Previous in Forum: Operational Safety   Next in Forum: Non-Sinisoidal Power Supply
Close
Close
Close
21 comments
Rating: Comments: Nested
Associate

Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: INDIA
Posts: 49

Non-Sinisoidal Power Supply

04/04/2015 10:04 AM

Generally we have ac and dc power supplies . Ac is coming to our home which is a sine. Why cant we use a ramp or square? Is there any specific reason of not using these type of ac power to our home appliances?

__________________
Success is a wall made by bricks called failures.
Register to Reply
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive votes to make them "good answers".

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 42355
Good Answers: 1693
#1

Re: Non-sinisoidal power supply

04/04/2015 10:46 AM

Ask your parents for a library card.

Register to Reply
Associate

Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: INDIA
Posts: 49
#2
In reply to #1

Re: Non-sinisoidal power supply

04/04/2015 11:42 AM

I can understand lyn that you dont know the answer. Thats why you are diverting the issue.

__________________
Success is a wall made by bricks called failures.
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 42355
Good Answers: 1693
#3
In reply to #2

Re: Non-sinisoidal power supply

04/04/2015 12:23 PM

And I understand that you are too lazy to use a search engine.

Register to Reply
Guru
Popular Science - Evolution - New Member Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member

Join Date: May 2006
Location: The 'Space Coast', USA
Posts: 11119
Good Answers: 918
#4
In reply to #2

Re: Non-sinisoidal power supply

04/04/2015 1:25 PM

There is some wisdom in Lyn's approach.

A fundamental understanding of electromagnetism and early development electricity will provide the answer you are looking for.

If you feel you already have that understanding you might want to revisit the subject. The historical events alone should provide you a solid clue.

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: About 4000 miles from the center of the earth (+/-100 mi)
Posts: 9910
Good Answers: 1141
#5

Re: Non-sinisoidal power supply

04/04/2015 4:59 PM
Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Guru
United States - Member - Hobbies - Fishing - New Member Hobbies - Target Shooting - New Member Hobbies - RC Aircraft - New Member Engineering Fields - Aerospace Engineering - New Member

Join Date: May 2009
Location: Saint Helens, Oregon
Posts: 2216
Good Answers: 70
#6

Re: Non-sinisoidal power supply

04/04/2015 5:48 PM

You seem to know enough about electricity to be dangerous, but not enough to know why. Look at this → LINK ← Study it thoroughly and by the end Phase V, you will have a good understanding of electronics and why things follow certain rules.

Good luck

__________________
Confucius once said, “ Ability will never catch up with the demand for it".
Register to Reply
Guru
Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member Engineering Fields - Engineering Physics - New Member Engineering Fields - Nuclear Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: No. VA, USA (No, it does NOTu mean "won't go"!)
Posts: 1796
Good Answers: 75
#8
In reply to #6

Re: Non-sinisoidal power supply

04/04/2015 8:57 PM

OOOOOOOH. THAT might take some work, and maybe give him a headache. But he's a "2nd year BCE" (??) so he SHOULD already know that.

Hm. Curiouser and curiouser. Do TROLLS study anything?

__________________
Been away a while. Miss all my old friends. Some of you I KNOW are still around. Where are the rest?
Register to Reply
Guru
Engineering Fields - Electrical Engineering - Been there, done that. Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Long Island NY
Posts: 15600
Good Answers: 981
#10
In reply to #8

Re: Non-sinusoidal power supply

04/04/2015 10:20 PM

Wait a minute here. Where did you hear about this guy pursuing an engineering degree? The best questions he's proposed seem more like an intuitive eighth or ninth grader instead of somebody that should be graded on their knowledge of the Taylor expansion and the Fourier transform.

Then again, even a clever eighth grader should recognize their spellchecker telling them that they misspelled "sinusoidal".

