six sigma

Yes.

Wikpedia does so quite adequately....

Six sigma is a measure of statistics and I promised my mother I would never discuss statistics in front of women and children, so get a book or Google it. It's a long answer.

But, the simple answer is that six sigma relates to a process that is very nearly perfect, i.e., about as close to zero defects as it is possible to make it. This should be compared to the old way of doing things where manufacturers had a target of, say, 1% rejects or failures and would often deliberately adjust the process if the reject rate fell too low. It was thought that too much quality cost money. Six Sigma, if memory serves me (and it rarely does any more, thank you kindly Glenfiddich) has reject rates of several per million.

Tom

Glennfiddich. Ah, yes. The really smooth "good" stuff.

Subject is more than just statistical practice unfortunately. (Measurement of process capability vs tolerances by process standard deviiations. "sigma". Attempt to reduce defects produced to 2-3 PPM.)

Commercially, it is abuse practiced by customers to inflict stupidity upon and raise costs of their suppliers. (Supplier abuse)

Seldom actually practiced by the customer in their own processes.Especially administratively.

Del, does Wikipedia also define commercial hypocrisy?

Would they give sick sigma as the prime example?

Milo

As I revisit this thread I have to state my general agreement to your statement as an at times potentially or seemingly abusive program from a suppliers persective.

cr3

Its not worth wasting your time on six sigma if your management has gone in for six sigma God bless you

ex Black belt

crm

six sigma has to do with a production company been able to produce less than 3.4 % of defective product . that is to say ,(for instance ) for every millon product u produce only 3.4 % is not very good . we also have five sigma , four sigma and even to one sigma . they all vary in percentage ,but for a standard firm six sigma is da bomb . Company like Delta steel company in delta state Nigeria ( where i am doing my IT) are SIX sigma compliant . six sigma save cost ,improve productivity and profit to the company and to the customers as Gain and durability.

I am Orowo JAmes,(mechanical engineering final year ) Igbinedion university Okada . Nigeria .07030196911

On the surface what you say is correct at the end of the day six sigma kills the companey. Why mororola failed in the market in terms of revenue. after adapting six sigma,What happened to 3M How much did they loose.Why IBM dosent talk about six sigma.Its sick sigma as mentioned by another member.

crm

Motorola IBM and 3M? Go to Morningstar and check your facts. You do not know what you are talking about. No really go check your facts. I'll wait. ................now would you like to pick three more?

Chowdhury has what is probably the most elementary explanation of 6 sigma in his book 'The Power of Six Sigma' It is a little corny but very thorough and friendly.

I suspect you have a personal beef, or perhaps suffer from untreated ignorance. All the same, at the end of the day it is that which kills companies.

For those of you who are interested here are the charts for the companies he listed

IBM 3M Motorola (view charts at 10yr or max)

cr3

The information that I requested has not been given, I believe this is the same information that others have also requested:-

1) Which companies actually are happy to mention that they have used Sixth Sigma?

2) where is that information published?

3) What division of the company was actually helped by Sixth Sigma?

4) When?

As this information, in one form or another has been requested, not just on this Blog on CR4 by the way, BUT NOBODY HAS ANSWERED THESE REQUESTS except to show at best certain stocks......!!!!

SOMETHING SMELLS EXTREMELY FISHY!!!!

I will agree that for manufacturing, the Sixth Sigma Dogma could possibly help, it is in the other divisions that I see it can be a liability!!!

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE someone supply some real infos about where Sixth Sigma has done a good job.......they must have done something good, more than once I would trust!!!!

Here you go!

http://tinyurl.com/2zbsm

Hugs All Around.

milo

Milo, I take that as agreeing with me that nobody is able to supply any facts that support Sixth Sigma Dogma at all.

eg. Do not touch it with a barge pole!!!

You BETcha.

In mfg. six sigma can work if and only if the management has previously eliminated the industrial engineers. This will have resulted in processes being laid out stupidly, and no true standards for work.

That allows the new parasite seagull species of "six sigma greenbelt or blackbelts" to fly in, eat the low hanging food, and crap all over the place before flying away.

