, shift out put etc.

They call this "grasp the nettle"....will they do it?

Not a chance, a gnashing and wailing will ensue from all the unions and right waing groups.

I for one like the idea of competing quotes.... for work forces.

We need 1000 machinists, which union will give us the best quite for 1000 jobs for 10 years? As it stand unions are protected from anti-competitive laws, they are indeed local monopolies and they have grossly abuse their powers. There is still all the union fat in state and federal govermnents, teachers unions etc to be cut away to get the USA/Canada into health.

Unions talk of zero wage increase if they get a COLA (Cost of living adjustment embedded in ALL union contracts). So for the past 30-30 years they have gotten 2 to 3% above the COLA cap. COLA is also 2-3%. so now you see why this devastating wage inflation has occurred. Private wage payers are dragged up by this.

It is politically incorrect to mention this or deal with it in any way = ultimate sacred cow.

Now the USA has a union loving administration, you think they will grasp this nettle? Not a hope. They will pay the 25 billion and when it fails to work, wring their hands to distance them selves from the inevitable bankrupcy proceedings

"a gnashing and wailing will ensue from all the unions and right waing groups."

I believe you mean left waing groups. They're in bed with the unions in this country.

Age >10

i agree with a little but disagree with most. i agree that the primary sentence combines two elements that really don't belong mashed together. that is union and right wing groups.

but the wailing and gnashing from the left wing groups is not because they are in bed with unions. it is because corporations and government are all short sighted crooks and morons. that is how they feel, but out of politeness, they don't usually say it out loud, unless they are preaching to the choir.

In my opinion NO!

Having driven, worked on, and made my own from the "BIG 3" I find no redeeming value.

In 1980 my Dad and I made a 25 MPG diesel 3/4 ton Pickup from a Ford Chassy. 25 MPG was loaded and unloaded average and this was used to deliver lubrication (Oil drums) to customers. The last I heard the Pick Up had 500,000 miles on it. That was years ago.

If any of the US car manufactures wanted to they could have done this then, they have not even now.

The AAW and Big 3 stock holders have funneled value from the US car market for years. They have used the American pride of made in America to charge far more than the value given. Now it is time to even the free market system. Not pay them for their greed. If you bail them out they will need it again because they will have learned the wrong lesson.

Brad

The USA is learning from Europe, how to propr up huge inefficient organizations, hat in time collapse.

Better to collapse them now.

aurizon,

The motto would be along the lines of " take the easy short term way ", as opposed to your own motto.

LG_DAVE

It appears to me that the US is in a state where the large companies should be bailing out the government. Not the other way around.

Good idea - and it may be what actually is happening with the current "bail out"

Where is all this bail out money coming from?

Is there some huge pile of billions of dollars that the government had prudently set aside for just such an emergency?

Or, are they just printing up more as they need it?

In the "printing more" scenario, all the money becomes worth proportionately less, so all of us - widows, orphans, rich, poor, companies and unemployed are funding the bail out.

Hello LG Dave,

Or, are they just printing up more as they need it?

Yes with a twist, The Federal Reserve ( a private corporation ) let them print it for a fee. Nothing of value was brought forth, the dollar was just devalued by a large percentage. Sounds like it will be repeatedly devalued if the government and bankers have their way.

My question is if the banks caused this by securitizing mortgages, which is illegal, why is no one going to prison? Even indited?

Brad

There doesn't seem to be much information on how we are going to get out of this mess by doing exactly what we have been doing.

We borrowed and printed money until we were clear down the crapper - so now we are going to borrow and print money on a much larger scale until .......

I too thought that lending money without proper security was supposed to be illegal. I am unsure where and when that became "complicated"

I didn't know all of that UV, GA

They are as you say just 'printing more money', and it is understood that this will de-value the dollar. But -

1. If they don't do this our real economy will be in the crapper, and the dollar will be the same value as toilet paper. If on the other hand they increase the money supply by say 10%, the dollar will be devalued by a simalar amount which is a problem, but not as big a problem as the TP scenario.
2. Since we are a debtor nation, a devaluation of the dollar will be a bonus, since we will be paying off the debt in devalued dollars.
3. If our money is worth less we will export more and import less.
4. In spite of all our economic problems, the rest of the world seems to think we're doing something right, and our dollar is actually getting stronger.

