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SpaceX Oxygen Froze Solid

11/04/2016 7:45 PM

Evidently the problem was that the helium was in a liquid state(-452°F) too cold, and froze the oxygen, which freezes at -362°F....The oxygen is pumped in at -340°F into the tank which holds 3 helium tanks...the helium tanks then further lowered the temperature and turned some of the oxygen solid....They pump the gases in at such low temperatures to increase the density....

Now it would seem to me that there would be some sort of temperature monitoring devices on these fuel and gas tanks and lines, to set off an alarm for over or under temps that could result in catastrophic failure...So where were the safety controls on this process? Still a lot of unanswered questions...

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/05/science/elon-musk-spacex-rocket-launches.html

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#1

Re: SpaceX ...oxygen froze solid

11/05/2016 1:50 AM

. . . . somebody said during the design review THAT couldn't ever happen.

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#2

Re: SpaceX ...oxygen froze solid

11/05/2016 4:21 AM

So, keep your powder dry, and keep your LOX liquid!

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#3
In reply to #2

Re: SpaceX ...oxygen froze solid

11/05/2016 6:33 AM

Jewish oxygen with your bagels?

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#4

Re: SpaceX ...oxygen froze solid

11/05/2016 11:26 AM

..."These tanks hold fluids at temperatures ranging from -325° F to -425° F. The low temperatures introduce large residual stresses in composite components because of the thermal expansion mismatch between the fibers and the resin, which produce microcracks in the composites. Also the strength has to be maintained at cryogenic temperatures. So the interest grows in studying the rate of generation of these microcracks at cryogenic temperatures and its effect on strength of composites. The microcracks in composites may cause leakage of fuels. Permeability is a measure of how easily a given material can be penetrated by a fluid or gas. Hence the study of permeability of composites to space fuels/gases in the cryogenic temperatures is of much importance."...

http://scholarworks.uno.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1169&context=td

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#6
In reply to #4

Re: SpaceX ...oxygen froze solid

11/06/2016 8:56 PM

Maybe the solid oxygen caused a blockage and the spillage of liquid oxygen which reached something combustible.

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#5

Re: SpaceX ...oxygen froze solid

11/05/2016 12:40 PM

Back in the old day of designing experimental systems it was common practice to not put sensors and or safety interlocks on everything until a problem showed up that warranted it.

I'm guessing they followed that procedure.

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#7

Re: SpaceX Oxygen Froze Solid

11/07/2016 1:33 PM

Would it also be possible that the 'relative warmth' of the LOX warmed up the Helium to the point that it's tank ruptured?

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#9
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Re: SpaceX Oxygen Froze Solid

11/07/2016 8:32 PM

This seems like it might be the case the rapid freezing and thawing together with the brittle helium tank and rapid warming of the liquid helium may have caused the helium tank to rupture....A close examination of the carbon fiber tank material may provide clarity....However it would seem a quick fix is not forthcoming....

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#8

Re: SpaceX Oxygen Froze Solid

11/07/2016 3:30 PM

Until we reach the day when we no longer rely upon chemical rockets for launch vehicles, there is always going to a central design issue surrounding handling of liquid oxygen. Mere contact of LOX with most organic materials results in ignition.

How does it not catch fire the inside of carbon fiber tanks? Are they teflon lined. I understand certain problems even exist with LOX and teflon that can result in a fluor-oxygen fire of the carbon backbone of the polymer.

Alternative crazy idea #7:

Use a combination conventional jet engine, with rail gun for initial launch, and can add RATO, as in solid fuel RATO. Once the vehicle reaches critical speed, ramjet takes over, and it is still air-breathing. Getting into orbit requires something else.

How about building up steam pressure until it reaches some pressure-temperature where it is a supercritical fluid, then ejecting it through a rocket nozzle? Alternative is drop back to solid fuel rocket, and that might just be totally inappropriate to the mission at hand.

Another vague possibility is the use of plasma jet propulsion once the outside air pressure (and drag) have been reduced to near nil. Could it be possible to accelerate a steam jet to even higher speeds (and thrust) by using ionization/acceleration?

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