I won't bore you with all the details, but I remember a particularly satisfying application of whhoop ass that I administered to a "black belt" at a division of Tomorrow Repair Whatever . We were supplying at 32 ppm; they couldn't even document a single process at 99.72% conformance (ie statistical control); they were trying to beat me into Zero PPM. I showed them how every change we could make would increase cost, but not get us to Zero.

For "saving face sake," they wanted to do a trial, When I asked them how many 180 ton heats of material they wanted for the trial, they said, no, we want only 10,000 pounds (their parts were 2 pounds apiece);

I snorted and said the word "dumbass" somewhat audibly, stood up and walked out of the meeting. on my way out I told my sales man audibly to "bring me back when this company had some one who could calculate frequency of occurrence at PPM levels. How would they know the change was effective on such a small sample?"

My stunt was legendary in our company and the salesmans trip report widely circulated; the buyer chased us out to the lobby to make sure that I was'nt going to cancel their orders.

Far as I know these turkeys have rearranged their production 4 or 5 times since, in KAIZEN EVENTS before sending job to china.

32 ppm. They had no flippin idea What that really meant.

Black belt my bbutt.

milo

Wonderful Milo, simply perfect.

Anyone else?

American Express, ABB, BBA Group, Burlington Industries, Dow, DuPont, IMI, Norgren, McKessen, HBOC, Nokia, Siemens, Honeywell, Glaxo, PerkinElmer, Cott Corporation, Maple Leaf Foods, Smarter Solutions, Qualitran Professional, Australian Food Corporation, Alcoa, Bendix, Nylex Polymer Products, Solectron Telecommunications, Vision Systems Fire & Security, Conseco, Starwood, American Standard, General Electric, Applied Signa, Merrill Lynch, Bank of America, Lear, JP Morgan, 3M, A.B. Dick Company, Abbott Labs, Adolph Coors, Advanced Micro Devices, Aerospace Corp, Airborne, Alcoa, Allen Bradley, Allied Signal, Ampex, Apple Computers, Applied Magnetics, ASQC, Atmel, Baxter Pharmaseal, Beatrice Foods, Bell Helicopter, Boeing, Bombardier, Borden, Bristol Meyers - Squibb, Bryn Mawr Hospital, Campbell Soup, Cellular 1, Chevron, Citicorp, City of Austin, TX, City of Dallas, TX, Clorox, Cooper Ind, Dannon, Defense Mapping Agency, Delnosa ( Delco Electronics in Mexico), Digital Equipment Corp, DTM Corp, Eastmen Kodak, Electronic Systems Center, Empak, Florida Dept. of Corrections, Ford Motor Company, GEC Marconi, General Dynamics, General Electric, Hazeltine Corp, Hewlett packard, Holly Sugar, Honeywell, Intel, Junior Achievement, Kaiser Aluminum, Kraft General Foods, Larson & Darby, Inc, Laser Magnetic Storage, Lear Astronics, Lenox China, Littton Data Systems, Lockhee Martin, Loral, Los Alamos National labs, Martin Marietta, McDonnell Douglas, Merix, Microsoft, Morton Int'l, Motorola, NASA, Nat'l Institute of Corrections, Nat'l Institute of Standards, Nat'l Semiconductor, Natural Gas Pipeline Company of America, Northrop Corp, PACE, Parkview Hospital, Pentagon, Pharmacia, PRC, Inc, Qualified Specialists, Ramtron Corp, Rockwell Int'l, Rohm & Haas, Seagate, Society of Plastics Egineers, Solar Optical, Sony, Star Quality, Storgae Tek, Symbios Logic, Synthes, Technicomp, Tessco, Texaco, Texas Commerce Bank, Texas Dept. of Transportation, Texas Instruments, Titleist, Trane, TRW, Ultratech Stepper, United States Air Force, United States Army, United technologies, UPS, USAA, Verbatim, Walbro Automotive, Walker parking, Woodward Governor, Xerox, Cardinal Health US Army, US Navy, LG and more......

