Previous in Forum: Fabricated Plastic Hinge   Next in Forum: Orthographic Drawings
Close
Close
Close
11 comments
Rating: Comments: Nested
Guru
Hobbies - Musician - Engineering Fields - Chemical Engineering - New Member Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member Engineering Fields - Instrumentation Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Moses Lake, WA, USA, Thulcandra - The Silent Planet (C.S. Lewis)
Posts: 4216
Good Answers: 194

Adjustments for Pump with Centrifugal Seals

10/08/2015 7:46 PM

Hi Everyone,

We are in the process of installing a centrifugal pump that uses centrifugal seals. It has been aligned. The techs are experiencing difficulty in adjusting the (I don't know exactly what to call it) so that the shaft turns freely.

Here is a picture:

They are telling me that they are getting no help from the manufacturer. Does anyone have experience with this type of pump? Is there a certain procedure for making the necessary adjustments?

Thanks,

Mike

__________________
"Reason is not automatic. Those who deny it cannot be conquered by it. Do not count on them. Leave them alone." - Ayn Rand
Register to Reply
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive votes to make them "good answers".
Guru

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Eastern Arizona mountains on Route 666 about a mile from God's country
Posts: 1676
Good Answers: 122
#1

Re: Adjustments for Pump with Centrifugal Seals

10/08/2015 8:30 PM

Who is the pump manufacturer and what is the model number?

__________________
They said; "Brain size?" I heard; "Train size?" so I said: "I'll take a small one, thank you."
Register to Reply
Guru
Hobbies - Musician - Engineering Fields - Chemical Engineering - New Member Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member Engineering Fields - Instrumentation Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Moses Lake, WA, USA, Thulcandra - The Silent Planet (C.S. Lewis)
Posts: 4216
Good Answers: 194
#3
In reply to #1

Re: Adjustments for Pump with Centrifugal Seals

10/08/2015 10:22 PM

I don't know yet.

__________________
"Reason is not automatic. Those who deny it cannot be conquered by it. Do not count on them. Leave them alone." - Ayn Rand
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 42355
Good Answers: 1693
#4
In reply to #3

Re: Adjustments for Pump with Centrifugal Seals

10/08/2015 10:35 PM

I've replaced seals on these pumps many times.

There is a spring behind one side of the seal.

It cannot cause binding. The faces of the seals are ceramic. They don't bind.

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 42355
Good Answers: 1693
#2

Re: Adjustments for Pump with Centrifugal Seals

10/08/2015 10:00 PM

Centrifugal pumps have shaft seals made like this.

These seals should not inhibit rotation unless they are improperly installed. They are inside the wetted side of the pump.

Does the motor, and pump, spin if not connected to each other?

Register to Reply
Guru
Hobbies - Musician - Engineering Fields - Chemical Engineering - New Member Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member Engineering Fields - Instrumentation Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Moses Lake, WA, USA, Thulcandra - The Silent Planet (C.S. Lewis)
Posts: 4216
Good Answers: 194
#5
In reply to #2

Re: Adjustments for Pump with Centrifugal Seals

10/08/2015 10:39 PM

Hi Lyn and thanks for the reply,

The motor shaft turns freely disconnected.

The pump shaft would mostly turn freely, but in part of the rotation, it would "catch". The tech was making adjustments using bolts on the "motor end" of the pump (in the photo) trying to eliminate this.

As it stands right now, the techs feel like they have gotten it the best that they can and will try to start it up shortly. This pump is used for transfer and recirculation of a 225ºF ammonium nitrate (AN) solution. There is only a small amount of water so I would more accurately describe it as molten NH4NO3. All of the lines are steam-traced to make sure the AN doesn't freeze in the lines.

When this gets started up, I will let you all know, as well as my findings over the next couple of days, how this specific type of pump works.

__________________
"Reason is not automatic. Those who deny it cannot be conquered by it. Do not count on them. Leave them alone." - Ayn Rand
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 42355
Good Answers: 1693
#7
In reply to #5

Re: Adjustments for Pump with Centrifugal Seals

10/08/2015 10:51 PM

Adjusting the motor shaft cannot cure a problem in the pump.

Register to Reply
Guru
Hobbies - Musician - Engineering Fields - Chemical Engineering - New Member Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member Engineering Fields - Instrumentation Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Moses Lake, WA, USA, Thulcandra - The Silent Planet (C.S. Lewis)
Posts: 4216
Good Answers: 194
#6
In reply to #2

Re: Adjustments for Pump with Centrifugal Seals

10/08/2015 10:44 PM

I think that what I haven't made clear, is that this pump has dynamic seals. These seals engage when the pump is "at speed". Every time the pump is turned off an amount of the pumped liquid leaks from the pump - this is normal operation for this pump.

