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Maintenance Planner

05/25/2017 9:03 AM

I have a panel that is 400 volts 50 HZ which controls motors, drives and controls. Are plant is feed at 480 volts 60 HZ. I would like to know if I feed the panel with are 480 volts 60 HZ will it work or will it create problems

Thanks

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#1

Re: Maintenance Planner

05/25/2017 9:17 AM

More than likely, yes.

You would need to analyze how well the various components will work with the higher voltage and frequency. We cannot do that for you. You may need to transform the voltage level supplied.

From a legal standpoint, this equipment is more than likely not "legal" for use in your jurisdiction. You need to check with the local AHJ to see what you need to do to get the equipment "approved" for use.

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#3
In reply to #1

Re: Maintenance Planner

05/25/2017 10:05 AM

I just noticed that my "More than likely, yes." is rather ambiguous. I meant it to say that "Yes, it more than likely would be a problem".

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#2

Re: Maintenance Planner

05/25/2017 9:57 AM

No-one here can say. After all, the forum knows nothing about the insulation capabilities, the method of construction, the equipment within it, the electrical standards utilised, the nature of the equipment connected to this panel, and so-on and so-forth.

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#4

Re: Maintenance Planner

05/25/2017 12:11 PM

<...will it create problems...>

On the basis that "a problem is a puzzle with no solution" (- Anon), and the abilities of those solving those puzzles are completely unknown to the forum other than the implications of those inherent in the question on this topic, the answer is a qualified "yes".

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#5

Re: Maintenance Planner

05/25/2017 1:16 PM

Should be OK, but you need to reassess the amperage, as a higher voltage will draw less amperage...

http://www.50hz60hz.com/400v-50hz-equipment-on-480v-60hz-power-system.html

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#6

Re: Maintenance Planner

05/25/2017 1:32 PM

Just one consideration: does anything in that equipment critically depend on the line frequency as a timebase?

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#7

Re: Maintenance Planner

05/25/2017 2:09 PM

Is it possible you will absolutely no problem using a higher voltage and frequency, yes it is possible. Is it possible you will have catastrophic problems, yes it is possible that things could ignite and the fire can spread to multiple buildings. Is it probable that only minor problems will happen, I guess this will be a 50/50 toss up to be true. Unfortunately one of those 50% results is is either of the first two scenarios. But any hazardous technology engineer that accepts 50/50 odds that something might go wrong is a danger to everyone.

Hire an engineer, purchase new equipment for your new location or purchase suitable equipment to change voltage and frequencies.

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#8

Re: Maintenance Planner

05/25/2017 10:47 PM

Control transformer and cotactor coil in the 50 Hz panel will be of 50 Hz. Using at 60 Hz the output voltage of control transformer will be more, check contactor coil voltage range. Check if any frequency sensitive other items are there.

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#9

Re: Maintenance Planner

05/26/2017 5:52 AM

400V 50Hz is in general european, 480V 60Hz American. Are you planning to import the panel to the US? If you are, you’re heading for a load of trouble with type approval.

A friend of mine who builds bespoke control panels here in the UK has given up exporting to the US because of all the red tape involved.

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#10

Re: Maintenance Planner

05/26/2017 12:57 PM

Does the manufacturer of the panel not know? - JHF

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#11

Re: Maintenance Planner

06/09/2017 12:03 AM

Andre,

You have probably started to see that this forum includes people from all over the world. Good answers will come if you give a lot more information when you post the question.

Most motors work well when the ratio of voltage to frequency is constant. So, a 50Hz motor at 400V will have a very similar magnetic response if it is run at 60Hz and 480V. That is the basis for how most drives control speed of a motor--their output voltage ramps up/down as a ratio of their output frequency---at least until you reach the point where you exceed the incoming line frequency.

You will have to find the answers to your question by looking at the various components of the panel and the equipment it controls item-by-item. The answers you have already seen include portions of this:

  • Are the contactors and relays rated for operation at only 50Hz or are they also rated for operation at 60Hz (and at what voltage to their coils)?
  • The control transformer, and you probably have one or more, may already have taps to allow you to change the input voltage from 400 to 480V; if not, it may have secondary taps to allow you to change the output voltage. Many panels with an European heritage include transformers with multiple taps to allow their use in different countries. Study the topic of "turns ratio" if you don't know about this. You may have to supply a different control transformer.
  • Are the drives rated for the higher input voltage (many are but some may not be)?
  • Are the motors rated for use at 480/60? If so, their nameplate currents will be lower. This means that the overload relays (or the electronic overload setting on the drives) will have to be adjusted/changed/reset. At the same time, you may have to change some of the fuses or circuit protectors.
  • Is the equipment that the motors operate capable of running at the higher speeds? This is particularly true of pumps and fans because a 20% increase in speed will more than double the horsepower that the fan or pump is drawing. If the equipment is belt or chain drive you can change the pulley or sprocket sizes to give a driven shaft speed that is the same as it would have been with the originals running from a 50Hz motor.
  • If the motors are only rated for use at 400/50 and they are on a drive, you can reprogram the drive for a maximum output frequency of 50Hz, but this requires some reading of the drive manuals.
  • If you have DC power supplies, make sure they can handle the higher input voltage!

In many plants the "Authority Having Jurisdiction" or AHJ as referred to in one of the other answers may be the plant maintenance supervisor or even the plant manager, and not some well-qualified (we hope) inspector. You may be put into the uncomfortable position of having to "sign-off" on the use of this panel in your plant. If so, please make sure that you have documented carefully your evaluation and any changes you have had to make. Make sure that this documentation includes changes (mark-ups) to any wiring diagrams and manuals that came with the panel.

If the panel has a label from a testing laboratory, such as UL, CSA, VDE, or many others, depending on its country of origin, any significant changes you are making will probably void this label. Are you ready for the responsibility this brings?

If you have questions, get qualified and competent help.

--J Mueller

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