So Milo I equate your statements to a Dousing thread that recently came through. I say I saw it with my own eyes and others say that means nothing. You say you had a bad experience regarding a program you don't understand or don't agree with and the above listed companies are all lunatics.

It Sounds more to me like an ego is holding onto an impulsive action that resulted in a glimmer of recognition in an otherwise thankless job that it didn't enjoy otherwise.

(damn those sociology classes, they keep popping up in social settings)

And Andy, it is Six Sigma, not Sixth Sigma

Charles R Rummel III

Ford Motor Company!

The prosecution rests.

This single example proves the charge.

Milo

I beleive it insanity to suggest that the 30 yr downfall of FMC (which is still in business) should be attributed to....nevermind Milo.

You are right. I am wrong. So are all the overpaid execs at all those struggling little businesses I listed for you. You can still be a legend.

Oh brother. Insert emo with his head in his hands here.

(Please notice that I chose to leave your comments on the floor. Where they belong.)

That allows the new parasite seagull species of "six sigma greenbelt or blackbelts" to fly in, eat the low hanging food, and crap all over the place before flying away.

You are entitled to your opinion. and It is based on your experience.

My experience, Director of Quality and Technology for several steel companies, supplying the fords, delphis, rochester products, TRW's, GM's, Chrysler's, GE's and many many others, testifies strongly against The rosy picture you and others make about six sigma as practiced. I teach and practice statistics in industrial setting, and the charge that i do not understand six sigma is without merit.

As a victim to the stupid myopic "screw the supplier" six sigma as supplier abuse programs that I have had to clean up after in my career, I am saddened to find my opposite opinion to yours somehow claimed to be ignorance.

If thy rose colored glasses experience is valid then mine is too.

Its funny, I gave one incident, and it becomes basis for ad hominem sarcasm.

You give a list of companies that includes, dead, dying, walking wounded etc as well as profitable ones, and on one side, say 'see these are all great companies they use six sigma,' then on the other side, you say, 'Well ,surely we can't say that Ford or whoevere's problems are the result of six sigma.' - The poor dears. I've walked into their shops where they had a wreck on a screw machine causing the form tool to feed in diagonally into the collet, not straight into the workpiece. Their greenbelt showed me my material certs and claimed that the sulfur was causing hard spots that were wrecking the tools. after an hour of listening to this pseudo data driven drivel, in the conference room with the plant manager, dept. manager, anmd the buyer, i asked to go see the machine. Wreck on midnight turn, blame the steel. Fly in metallurgist on short notice at $1000 so I can tell them that their union brother wrecked the machine and didn't report it.

I could give you hundreds of these examples. Six sigma data driven my a$$.

The fact is , that six sigma is a symptom of the straw grasping program of the day desperation managements' who have already laid off any one with any knowledge of the processes; they use it to abuse their value chain, their internal operations, and then use the results to excuse their sad performance and decisions to export work abroad.

I put on lean training across the country for my trade association; I do design of experiments that have saved millions; in one case the result was proof of lack of capability and so a $30 million capital investment in the facility. It wasn;t six sigma. it was just scientific method applied to problemsolving using statistical tools. Six sigma is a talisman, a magical teddybear for managements who are averse to thinking and hard work; thinking and process understanding will trump it every time.

peace.

milo

we will disagree if you so choose. just let me make it clear where I stand.

If a company follows the math outlined in 6σ then they will see an increase in bottom line if used properly = profit. It is math. it is not subjective. It is math, plain and simple. Just becasue you were yolked to a dying industry it is absurd to suggest 6σ was the culprit. You said it yourself, you were the dir of qual for a steel company (industry has been struggling for last 30+ yrs conservatively) who supplied goods to a bunch of companies that had a long term and highly visible decline as a result of labor issues, pension plundering, executive bloating, arrogance in mgmnt, unforecasted or innacuratley forecasted oversees market share. Yet you say this supports your argumant that 6σ is ineffective. Dude your on a river in Egypt as far as I can tell. Further, the fact you were a dir of qual does not qualify you as an authority on 6σ any more than me being responsible for the global supply chain of manufactured products as used by one of the most powerful (in market share) companies in the world makes me qualified to speak against 300mm vs 200mm wafer design.