__________________
"Reason is not automatic. Those who deny it cannot be conquered by it. Do not count on them. Leave them alone." - Ayn Rand
Register to Reply
3
Guru

Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Port Macquarie N.S.W. Australia
Posts: 1071
Good Answers: 225
#8
In reply to #6

Re: Adjustments for Pump with Centrifugal Seals

10/09/2015 3:25 AM

This sounds very much like a Wilfley type dynamic pump seal where the static seal/check valve only comes into contact with the rotating seal when the shaft is stationary.

These seals can leak a small amount of fluid as the pump is stopped in the moments between the repeller (located behind the impeller) becoming ineffective, and the static seal moving forward to contact the rotating seal.

Because the static seal is in contact with the rotating seal when the pump is not running, there is always a rotational resistance felt when turning the shaft by hand.

By the look of the photo, the tech is adjusting the jacking bolts, but this needs to be done correctly. You would normally loosen the main bearing carrier/jacking plate bolts and also backoff the lock nuts on the jacking bolts, then tighten the jacking bolts whilst rotating the shaft by hand until it jams (maintaining even distance between the jacking plate and the pump housing by adjusting each jacking bolt as required).

Tightening the jacking bolts will draw the shaft backwards causing the expeller to come into contact with the back of the pump housing. Measure (with feeler gauges) the resultant gap between the plate and the housing, then loosen the jacking bolts until the plate moves forward far enough for the impeller to jam against the front of the pump housing (you may need to tighten the main bolts to force the plate inwards, keep the gap even at all points), measure the gap again.

This verifies that you have the correct tolerances in the housing. You then add (from memory) ten thou to the last measurement and tighten the jacking bolts to draw the shaft back and create the correct gap between the impeller and the housing. Make sure the measurement is the same at all 3 jack points so that the bearing is running true, and then tighten the lock nuts and main bolts, recheck the gap and that the shaft is not binding on the housing.

Provided the bearings are in good order, any tightness remaining will only be the static seal.

Register to Reply Good Answer (Score 3)
2
Guru

Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Port Macquarie N.S.W. Australia
Posts: 1071
Good Answers: 225
#10
In reply to #8

Re: Adjustments for Pump with Centrifugal Seals

10/09/2015 4:39 AM

I just located a video on the adjustments of these pumps here.

It is essentially as I have said above with the exception that at position 3:18 on the video they say to REMOVE 10 thou from the gauge stack, which I believe to be incorrect as it should be ADDED to the stack to increase the gap by that much, and in fact you can see the tech then increasing the gap in order to insert the gauge stack.

Register to Reply Good Answer (Score 2)
Guru
Hobbies - Musician - Engineering Fields - Chemical Engineering - New Member Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member Engineering Fields - Instrumentation Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Moses Lake, WA, USA, Thulcandra - The Silent Planet (C.S. Lewis)
Posts: 4216
Good Answers: 194
#11
In reply to #10

Re: Adjustments for Pump with Centrifugal Seals

10/09/2015 12:21 PM

Hi spades,

Thank you so much for your reply and spot-on instructions. The tech did get it running - I don't know if he followed your exact procedure, but it was running, sounding normal, and getting a very stable current draw.

I have forwarded your post to him for his enlightenment.

Again thank you and everyone else who has posted here.

Mike

__________________
"Reason is not automatic. Those who deny it cannot be conquered by it. Do not count on them. Leave them alone." - Ayn Rand
Register to Reply
Guru
Hobbies - Musician - New Member United Kingdom - Member - New Member Engineering Fields - Mechanical Engineering - New Member Engineering Fields - Transportation Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: England
Posts: 951
Good Answers: 48
#9

Re: Adjustments for Pump with Centrifugal Seals

10/09/2015 4:18 AM

I believe spades is spot on. I used to deal with pumps with dynamic seals. At that time we used a John Crane type 10TC as the static seal. This was basically a type 10, but with counterweights to pull the seal faces apart once it gets up to speed. When the pump is stopped there will certainly be resistance from the seal when you turn the shaft.

You need to be careful with the jacking screws on the rear bearing cover. These do indeed adjust the position of the impeller, but they are quite often used on pumps with open impellers rather than closed impellers to adjust the clearance between the front of the vanes and the housing. If you pull the impeller too far back you will lose performance/efficiency. Check what type of impeller you have.

Register to Reply
Register to Reply 11 comments

Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive votes to make them "good answers".
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

Holzfeller (1); lyn (3); Mikerho (4); SHOCKHISCAN (1); spades (2)

Previous in Forum: Fabricated Plastic Hinge   Next in Forum: Orthographic Drawings

Advertisement