Death of Diesel Vehicles

Actually it is passed as some clever law in the UK. Diesels have been marked for being totally 'gone' on any public road by 2020. In Birmingham, the new 'laws', 'rules from the Eu have made it clear to the city council, to remove all black taxis from the roads or face a £60m fine. A big pow wow took pace last week on this matter in Birmingham.

The taxi owners, (they are all privately owned and run), must change to LPG (gas) at £8000.00 per conversion, or wait until the new electric black taxis is available next year.

It is a serious issue in the UK. Or a money making racket, as normal.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-31823252

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-39001734 Latest news on diesels 17 Feb 2017

http://metro.co.uk/2017/02/18/old-diesel-car-drivers-to-be-charged-extra-10-to-drive-in-london-6456703/

Taxis link; http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-38990253

How is it that what you write diverges so strongly from the links you provide? Are you really getting this confused, or have you caught the 'emotions trump factual accuracy' fever?

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There is nothing in your links indicating a ban on diesel passenger cars in the UK, much less a ban on all diesel vehicles.

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The only mention of someone suggesting a ban was the mayor of Paris suggesting diesels be banned from Paris by 2020. Not any actual rules, just a suggestion by the mayor. I doubt the British have suddenly become so keen on emulating whimsical comments of a Parisian mayor.

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There is mention of levying taxes on OLD diesels driving in new clean zones. Not new clean diesels, just old diesels.

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Do you harbor some ill will toward up to date diesel technology?

The shift from gasoline to diesel in Europe began 25 years ago and is still trending in that direction today....

...as you can see the US is by far the leading buyer for electric cars....and the ev has less than a 1% market share of new cars sold here....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plug-in_electric_vehicles_in_the_United_States

We need to take note of the Councillors and Politicians who promote that nonsense and vote them out when next elections roll around.

This whole topic immediately went south with the mention of death "throws" [sic].

Actually, your comment made the whole discussion worthwhile. I was ignorant to 'throes' prior to this.

Thanks for the upgrade.

Maybe he meant death blows.....

Haaaaiiiiiiaaahhh....!

Sure, death blows....

According to Google, there are no results for the word ( sic) , Haaaaiiiiiiaaahhh !

In this image, the correct word would be, Ai Ya. ( Pronounced : Hi Ya. / The " i " in Hi is a long vowel sound & the " a " in Ya carries the same sound as the " aw " in the English word " raw ".

Although not as dramatic in expression as, Haaaaiiiiiiaaahhh !

Yet when spelled correctly, the word and it's meaning can be used in a multitude of contexts.

It's not a word, it's a sound denoting the raising of the chi....

Conversation over heard at Chery motors dealership:

Chinese man # 1 : I hear you trade in your diesel car for an electric car ??

Chinese man # 2 : Hi Ya !

Actually THROWS is the correct word for this topic. I.E. diesel vehicles have drastically reduced in value due to this new regulation. Currently 2nd hand vehicle prices is at a low. With this regulation on the go, no one will upgrade their vehicles, as the upgrade cost versus the value of the vehicle is not economically viable.

Currently a 2nd hand diesel in the UK can be purchased for as little as £200.00.-£500.00. Hence, a majority of people cannot afford the upgrade or will not upgrade, and will consequently scrap the vehicle. (Throw it away as scrap).

The same can be said for any cars anywhere.....but you get what you pay for...

https://www.gumtree.com/cars/uk/diesel

Once again, what new regulation? Have any links that actually lend support to what you are claiming?

What is your angle here? Are you short some diesel tech companyand trying to finagle some negative market sentiment to you benefit?

'So how is this death of diesel vehicles affecting other countries where you reside? Will it change your daily life enough to swap for electric?'

I think my question was clear as mud and had very little to do with spoon feeding. Actually I have nothing what so ever to do with the fuel or diesel engine market. And No, nothing to do with marketing or any such idiotic notion. A simple question to discover if this idea is being proposed anywhere else in the world.

I can understand your confusion so I stated the question for you in italics above.

