Electro-Magnetic Pulse Protection

Faraday shields are built into military equipment. Civilian gear will suffer, and this will vary a lot as to how they are built. Wire that enter gear can act as conduits for ultra short peak pulses as the pulse crosses the conductors, the angle of interception will vary the pulse.

Enough a grounded housing

Do you know how long it would take a cruise missile, if they had one, to reach the US??

4 to 7k miles @ 550 mph....we have jets that can travel much faster than that, like 3 times faster than that...

They don't have cruise missiles that I have heard of, but what they have been launching appears to be simple ballistic missiles (if anything about those is simple).

And that's just it. So far their top end tech is barely equal to what The US and other developed countries had 50+ years ago.

Plus it's heavily dependent on old and well know to be volatile/temperamental fuel and like key operating system component designs which are known to have a fairly exponential rate of failure the further their operating range is pushed.

That by default strongly implies the odds of a single or even several missiles launched in our direction ever getting this far without failing on their own is extremely low and even if they did get close they still have a incredibly advanced and proven missile defense net they would have to get through as well.

It's not impossible but for all practical purposes it's highly improbable simply due the low tech old school methods plus extremely limited financial and general technological resources they are working with.

Realistically they are far more likely to shoot their own eye out first in any attempt.

The danger really is if NK managed to put one or more of their missiles aboard some freighter that they could get near the US coastline, and somehow launch it in close proximity. If it's nearer than what our ABMs could intercept in time (which recent tests over the Pacific have shown they can do for remotely launched missiles), they could set off a nuclear explosion / EMP device over at least a portion of the country.

What freighter do they have that we will let anywhere near even Japan?

We do and we could probably knock their missile out of the air. What happens if the nuke is detonated at a low enough elevation that the radioactive material drifts to the US?

Then we suffer the same fate as those living through similar exposure from atmospheric test detonations of atomic weapons decades ago....though I doubt North Korea has the capability to match the number and power of those tests.

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The results of Starfish prime showed that using a nuclear weapon for EMP was not that effective, the danger from contamination really isn't that significant....the largest threat is psychological and that can have effects without ever having to detonate.

When I read James' link on the test, particularly the section titled "After effects", I got the feeling that there was a lot of damage from the radiation. They said there were still traces of the radiation six years later.

I'm not an expert on this, by any means. What I do know is that we did have a fairly large amount of damage to the low orbit satellites - flash forward to today and we have so many more satellites and I'm not sure they're protected against radiation from a nuclear explosion, though I could be wrong.

Having worked on the ALCM the point is a ground hugging cruise missile. This defeats normal radar. The system was known as TERACOM. Speed was never a factor.

Same can be said for the Exocet missiles back in the late 80's to early 90's, except they did travel at high speed. They were difficult to knock down, because of the high speed and many environmental factors; glassy sea, birds in the path, etc. Though the "new" concept in that era was to do a vertical launch and let the missile gain altitude, then cruise at high altitude, then drop down on the target at a very, very fast speed. I remember it was much more difficult to knock a missile out of the sky if it used the high altitude trajectory. Not sure how it is now.

Maybe they plan to send dozens of them at once, like the Russian Katyusha ( Stalin's Organ ).

I don't think they have enough to try something like it. All I am saying, "If they feel froggy, go ahead and take that jump".

The fact that NK does not actually have any proven viable missile or EMP weapon technology that fits on one that could deliver such a weapon to the US is pretty good protection system at this point.

another is the fact our assorted present missile defence systems for such an long range attack is also pretty damn good too.

Beyond that is the reality that if NK was to launch such a weapon at us that if we didn't knock them on their ass permanently for it China and or Russia might just to make sure they don't send anything their way either.

If you're close enough to see the bright flash, you simply bend over and kiss your ass good-bye! No need to worry about the EMP

Nah. Not really. Lots of observers witnessed starfish prime, lived to tell about the bright long lasting light and didn't even come down with radiation sickness.

They won't ever get that far. I guess you could set up some form of news alert to wake you up, or even program it to open your mains, and that would take care of it, AFAICT.

Seems there are far more myths in play than most realize.