__________________
"Don't disturb my circles." translation of Archimedes last words
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 42355
Good Answers: 1693
#11
In reply to #10

Re: Non-sinusoidal power supply

04/04/2015 10:30 PM

#13

It came straight from the horse's mouth.

Register to Reply
Guru
Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member Engineering Fields - Engineering Physics - New Member Engineering Fields - Nuclear Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: No. VA, USA (No, it does NOTu mean "won't go"!)
Posts: 1796
Good Answers: 75
#13
In reply to #11

Re: Non-sinusoidal power supply

04/04/2015 10:40 PM

I just read that entire thread. He is even more dangerous, stupid, conniving, lying, and idiotic than I thought.

What is he REALLY? He surely isn't educated, nor intelligent.

Unbelievable.

AND he either can't read, or won't, even when someone is giving him the answer to his question.

Give up, guys. His brain is LONG dead!!!

__________________
Been away a while. Miss all my old friends. Some of you I KNOW are still around. Where are the rest?
Register to Reply
Guru
Engineering Fields - Electrical Engineering - Been there, done that. Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Long Island NY
Posts: 15600
Good Answers: 981
#15
In reply to #13

Re: Non-sinusoidal power supply

04/04/2015 11:16 PM

Seeing how poorly he takes criticism and his inability to understand a technical answer, I think the engineering claims are purely false bravado claims in an attempt to belong here at CR4. For his sake I hope that he is an eighth grader trying to act older and more experienced than he has a right to claim. From what he's demonstrated so far the only engineering degree he might have is one purchased from a paper mill.

__________________
"Don't disturb my circles." translation of Archimedes last words
Register to Reply
Guru
New Zealand - Member - Kiwi Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member Engineering Fields - Power Engineering - New Member Engineering Fields - Electrical Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posts: 8777
Good Answers: 376
#20
In reply to #13

Re: Non-sinusoidal power supply

04/06/2015 4:27 PM

That's why I finally lost it and took the time to post this

http://cr4.globalspec.com/thread/99996#comment1080314

If he's willing to learn from his mistakes then I'm willing to help, but he has to learn to perform his own basic research himself or we will be answering his work related questions in the future.

__________________
jack of all trades
Register to Reply
Guru
Engineering Fields - Electrical Engineering - Been there, done that. Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Long Island NY
Posts: 15600
Good Answers: 981
#7

Re: Non-sinisoidal power supply

04/04/2015 8:55 PM

First, you really should not repeat a question on a forum. Ignoring the stated rules of a forum will just produce more friction with the regulars. I'll grant you that your question in this thread is better phrased than the other thread that Rixter pointed out. However, violating the rules without either an apology or explanation is rude. I and many others here are getting very tired of your poor netiquette.

Second, like your earlier question about an oscillator, you've stumbled onto a very astute seemingly simple question that requires more background theory to fully explain than you realize. The simplest and dominant reason that a sine wave is the waveform used to distribute power is the kinematic geometry of a generator.

__________________
"Don't disturb my circles." translation of Archimedes last words
Register to Reply
Guru
Technical Fields - Technical Writing - New Member Engineering Fields - Piping Design Engineering - New Member

Join Date: May 2009
Location: Richland, WA, USA
Posts: 21017
Good Answers: 795
#9

Re: Non-sinisoidal power supply

04/04/2015 9:12 PM

The coordinates of a point that goes round and round in a circle, like generators and stuff, are sine/cosine curves. Understanding the round and round part is usually easy, but maybe not the sine/cosine part.

__________________
In vino veritas; in cervisia carmen; in aqua E. coli.
Register to Reply
Active Contributor

Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 13
#12

Re: Non-sinisoidal power supply

04/04/2015 10:32 PM

Simply because it is generated lhat way. That way is the natural way to generate power in a rotating machine: the generator.

To generate a square or a sawtooth wave requires a much more complicated outfit and the long distance transmission losses would be fenomenal.