And, if I could find something more pertinent, besides what is bandied about on the news channels, I would certainly post it.

I have never accepted as valid the proposition that "there are no stupid questions", so merely forming your assertion as a question doesn't provide immunity from queries about substantiation.

Also, you have made clear statements not phrased as questions that lack any support in the links you provided.

Mine is not a query about what your statements mean, so much as a query into what combination of factors leads someone to shamelessly misrepresent the story while linking contradictory articles and to neglect opportunity to correct such deviance even after problems have been noted in detail.

What gives?

Ah Begeez, Look again, can you not see the fine print in Samarian hieroglyphs, just off set and between the lines to right of centre.

Yep just there, left and scan, see it?

You mean death throes. Throws are a ball game or gaming or pottery term. None of those here.

I get close to 700 miles on a standard tank of diesel. When an electric car can match that, I'll definitely think seriously about getting one.

Meanwhile, I will be keeping an eye on hybrids, although they have almost twice as many parts prone to failure.

I've had a number of trips to Europe. It has been at least a decade since I last drove a non-diesel there.

TDI is a great engine....too bad the aren't selling new in the US anymore.

Nope.

I am thinking, to couple one of this (engine mounted) near future

How about a fuel cell that uses diesel as feedstock? Then you've got diesel-electric, best of both worlds.

Looked promising some time ago....from 2010

Power plants: These two prototype fuel-cell stacks from SAFCell generate electricity from hydrogen, even if it’s derived from diesel fuel and is contaminated with as much as 20 percent carbon monoxide. Both are made of 10 connected fuel cells. The small one–measuring three inches in diameter–generates 30 watts, and the larger one 200 watts.

https://www.technologyreview.com/s/421277/cheap-diesel-powered-fuel-cells/

http://www.safcell.com/what-is-a-safc

http://www.safcell.com/news/

Interesting! ...but if it hasn't generated news since 2010, there must have been some unexpected obstacles. Perhaps they couldn't find a cheap enough catalyst.

Well the obvious fact they couldn't manage to use the right length of bolts for their design and instead used ones way too long with a load of washers to make them work for me makes for a compelling indication they weren't putting too much effort into refining their design before showing it off to the public.

Was either going to the hardware store and spending $5 for ones that were the right length or at least cutting off the excess on these that much of a problem to overcome?

Much of the hype is about the ultra-fine particulates and Nitrogen Oxides & the health issues they create, even modern derv burners with exhaust filters and all the tech still emit some.

The UK has a major problem, most large cities with pollution problems are also major transport hubs, the 'greens' see attacking 'private' car ownership as the easier option, the transport lobby is huge and co-ordinated. The city I'm in has an airport, a sea port with huge containerised through put onto both rail and roads, the ships often don't use shore-side power leaving their gen-sets running.

The pollution from the 'donkey' engines often run on red (no road fuel tax) dirty diesel on ~1 million chiller box trucks, often running most of the time throughout europe, as they do even if not carrying anything that needs to be kept cold/frozen like farm machinery (yes I've seen that with my own eyes), if running on cleaner 'white' derv is said to equal 56 million diesel cars in normal use, so where the real problem?

Than you, as this was where I was going with the question.

Shipping and the heavy goods road transport, which is prolific in the UK, causes more problem than private owned vehicles. Yet, I see nothing or hear nothing about curbing their pollution.

Is this just another EU grab for easy money or a serious push to have electric vehicles only, in city areas?

Is this notion happening elsewhere outside the EU and UK.

It's a bit of both, they pushed diesel cars for their greater fuel efficiency AND lower CO2 emissions, road diesel was ~10% cheaper before the mass uptake of diesel cars in the UK, now it's ~5% more expensive, though as road fuel is a multiple tax commodity with taxes charged on taxes and a major income stream for the gov't, international haulage firms from Europe working into the UK fit huge fuel tanks and refuel in France before crossing the channel as derv is much cheaper (less taxed) there.