So yes the fed will cause inflation by printing more money, but right now inflation is probably our least bad choice.

I don't accept the notion of us being a "debtor nation" easily. With our resources - natural, infrastructure, intellectual and political stability - why do we have to operate in debt?

I can see how we got here, and could stay here, by operating with strictly short term goals. I don't see anything in this latest round of bailouts that will improve anything. Where is the mechanism that will let us plan a year or 10 years ahead?

I recall a short time ago trying to untangle my garden hose. It was very difficult because the thing was just a little too stiff to untangle properly. This was not the cheapest hose I could find - it was mid-priced.

We have let our standards slip a lot in this age of "low prices".

What about value?

Are these goods that sell for such "low prices" produced under conditions that we would allow here? If wage levels, environmental protection practices and toxic material levels are out of line with our own standards we need to impose protective tariffs to penalize these producers. Tariffs will raise prices and maybe make it more difficult to sell us lead painted toys, pirated CD's and melamine pet food. But they will also let us focus more on value rather than just "low prices".

Thanks for bringing up the business about NiMh batteries. This kind of skullduggery is at the heart of everything that has gone wrong with our economy. Clearly the people responsible for these decisions do not deserve a bail out. But neither do the American people deserve to loose such a big part of our economic base. The factories are still standing, the technology and trained workers are still there. We need to get rid of the corrupt management without loosing too much of the infrastructure, both physical and human.

Hello johnfotl,

We need to get rid of the corrupt management without loosing too much of the infrastructure, both physical and human.

The problem is in all three aspects of the companies: Overpaid union labor; Controlling stock holders that skim the business; Over paid management who allow things to happen because they are paid to.

All will fight to keep their pockets stuffed. I'd even bet that the stockholders had something to do with GM selling Texaco it's patent on the NiMH batteries. If you leave any of the three you will just have a mess with that third taking advantage even more. The consumer will still lose. Like pigs at a trough.

Brad

Most of my former home was paid for with money earned in the car business. What says a lot is that in the 30 odd years I was in that industry, I never once worked for a domestic dealer or distributor.

The reason for that is simple: I've been heavily involved in engineering activities most all my life and frankly, never saw anything designed and built in Detroit (or York, Pennsylvania) that excited me technically or aesthetically.

Consistent with that position was that while I owned Porsche's, MB's, VW's, MG's and other cars of foreign origins, not once did I own an American made car.

What I find very novel is that Harley-Davidson has thrived beyond any one's wildest expectations, in spite a 50 year old design that has more cobwebs than an Indiana Jones cave.

Detroit's problems are not merely one of a lackluster image or old product designs. Harley too, damn went down the tubes when they were owned and mismanaged by AMF. It was new, sharp management that turned H-D around and some shrewed marketing that is the most innovative I've ever seen.

And, lest it be overlooked, please notice that they have more foreign born competition in the motorcycle industry than Detroit has from car makers anywhere.

Clearly it's inept management and while some might think that the current crises of confidence is the cause, it's not. Detroit has been slowly dieing for decades, simply because of their inability to compete.

Detroit is a family of chain smokers, who having discovered that they have a cancer, are pleading for salvation, while their fingers grope around in the dark, desperately looking in the ash tray for an old butt to light .

L. J.

I worked at GM for twenty years and I can honestly say that this company is not deserving of a bailout. It is hide bound and so controlled by short term bean counter thinking that it can't get out of its own way. With out a significant change in management thinking it will continue to waste the resources of american manufacturing. That being said, I believe that they should receive the 18 billion so their default will not drag the economy over the edge. That amount should allow them to stagger in to bankruptcy in 2010.

Guest -- I agree with you (see my previous post here). "short term bean counter thinking" is a poison to those who must face competitors who have the strength to operate on the basis of long term strategy. It's not the only poison, of course, that our auto industry has been drinking. I can think of a few others such as subordinating technology and quality to name two.

But I'd like to dwell on the primacy of short term financial results here for a moment. I don't blame the big 3 auto companies for having to adopt that line of thinking. It has been forced on them, just like many other publicly owned businesses, by a legal and regulatory structure (e.g. the quarterly report syndrome) that for long has been assumed to be fundamental to America's economic success. In the face of current events that structure needs to be examined with some serious objectivity and measured against systems in place in the other major world economies.