EMP myths

It appears that given today's tech and its general design a lot of our electronics would likely survive just fine. Size of circuits and conductors matter a lot and most of our modern electronics are built around tiny designs with inherently well thought out surge protection just for handling normal day to day static discharge and like events which is basically what the electromagnetically induced voltage surge of an EMP is.

The utility power grid would likely get the worst of it but in all practical terms even then the actual points of damage would mostly be at earth grounding points at substations and surge arresters which are not terribly difficult to repair beyond the time factor.

Most vehicles would still run just fine and most smaller power sources like portable generators would survive too.

So, no. It would not be the apocalyptic end of our modern electronics based world where every electronic and electrical device is stone dead and unrecoverable afterward. Just an annoying interruption of services for most.

I tend to agree. With sufficient warning, the grids could all call for a quick general trip offline, then black start reboot afterward. It would take some kind of automatic alert system to be in place, because the telephone traffic to/from load dispatch centers would be crazy at that time.

They could employ the same over-the-top, barely grounded in the realm of science pseudoscience fantasy based measures you see in Hollywood movies to counter the threat.

Seriously thou, in my opinion based on actual real world physics and technology available to North Korea they don't even have the ability to deliver such a payload to the required altitude at a specific target in the US, and even if they did the damage would be very localised and of small inconvenience (as in minor weather storm damage inconvenience).

<personal opinion based political comments follow>

There is no real threat here, only posturing. The effect would be like slapping Trump in the face with a glove, a statement (dangerously bordering on an official declaration of war if you will) that would give America the globally-seen justification to attack.

Given the current political climate I would put forward that this is exactly what America wants, justification to go to war (China, were still cool right?). I would also go as far as saying that America needs another war to help boost its economy, and given the target I would be ok with this.

If the people of any country on this planet need (nay deserve) liberating it would be North Korea in my opinion.

Have you ever actually read the accounts of U. S. nuclear warhead tests in the ionosphere?

There were some very serious disturbances, even back then.

Starfish_Prime is one example.

We do not take these threats lightly. Any further hostile actions by NK will be justification for very disproportionate response by the US.

Yes, but again in my opinion NK doesn't have the capability to produce and deliver a large nuclear payload to the US (delivery being the bigger of the obstacles for them, even if say some country gave them a suitable device).

Even if they did, what then? A one time single weapon attack from a rogue terrorist group or individual is one thing, but an attack traced back to a recognised country where there can be no doubt it was government sanctioned, well you cannot easily hide a country from retribution.

Obviously people need to take threats by foreign governments VERY seriously, regardless of how absurd or how much of a bluff they may be.

Read James' linked article and you can imagine the potential damage if Rocket Man blows up a nuke in the upper atmosphere.

Which people? The ones being threatened, (United States, and allies), or the ones living under Kin Jong Un? Somebody needs to pop a cap in that maniac before it is too late for NK.

Good read! The results of the nuclear tests are something we need to consider - yes, our satellites could be disabled and we have a lot more now vs 1962.

"(China, were still cool right?)."

I'm no political strategy expert but pretty much every non liberal leftist agenda poltical analyst seems to be pretty confident that if NK fires first the whole worlds just going to step back and watch us wipe them out.

A few have even speculated that it's not impossible that China might fire on them before we do or if they fire on us join in in the retaliation. Same views with Russia.

As much as the short term political tensions would go, it seems that the general view is that the long term peace/amicable cooperation between the three big players on the world stage it could bring would be worth it simply due to the sort of weak joint management concept of all three having a say in how NK moves forward from there since potentially there would be a load of high value world market demand natural resources to deal with developing.

Don't know really but I rather doubt much will come of it anyway.

Yes its easy to be an armchair intelligence analyst armed with a beer in one hand and the power of hindsight in the other.

China will have their own agenda, but I think they would back the US if it comes down to it, potentially even going as far as military support with a land grab agenda on the table.

Regardless of what NK says they don't have many friends.

China has a snake(NK) in it's grasp, it knows this. It also knows that China is not a communist system any more, no matter how re-visionary some recent non elected party members become, they know that they do not want to kill the goose that capitalism is. I suspect that Trump gently massaged the neck of the goose (US trade volume) and that this produced the recent actions against NK businesses. China also knows it has to change NK, leadership etc., unless they reform.