Register to Reply
Guru
Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member Engineering Fields - Engineering Physics - New Member Engineering Fields - Nuclear Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: No. VA, USA (No, it does NOTu mean "won't go"!)
Posts: 1796
Good Answers: 75
#14
In reply to #12

Re: Non-sinisoidal power supply

04/04/2015 10:42 PM

Not to mention the fact that while the waveform would be incredibly "dirty", as it lost the outer frequencies making up the form, it would tend toward a sine wave anyway. But, as you noted, with a lot of energy losses along the way.

__________________
Been away a while. Miss all my old friends. Some of you I KNOW are still around. Where are the rest?
Register to Reply
Guru
Hobbies - DIY Welding - New Member

Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1601
Good Answers: 58
#16

Re: Non-sinisoidal power supply

04/05/2015 9:09 AM

Think about how a piston in your automobile, or any engine powered mechanism, goes up and down as a function of time. This is the same path that your AC power supply takes, only it happens 50 or 60 times per second, depending on what country you are in. Think about the destruction that would occur if you were to attempt to power your lawnmower engine or auto in a square or ramp pattern.

Register to Reply
5
Guru
Hobbies - DIY Welding - Wannabeabettawelda

Join Date: May 2007
Location: Annapolis, Maryland
Posts: 7940
Good Answers: 458
#17

Re: Non-Sinisoidal Power Supply

04/06/2015 11:27 AM

One word answer:

Harmonics

Now, your assignment is to look up harmonics and tell us why a square wave is not a good way to transfer power, especially for rotating machines.

Register to Reply Good Answer (Score 5)
Guru
Engineering Fields - Electrical Engineering - New Member Fans of Old Computers - Commodore 64 - New Member Popular Science - Evolution - New Member United States - Member - New Member

Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Illinois, 7 county region (The 'blue dot' that drags the rest of the 'red state' around during presidential elections.)
Posts: 3683
Good Answers: 89
#18
In reply to #17

Re: Non-Sinisoidal Power Supply

04/06/2015 12:31 PM

Excellent Answer, Professor Sir Robin, that'll definitely get the students to put their noses in the books. Perhaps some knowledge will rub off on them along with the ink.

__________________
( The opinions espressed in this post may not reflect the true opinions of the poster, and may not reflect commonly accepted versions of reality. ) (If you are wondering: yes, I DO hope to live to be as old as my jokes.)
Register to Reply
Guru
Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member Engineering Fields - Engineering Physics - New Member Engineering Fields - Nuclear Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: No. VA, USA (No, it does NOTu mean "won't go"!)
Posts: 1796
Good Answers: 75
#19
In reply to #17

Re: Non-Sinisoidal Power Supply

04/06/2015 3:57 PM

Yeah. It's not the constructive phase convergences that will get you, though they can be a bit of a problem as well, if amplitudes get boosted into runaway oscillation range, but the destructive convergences will eat your lunch.

UMMM, crunchy pistons. AND hot copper windings.

To paraphrase Bill Cosby, at the Dentist "Smobek, I smell SMOBEK!"

__________________
Been away a while. Miss all my old friends. Some of you I KNOW are still around. Where are the rest?
Register to Reply
Member

Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: India
Posts: 8
#21

Re: Non-Sinisoidal Power Supply

04/11/2015 10:44 AM

The power (electricity) is transmitted in the form of sine wave, since it is more advantageous then other waveforms, so sinusoidal has been made choice to choose. However u have questioned a very nice one, keep posting this type of posts fyn

__________________
Mathematicians are the kings of science
Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Register to Reply 21 comments

Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive votes to make them "good answers".

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

adreasler (1); Anonymous Hero (1); Brave Sir Robin (1); Carl Westhoff (1); dj95401 (1); Durga prasad (1); jack of all trades (1); Lokeshloki (1); lyn (3); micahd02 (4); redfred (3); Rixter (1); Tornado (1); welderman (1)

Previous in Forum: Operational Safety   Next in Forum: Non-Sinisoidal Power Supply

Advertisement