We all have seen the success of Toyota and Honda. There is more to their story than Asian work ethic or outright bending of WTO rules and trade agreements.

What say you all? Where do we go once the dust settles from the current storm? What should our new President and his administration and Congress be doing besides throwing or not throwing money at the immediate problem at least with respect to the stuff the SEC administers ?

Ed Weldon

This is from Dan Digman in Momentum, the magazine of the National MS Society.

A woman at a campground walked by an outhouse with it's door flung open. She looked in and saw a man standing inside throwing $10 and $20 dollar bills down the hole.

She stopped and asked the man, "Why are you throwing $10 and $20 bills down the hole of the outhouse?"

The man looked up and told her, "I accidentally dropped a quarter down there, and I just wanted to make it worth my effort to climb down and get it."

I guess this makes about as much sense as bailing out the big 3.

Shadetree -- I don't exactly agree with the applicability of the Dan Digman analogy; but it is a good one. A lot of us think we're looking at throwing good money after bad.

I view it a little differently. Our economists really don't know what to do. So we've got another high priced economic experiment to decide on. GM is the proverbial canary in the coal mine. Most of us view injecting money into them as just an attempt to save the canary's life. It's more than that. We are in uncharted waters of the world of economics and we still don't know what course to set to get us through. The difference now is we are asking the Congress to put on an economist's hat and do the right thing. They might as well experiment on GM and learn what will work the next time one of our major industries is about to tank.

The debate now is about what will happen to our country if GM goes into chapter 11 or even chapter 7. Henry Paulson and his crew are sideline sitters there. They had a pretty good idea what to do when the banks got into trouble because they all worked and earned their stripes in that world. But manufacturing is not their game. And neither is it the game of the Congress. Matter of fact our whole nation has been chewing for quite a few years on the idea that a "post industrial" society is a great idea. I don't think so; but that's just me. .....well, so much for our collective wisdom on the subject.

So back to the initial question: Does the automotive industry deserve a bailout? I guess that depends on whose ox needs to be gored and why. And what positives we would like to end up with and what negatives we think we can handle.

Ed Weldon

Should the automakers receive help?

The textile industry did not receive much help if any. Consequently all those people who lost their jobs are either not working, or are earning less.
The tire industry did not receive much help if any. Consequently all those people who lost their jobs are either not working, or are earning less.
The steel industry did not receive much help if any. Consequently all those people who lost their jobs are either not working, or are earning less.
They adapted to earning less. Also consequently they are all paying less income tax, or maybe even receiving money from the government, instead of paying taxes to the government. So our government needs to tighten its belt. We won't be able to afford the highest technology in military planes, weapons and wars to promote our way of thinking.

China will, India will.

Yes Ed,

Unions have had a stranglehold on this country about as long as the banking boys. Just two different sides of a bad penny.

I don't disagree with your general line of thinking. The UAW and The big Three all need a haircut. My reference to the past industries being hung out to dry was to point out that they should not have been ignored either. I don't believe in our "open market" being as open as it is or in NAFTA.

The unions became strong due to the "protection racket" methods they exercised when the money was coming into Detroit in buckets. I also witnessed, from an engineers point of view, the rules that were put into place by the unions.

But it's all about greed. The unions were necessary to protect the workers from the greed of the management. They found what power they had, and became greedy themselves.

It's also about basic economics. Before the competition of imports Detroit concentrated on FLASH!!! Bigger. longer, lower, wider, CHROME!
They built what customers wanted, (with marketing people telling us what we wanted). Without competition they hyped what was easy to build, they had "planned obsolescence" style-wise and designed-in an abbreviated lifespan mechanically.

Next there is basic bargan hunting. You and I: Ten-dollar shirt from Taiwan, or thiry dollar shirt with "the union label"? The Big Three: they cried "Buy American" then took your american dollars and bought Japanese machine tools. Why? They were cheaper.