Well I think that most in the area are envisioning a reunification of North and South Korea, at least South Korea and Japan are, and we, the US, will likely back that endeavor....North Korea has vast untapped resources, a lot of deals to be made with partnering concerns that merely want access to the goods rather than possession of the real estate...The big players know that acquisition of new territory that they have no historic claim to is, or would be, fraught with punishing sanctions from, and repercussions from, pretty much everybody else...The problem is that the North Korean people are so removed from reality as the rest of the world knows it, that the transition will be chaotic and painful, it could take many years for stability to surface, perhaps an entire generation...It would be so much better if the transition could be done from within.....that is why military action is indeed the very last resort....

Sadly it's less about reunification and more about cult-style deprogramming. In my opinion the country is run on control methods less resembling a dictatorship and more a cult. A literal cult, with a god figure and everything.

I really don't see any realistic hope of internal change with NK unless something massive occurs to trigger it. I am even a little concerned this could turn into a massive Jonestown repeat for the innocent population if handled poorly.

I saw this show years ago. If you want an insight into the NK people, watch it. You will be shocked! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AlJUGZPanB8

Your definition of a cult is spot on! The video shows a reporter in NK filming cataract surgery and the response from the residents. I couldn't believe it - this is happening in the 21st century???? The video is about a decade old - Nat Geo.

That's rather where I would prefer to see thing go. Turn NK over to SK management and let them deal with fine details since they have the closest ties and best chances of reprogramming the NK population with the least fight and fuss.

I don't think it would take too long for China to learn to accept SK influences sitting on their border compared to what they have sitting there now. Lesser of two evils by their views and the lesser ones also technologically and socially advanced enough to understand the concept of the joint economic benefits of working together that the vast mineral wealth of NK would carry for both.

I think the people reprogramming factor would be the worst issue to deal with but I half they might adapt fairly fast once they saw their new governing parties bringing huge economic and social infrastructure improvements to their front doors. Pretty hard to hate someone and something that's making your life vasty better instead of worse. (unless they are diehard liberals)

TCM, I think China doesn't want SK on their border. I also think they want the wealth of minerals and metals in NK. China drove up the price of copper, steel, iron, etc. If they had NK's resources, they wouldn't need to buy as much on the open market.

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Anyone in the world should be exceedingly proud to have SK as a national neighbor.

We could see an explosion in commerce the likes of what the world has never witnessed.

SK has done a phenomenal job with technology and manufacturing since the early 2000's. SK had a terrible union problem and quality wasn't that good, but they fixed it. Think about a 2000 Kia or Hyundai. Not a well made car.

Think about who makes the best appliances, Samsung. And I'll take an LG fridge, washer or dryer over a US brand. Samsung is one of the leading cell phone companies. Kia and Hyundai have vastly improved and they're on the heels of Nissan. Though I've never been, I've heard that Seoul has high tech just like Tokyo.

I think China would love to have SK as their neighbor, but at the existing border, not at the current NK/China border.

China isn't going to sit back and watch SK take over - after we decimate NK's military.

Also, take a look at a map of the area. NK - China border is huge. China doesn't want SK as their next door neighbor.

I think war is inevitable. Rocket Man won't stop - whether it's his ego or he's crazy. And we're not going to sit back and watch.

Resources? Are we talking coal? Or just the deep smoldering molten slag hole that will be left after we take care of business in NK?

Your Land Grab comment is very true. I believe this is the main reason we haven't gone into NK. I believe Trump is pissed and he would love to give the go ahead to our troops, BUT you have to consider the end game.

When we win, which we will, what happens?

1. China and SK will want NK. How do you divide it? Will they be happy if we split NK?

2. Until the split, we'll need to occupy NK. This leads to a few unknowns.

3a. Are the NK people loyal to their Fearless Leader and what kinds of trouble can we expect?

3b. Even if the NK people are not loyal, they are afraid to show any tiny bit of not being loyal.

3c. The NK people have been fed so much propaganda that they may not believe the US has taken over.

3d. The NK people may have been trained in the military - we don't know. They may know how to fight us when we come into their villages.

3e. They may fight hard, because they're doing it for their Fearless Leader.

4. Our economy is pretty extended and we'll be headed for a recession soon. What better way to keep the economy humming than a war.

