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No Ouput From My Eurotherm Controller

07/23/2015 5:33 AM

I am using a Eurotherm 3504 controller to controll a valve based on input pressure.

See details:

PV - Pressure transmitter input (0-5 bar), 4-20mA (i/p to controller)

Module 1 - Remote setpoint (0-5 bar), 4-20mA (i/p to controller)

Module 2 - Analogue output of valve actuators position to control room (0-100%), 4-20mA (o/p from controller)

Module 3- Analogue output to valve actuators (0-100%), 4-20mA (o/p from controller).

---Proportional action with gain of 40%/bar

(I interprete this to mean ...a 1 bar change in pressure results in 40% valve movement when proportional acts on its own. This gives a gain of 2 and PB of 50% I believe).

---Integral action time - 300 secs

---No derivate

Problem: I do not get any response in the output. Modules 2&3 are both reading their lowest vales - 4mA as output, which corresponds to 0% open in the actuators.

I am using a set point of 2.5 bar (midway of the 0-5bar pressure transmitter scale). When I vary the i/p current I am using to simulate the PV, (4-20mA), I do not get get any output in the valves.

Have I got my interpretation of the PB wrong?

I wish I could post screen captures here.

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#1

Re: No Ouput from my Eurotherm Controller

07/23/2015 8:28 AM

Hello, have you contacted the folks @ Eurotherm? I work with them almost weekly, and find them to be very helpful & accommodating for any of our OIT issues.

Best of Luck

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#2

Re: No Ouput from my Eurotherm Controller

07/23/2015 9:22 AM

I do not see where or how the valve position feedback is getting to the I/O without the use of an analog input card.

Without this critical feedback information to the controller cannot possibly modulate output to control the valve position nor provide valve position to the control room so it will not function.

Does the valve position report to Analog Input Module 1?

If so I would check the 4-20mA feedback signal from the valve position at the I/O terminals and verify for correct position value(s). (Does 4mA = fully closed and 20mA = fully open or 4mA = fully open and 20 mA = fully closed? 12mA = 50% open?)

It may be that the analog I/O modules are not configured properly to match the valve operation constraints. Below are some items to consider.

Are all controller and valve positioner Engineering Units (EU) set to the same correct value?

Does the scale and range configuration of the I/O match the valve operation?

Is the valve mechanically set up correctly?

Does the applied air pressure satisfy valve positioner requirements? (O - 5BAR, 0-10 BAR,?)

Is the valve operation correct ? (Forward or Reverse Operation?)

Is the controller set up to match the valve operation?

Is the valve type correct for the application?

Are there any major faults stored in the CPU fault table that are preventing the controller from operating?

Is the supply voltage level correct?

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#3

Re: No Ouput From My Eurotherm Controller

07/23/2015 12:45 PM

> PV - Pressure transmitter input (0-5 bar), 4-20mA (i/p to controller)

The controller has an electronic analog input for its PV.

An I/P has a pneumatic output signal.

How does the controller read a pneumatic signal?

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#5
In reply to #3

Re: No Ouput From My Eurotherm Controller

07/23/2015 2:04 PM

On applications that require accurate valve position feedback there is either an on-board valve position monitor included internal to the valve positioner or there is an external valve positioner monitor assembly (optional) that mounts directly on the valve body that has an arm which moves with the valve stem to provide feedback. This device must be physically calibrated to match the valve position to the feedback signal level and polarity.

The only other way to report/display valve position without direct mounted monitoring feedback is to set up a table in the PLC or controller that plots/uses output signal level values in proportional to the valve position from 0 to 100% open. This would be a calculated valve position value which in no way can be accurate due to system dynamics but will work in applications where accuracy is not required. This type of control is often used on domestic heating furnaces which also require fail-safe protective equipment on the burner controls such as timed a flame detector monitor and CO sensors so that valve failure does not violate the integrity and safety of the system.

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#10
In reply to #3

Re: No Ouput From My Eurotherm Controller

09/30/2015 8:30 AM

I was simulating the signals in the lab. I used current injectors to simulate PV and remote setpoint and multimeters to read the 4-20mA outputs. I wired up all these to the controller terminals.

Thanks a lot for helping out. I find you guys very helpful.

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#4

Re: No Ouput From My Eurotherm Controller

07/23/2015 1:57 PM

Given that there is integral action in the controller terms, one of the possibilities is that the controller has been set reverse acting when it should be direct acting, or vice versa. Worth checking out?

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#6

Re: No Ouput From My Eurotherm Controller

07/23/2015 2:46 PM

Please advise the forum what the outcome of the telephone call to Eurotherm was. What were the recommendations forthcoming from that discussion, and what was the result of trying them all?

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#7

Re: No Ouput From My Eurotherm Controller

07/24/2015 4:34 AM

Are you able to manually vary the output (to check the functionality of the module)?

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#11
In reply to #7

Re: No Ouput From My Eurotherm Controller

09/30/2015 8:36 AM

Yeah, it worked in the end. See my general response.

Thanks a lot.

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#8

Re: No Ouput From My Eurotherm Controller

07/27/2015 8:21 AM

Earth to divine; Earth to divine; come in, please!

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#9
In reply to #8

Re: No Ouput From My Eurotherm Controller

09/30/2015 8:22 AM

Hello All and please forgive me for not updating you early enough.

I have taken time to read through the replies and I have learnt a lot from them.

So the problem was with the gain/proportional band setting.

The gain is 40%/bar. This corresponds to 2.5 PB in Engineering units or 50% PB. The controller only has functionality to set the gain in PB and I had incorrectly set it as 2.5 %, instead of 2.5 enginering units.

The response is fine now. I see that it takes roughly 5 minutes (same value as IAT) for the values to go from fully shut to fully open.

Learning point: It is worth checking each controller to see how each defines their parameters. While one uses gain, another might use PB in Engineering Units or as a percentage.

Thanks once again guys.

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#12
In reply to #8

Re: No Ouput From My Eurotherm Controller

09/30/2015 8:38 AM

I got the email. Thanks a lot. You guys are very good here.

Sorry for my late response. The issue appears to have been resolved. Next is to do the the real testing suring SAT.

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