The 'greens' have been pursuing an agenda in the EU, setting ever lower limits, which in some ways is no bad thing, though the VW emissions fiasco has proven unless every vehicle is tested in the real world the numbers are meaningless. They hold little real power in the UK, most people see them as killjoy environMENTALists and won't vote for them, so they have been using EU pollution rules as a stick to beat both the gov't and the average 'man in the street' with.

Now the European Commission, driven by the 'greens' (and as a punitive attack following the Brexit vote to leave in all probability) is threatening to take the UK Gov't to the European court of justice over it's failure to meet the reduced pollution limits, so from April all car VED (tax) classes will be increasing in cost, from some low pollution cars at £0 per annum first year of use and £40 per year thereafter will be going up to £140 and £420 respectively. A nice little earner and it'll be enforced with vigor.

Though a number of Euro cities now ban vehicles over a certain age, require a pollution sticker (and the 'tax' cost of buying it) on newer vehicles, London has it's 'congestion' and 'low emissions zone' charges and has effectively banned a lot of older vehicles from London, other UK cities are following this, as much for extra income as anything else. The true source of industrial and commercial transport pollution will remain virtually unchanged.

That is pretty much what I though and gathered with the UK and EU. Just another money making racket. Thanks for the info.

http://www.nature.com/news/pollution-three-steps-to-a-green-shipping-industry-1.19369

https://www.cleanenergyfuels.com/press-room/clean-energy-provides-bunkering-services-and-fuel-to-worlds-first-lng-powered-container-ships-adds-trucking-transit-and-refuse-customers-grows-with-others/

No effect here locally. We love our diesels. Also, a relatively high percentage of passenger vehicles sold here are in the SUV and bakkies (pickup trucks or utes to the rest of the world), and their fuel consumption is horrendous in petrol format, diesels are about 50% or more lighter on fuel, especially at the speeds we uh sometimes drive..

And I suspect that here, as in the rest of the world, most logistics on land are powered by heave trucks - diesel powered ones at that. Last I checked in Europe, trucks and barges were diesel-powered, so no, one thing you can be sure of is that come 2020, diesel will still be very much in use in Europe.

Ok, so now I go for electric. (Uh, actually no I won't 'cause there are no charging station here and how do I do the 1400km to Cape Town in 14hrs without charging?) Anyway, now I'm with it! Cool! Green! (Choose your tick-box.) Except, you need to charge it. And currently, most of that lovely juice is from coal-fired power plants, not the cleanest form of energy. Eventually we'll get it from less polluting sources, but not by 2020. Just check the our Highveld (where the bulk of the coal-fired power plants are) on a winter's morning when the temperature inversion layer keeps all the pollution nicely close to the ground, cough-cough-cough. Because, damn it, everyone is now charging their vehicles at home at night when the sun refuses to shine, and peak-shifting technology is still a tad expensive. Oh, and to build all the green energy generation systems requires you to move the raw materials to a factory of some sort. With a diesel-powered truck...

I rather suspect that regulations will become stricter, for light and heavy vehicles, and as always, the motor industry will bitch and moan and then find solutions until newer technologies catches up in price and practicality.

Leave my diesel alone!

From what I have noted from some comments, this move is limited to the UK and some Eu cities, and another form of obtaining financial support to a ailing Union to bolster its financial woes.

I noted in an article that the pollution levels in some cities have been attributed to causing alzheimer's disease which was linked to the diesel vehicles. I could possibly agree with their findings, as there are few roads in the UK that don't carry a constant stream of traffic. Very few open areas and a great deal of vehicles, and more being added on a daily basis.

It does puzzle though, why the UK and EU countries still run diesel buses in cities when they could be running hydrogen cells or electric as they do in many other countries. Sweden runs electric and biofuel (rape seed), Adelaide runs hydrogen buses, and I will say this, Adelaide is probably the cleanest city for air. So I do question the ban on diesel for Joe Public when particularly London could have been cleaning air pollution long ago with more efficient public transport systems rather than waiting until now.

I realize you have ignored earlier requests for links supporting your assertion about UK and parts of EU banning private diesel passenger cars, so I don't hold much hope for that request.