5. Even if a warhead doesn't make it to us, it could still cause a lot of damage if it blows up on the way.

6. Stall tactic in effect. We're not ready for a nuclear attack on Hawaii, so we may need to stall to get ourselves ready.

7. If we get China pissed at us, what happens to our business relationship?

8. If we get SK pissed at us, where will we get our new Samsung and LG products.

9. Will Hyundai and Kia still honor their 10 year/100k mile powertrain warranty?

10. Will we get new Samsung Galaxy phones - the ones that don't blow up?

There are a lot of variables. Definitely more than I listed.

What is a non liberal leftist? And what is their agenda?

known liberal leftist. It's a typo. I'm guessing a missed a letter it autocorrected to non and I didn't catch it in the proofread.

No worries! You had me worried for a second.

A nonliberal leftist would be someone who feels the state should be in charge of and responsible for the development and welfare of its citizens....retirement, health care, education, etc, and who opposes ultimate liberty for the citizens, presumably on the grounds that citizens are not to be trusted with their own care.

I don't think NK real estate will be worth much after 2018. Who would want to buy a stinking, smoking, hole in the earth? Someone with a thermal energy system that could tap into the molten ruins?

Siemens and IDS partner offer electromagnetic engineering design capabilities in Simcenter

http://www.designworldonline.com/siemens-and-ids-partner-offer-electromagnetic-engineering-design-capabilities-in-simcenter/

You could maybe run a simulation...

I think that it is more worthwhile to be afraid of the shock wave and radiation pollution.

Maybe, but there again, we aim to please. You aim too please. LOL

You're right on the mark. It's doubtful they'll land a nuke in the continental US, but they could blow up one in the higher atmosphere (James has a great link to a 1962 nuke test) or they could blow it up in the lower atmosphere and have the fallout drift to the US mainland. Japan had a similar plan of launching balloons and letting them drift to the US during WWII. I read that a thousand or so were sent and many did land on our mainland.

It's impossible. Our air defense system will destroy the rocket during take-off. No one wants war. If this does not work out, then World War III may begin.

I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones.

ArtElektrik,

I'm curious.

You say, "Our air defense system will destroy the rocket during take-off" and yet you, "live and work in Russia".

What do you mean by, "Our air defense system"? Would that be Russia's air defense system, or the USA system?

Another point of curiosity is, why would a, "power system design engineer" not already know the difference between a switch and a contact?

Please explain.

Our - it is Russia.

I incorrectly translated the question. I thought I was right - difference between the circuit breaker and a contactor.

One would have to know that the rocket has the nuke on it. Each of the "test" runs that NK has done could've had a nuke on it, yet we didn't destroy it on take off. We have no idea which one will have the nuke - that's the problem.

Pretty sure the only casualty from a Japanese attack that occurred in the continental US was from one of those baloons that landed in a park and killed some picknickers some time later.

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The EMP threat and the radiation threat from upper atmosphere detonatio are a bit overblown. Starfish Prime was a 1.4 MT yield, which I doubt NK is up to producing in launchable form. The government was underwhelmed at the utility for weapons purposes of upper atmosphere detonation with the results of Starfish Prime.

Yes, they were underwhelmed (probably a good thing). I would hate to see if they did a test such as that, then they were overwhelmed (really) by the outcome!

That has happened.

Castle Bravo test definitely overwhelmed expectations, yielding 250% of the expected. 6MT yield was predicted, expected and planned for. ~15MT was the actual yield....turns out for lithium, not just Li6 but also Li7 contributes significant energy on the fusion side and contributes significantly to the neutron population further completing possible fission reactions.

Electronic ignition went out on the riding lawn mower today. I blame NK. They must have micro nuked me with a localized EMP while I had my back turned.

Did you say "contact" before trying to start the thing? Try again...

Whatever countermeasures are available are in place, or they are not. Nobody's going to scurry about and spend billions on hardening our infrastructure over some empty threats.

Two playground bullies are kicking sand on each others shoes. That's about it. NK's neighbors have too much at stake to let this get out of hand.

Even if NK launched something toward us it would never get here, if it even got in the air without exploding.

Lyn, what do you think about the threat from blowing up a nuke at high altitude? I don't know much about our commercial and GPS satellites. I wonder how well protected they are against ionizing radiation and charged particles in their orbit. James had a very interesting link to starfish prime.