With competition American cars got better. Not soon enough, but better. They will get better if they are alive to compete. Of course I don't view the industry as a being that may live or die. It is a large number of individuals. Your next door neighbors and mine. It's totally unrealistic to envision all these millions of individuals going off into the sunset and millions of unexperienced replacements being able to reverse the momentum of some Americans buying foreign cars.

We can't extract revenge against the management or the union people who contributed most to the problem. They mostly are retired, or took buy-outs. To "let the industry die" would be trying to spite the replacements, who are now working for half the wages of their predecessors. Ideally a government intercession would weed out the last of the old-line union thinking, and old-line marketing and management (your Haircut). Maybe the question is "would the American public be more apt to buy American cars if we changed the name on the buildings from Ford, G.M. and Chrysler to Fred's, Joe's and Becky's"?

But who would be inside the buildings? The people with experience who are willing to change.

Let the courts have at it? Are you kidding? Do you want to go to court for ANY reason? (Think trying to run a cross-country foot race in the Okefinokee)

Guest --

I know where you are coming from; but I'm afraid I'm a bit more of a cynic than yourself. I'd say the UAW believes they are in a pretty good negotiating position figuring they delivered the state of Michigan to the Democrats. As long as this is the month when jumbo transfer of debt to the government is all the rage among economists they figure they will do just fine. The only thing sure about next month is that the UAW will do everything to insure that their members are not hurt in the coming depression and the rest of the nation be forgotten.

That outfit will begin to get some credibility from me when an assembly line worker's pay drops below that of my engineer son (MSME, 12 years design experience, 70 hour workweeks in a CA company).

And the government telling the automakers how to run their companies? That's the biggest joke yet.

This country is looking at a double digit drop in GNP. The world economy is falling apart. Most of us are sitting here blindly expecting the automobile companies to lay off a few workers, hire some new execs and return to profitability by selling millions of high mileage new technology vehicles in a year or two. Just exactly who are we expecting to buy these vehicles and what are they going to use to pay for them with the 21st century version of war bonds sucking up discretionary income so our nation can pay off the maturing treasury notes now held by the Chinese and middle eastern investors?

Two of these auto companies are headed for bankruptcy. Chrysler will come first and then GM. Hopefully the industrial and commercial vehicle side of GM will survive intact. Ford may or may not survive depending on whether we can get enough people back to work to buy their cars.

Sure, bail them out so they have time to reorganize. I think we (the USA) still has a enough of a credit line to keep the billions flowing for another 3 or 4 months. But then what? Saudi Arabia says that they are rolling red ink for their nation at anything below $75/barrel oil price. (today it was something like $43) China's export business is not collecting the dollars that they pumped into treasuries in the past few years. The EU and the Soviets are in worse trouble than we are.

In a very few months the plight of the automakers will seem like small potatoes unless somewhere in the world of economics they come up with some better answers.

Ed Weldon

Its obvious by the comments that the US car industry have made a rod for their own back. We don't know the fine print of any loan, but there will be stipulations. But if the companies are managed to continue with their loss making management and decisions, it will just prolong the inevitable.

You can only live on credit so long.

The auto industry does deserve a bailout but the management deserves the boot

Mnice -- You sound like another well fed (and likely well armed) Libertarian trying to sell your ideas to the majority of us. Your sales pitch may not play to well this year with too many Americans feeling pretty vulnerable. But next year? Who knows?

Getting to the heart of the question I myself care little whether the US Auto Industry deserves a bailout or not. But I'm pretty sure the nation as a whole deserves to have the Auto Industry get a bailout. We can argue about the economic efficacy of bailing them out, and well we should. I, for one, support the current thinking that such action is necessary. Throwing up a flak screen of constitutional law arguments or other blocking tactics does not help anything IMHO.

Ed Weldon

Hello MNice,

...basic Constitutional law that everybody was supposed to learn in high school civics class.

After reading the 1917 common law legal books to pass the BAR, My civics class in high school was full of BS. Congress has replaced rights with privileges and laws with statutes. The Uniform Commercial codes are never mentioned.

Or that Judges by the Constitution (both State and Federal) are required to take an Oath of allegiance to the Constitution but most do not. Why? because you are not a party to the Constitution, They are required to uphold the Constitution or be guilty of Treason.

Lawyers of the BAR are agents of the court and most will not pee in their pool of construed laws.

Brad