The assertion linking 'diesel vehicles' to 'causing alzheimer's', is a new (for this post) claim. As such, I have some hope you might provide a link....one that actually supports the claim you make. On second though, whatever link you think relevant will do. No need for me to get too demanding.

Let me politely correct you, not MY claims but claims from the NHS, An Taisce,and a few others. And as you seem to be void of checking any data yourself or researching, I have provided a link for you. Ye, I am a nice person.....at times..

http://www.antaisce.org/articles/diesel-fumes-linked-to-alzheimer%E2%80%99s

http://dieselfuelinjections.com/view/134-190973.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2547008/Can-car-exhaust-fumes-cause-dementia-Asthma-Heart-attacks-Cancer-Even-diabetes-Why-experts-fear-traffic-pollution-linked-list-health-problems.html

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/03/080311075339.htm

No doubt that will keep you amused for a while. And lead you to further investigation on your own. Shall I look forward to your further comments and your amazement with the outside worlds going-ons? I shall hold my breath!

No. Until you clarify, they are just your claims.

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I do want to extend a congratulations to you for an excellent job linking support for your claims. Not only do you have several sources, but the linked articles do actually support the claims you made. Good job.

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....perhaps, now with confidence that you can accomplish such a task, you can use that as a model and provide some support for your earlier claims about private citizen diesel passenger cars being banned in the UK?

Here's a link for you to follow https://foe.online-news.org.uk/prod/jan2017/quiz.html

These are just statements, just numbers thrown out. Any proof or back up will be needed for that to be believed. It appears to fall under the category of scaremongering as most of the things Al Gore says.

Is that your picture, sir?

Given the pollution monitoring stations around this city (Southampton) regularly showing high levels of particulates and NOx, and fellow asthmatics living in the city having issues I don't, and I live literally on the side of the M27 motorway, I think there is more to it than simply scaremongering.

As I've commented before, the most badly polluted places are industrial/transport hubs, around Southampton we have lots of industry, including oil refining, the docks, the air port, plus the diesel hauled road and rail traffic associated with them.

The cities road network is a mess that grew out organically following the path of least resistance from the Castle to the various hamlets and villages that now form the city. The City installed an 'integrated' traffic light control system in the 1970's which has grown and should a traffic incident occur on the M27 around the city is set into 'go even slower' mode, which add's to the time vehicles are sat running at their least efficient and dirtiest, and nothing can flow any faster than the slowest diesel bus as you cannot pass the bus when it's at a stop due to the built out stops, even if the roads are quiet. Thus more pollution than the wind can carry away.

Joined up thinking, in which removing older diesel vehicles would play a part, cleaning up industrial activities, enforcing shore-side power use, investing in clean public transport and getting rid of artificial delays would all have a positive effect, but the political will is lacking, as is funding, so hitting the private motorist, as favoured by the 'green' lobby is an easy 'look we're doing something' solution.

Re: Death of Diesel Vehicles

Everybody knows that smoking isn't good for you!

https://www.pollutionsolutions-online.com/news/air-clean-up/16/breaking-news/how-does-londonrsquos-underground-pollution-compare-to-its-traffic/41752?utm_source=ps&utm_medium=ebulletin&utm_term=air-clean-up&utm_content=February&utm_campaign=breaking-news

And more Southampton specific

https://www.pollutionsolutions-online.com/news/air-clean-up/16/breaking-news/should-we-be-more-concerned-about-cruise-ships/41716

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/jan/08/ports-pollution-cruising-ships-freight-sea

Okay, time to learn to use the link function in your comments....

Above where you type text for a new comment, a row or rows of symbols for the various editor functions can be seen.

The fifth symbol counting from the right ( after the B I U S and a faint vertical line) that looks like a diagonally tilted figure 8 with an additional like connecting the centers of the two circular portions of the 8....or like a chain of three links; provides access to the link function.

Select that button when you want to put links to other pages in your comment.

Agreed, except that it is counting from the left.

Oops. Serves me right for assuming a pedantic tone.