Maybe someone here has info on how well protected our commercial and GPS satellites are?

I'd think that given the strategic significance of the GPS network it would be protected, to the maximum extent possible, as would all military recon, intel and communications satellites.

It's anybody's guess about the commercial stuff. I can live nicely without Direct TV, but the Hughes Net satellites provide internet service to remote regions where cable doesn't exist and rural dial up service is crappy. Having used it on the farm, I can say that it is only marginally better than urban dial up internet.

Let's just hope the playground bullies can be held in check.

Google "tempest emp protection" for everything you wanted to know. Tempest is a US gov't program that defines the risk and various levels of protection.

I used to be quite well versed in the details back in the 80's when I did weapons system mechanical design for a navy contractor. Everything we did was designed to Tempest requirements.

Hooker

Yep, it was the NSA standard when I worked on satellites.

Aluminum foil won't cut it.

That would have been NACSIM 5000. Did the testing course at Lackland AFB back in '85.

TEMPEST all caps. Can't say much about it, but the Navy has specs on it back in the late 80's.

A good bit of it has been de-classified at this point. Not to say that we willy-nilly blast the information all over the place mind you, but a good deal of it is, how should we say, overcome by events. That is to say, much of the technology that was accessed by TEMPEST attacks back in the 60's, 70's, 80's and even 90's isn't even used any more. How many of us still use a CRT monitor?

I still can recall how to tune a receiver to acquire an analog video signal, do some processing on it, and create a raster display on an oscilloscope using the X-Y inputs. I'm being deliberately vague here on purpose. What's an analog video signal again? Oh, yeah, that RGB and HV stuff. Now it's DisplayPort, HDMI, DVI, etc. I could even tell you how to 'attack' a teletype machine, but I won't. Or a chain printer . . . Or a . . . .

Don't some countries still have analog tv signals over the airwaves? I know here in US, they stopped it in 2009, right?

Here's a sample of NK tv! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSRjJ7Ss88o

Looks like PBS from the 80's!

Too bad some of us (me) have not mastered lightening protection. I was out at "the farm" for work on my LENR project this weekend, and we got everything ready to roll again, and switched on the DPS (digital power supply), and nothing happened, then we noticed the burned 20A fuse on the 51V (server pwr supply DC output) supply to the DPS. The DPS is a DPS5015 from China. Apparently, it does not find American lightening tasty. Several more blown fuses, it never lit up alive again, so we are out another $45 for replacement.

Best way to protect this from lightening? The feed to the HP server power supply is 240 VAC 1PH. It still has its 51V DC output no problem.

Do we need to provide MOVs on 240 volt side somewhere?

Lightning protection generally is done with a combination of surge devices. Metal Oxide Varistor's (MOV's) are very good in that they quickly turn on to protect the equipment from voltage surges but the problem is that they are limited in their capacity to keep the voltage low. As the current rises in an MOV the voltage also rises. The solution is to place gas discharge tubes (GDT's) in parallel with the MOV's because the quick response of the MOV's helps quell the initial surge and then as the current continues to rise, then the GDT's flash over and the voltage drops to near zero and stays near zero for very high currents. The reason you don't want to use GDT's only, is because GDT's are relatively 'slow' to respond and the voltage may spike too high.

You will want protection line-to-line and line-to-ground.

Of course, there are lightning strikes that cannot be protected against without spending big bucks. Think lightning protection for TV and radio towers. They can justify the expense, you probably can't.

I am confident my 1956 Buick will run after being exposed to EMP. Its vacuum tube radio will still work assuming anyone is transmitting.

I have more of a concern that they will sink a freighter off the coast of california with a big crude nuke and swamp the coast; with little proof/evidence to link them to the deed.

life is short = = eat dessert first, Woody

Who says we will let NK get a freighter out of port? As I understand it, they are under a full blockade.

That was my understanding as well. Unless it comes in over the border from china illegally nothing's going in or out of NK without inspection at the moment.

I'm opting for this solution...

So...is it cooler that way? Or is it like living inside a baked potato (foil-wrapped one at that).

That guy is in Tarpon Springs, FL. I have to imagine it's more like the baked potato inside...