So yes, I do beleive we will disagree. let's just be clear as to why and what we are disagreeing about. Our emotions or mathematics.

Respectfully

cr3

Its implementation has never been pure math.

You idealize this, as math; It is not the math that prevails.

milo

This is my point Milo. It is math. It's implementaion allows the human factor to negate the math.

And I am a gamete.

a gametes way of making more gametes.

On vulcan, six sigma would be a math program.

On earth, in north america, its statistical supplier abuse.

milo "We have been addressing the implementation"

On earth, in north america, its statistical supplier abuse.

In my part of the country it's a really fat paycheck and a rewarding experience. Did I mention fat paycheck?

You have just put it in a nutshell, well done Mr C Rummel3 !! Your words were:-

Did I mention fat paycheck?

I certainly did not manage myself to put it so concisely, that is really any Black Belts bottom line, but he means it for himself.........Screw the rest!!

By the way, I think that if you learned to spell properly or to use the spell checker, your words may have carried a tiny bit more weight than they actually did! Its just a thought mind you.....!

Please elaborate as to my erroneous spelling Herr Deutschland.

Milo you are Brilliant and your wording and phrasing (as well as your personal take on SS) puts mine completely to shame, FANTASTIC!!! and very well done.....

Too many of us on CR4 have seen the darker side of this business.

My apologies for not getting the name right, but I was keeping a shield between me and a Six(th) Sigma Lawyer.......I was not born yesterday......but many were!! i will contine with my version, unless you prefer Sick?

I also have the feeling that you do not read (or maybe understand) what I and several others have written......we all agree that in a manufacturing situation, the dogma may help, no argument at all, but in other departments and types of companies, the representatives simply do not understand the problems, even if it is explained 10 times.....

If you had looked at one of my previous posts, you would have seen the 4 points we needed, STILL NEITHER YOU NOR ANYONE ELSE CAN OR WILL ANSWER THESE 4 POINTS FULLY!!!

I WONDER WHY????????

If you and your colleagues want to be taken serious, that is a minimum requirement to allow further discussion, the rest is just hearsay!!! That is all I hear....from you and others. What do you say in the USA"Put up or shut up"?

I had a quick look at the list, some of these companies are in serious financial trouble, some have fired thousands of employees and are still in trouble, a high percentage of them are manufacturers first and foremost.....I made a quick rough check and the relationship was about 135:18, what a surprise!!

At least one of the firms you mentioned does not even exist anymore because SS could not do its job right (I was there!!)!!! Also you can`t even spell its name right either!!!

Several others were also miss spelled and several I have not seen on the stock exchange for a long time. Lack of time precludes me taking the list even further apart to show more inadequacies....

But let me state just one more time for you, I sincerely believe that "Manufacturing can benefit", its the rest that often go downhill to oblivion!!!! Its the rest that I am talking about!!!

Six Sigma is not a holy grail. It is not a fix it for all companies who are struggling. It is a costly and time consuming philosophy that is implemented from the executive level down through to the mail rooms of businesses. Unfortunately some companies think this is the way to solve all their problems over night. It is not.

Albert Einstein was once asked what mans greatest invention was. He scratched his head and replied "Compound Interest". Six Sigma employs principles that have the same statistical results as CI. If you are in debt there is a simple mathematical philosophy that will resolve your debt exponentially quicker than the traditional methods of monthly payment. But you must be liquid enough to weather the storm. You must commit fully. You must be disciplined and unfaltering. You must make good decisions. If yo do all these things, the result is that you have in effect made used the same principles that were inhibiting you to conquer themselves.

Six Sigma is similar in fashion. It is a difficult philosophy to appreciate if you do not understand it, but the results, when performed well can be staggering.

As to your Four points.

1) Which companies actually are happy to mention that they have used Sixth Sigma? I gave you a list are they happy look at the earnings reports. They can be found for all publicly traded companies at SEC.gov

2) where is that information published? A simple search on the web will give you countless examples of companies that employ 6σ, but you will have to actually look yourself as opposed to spouting off questions and waiting for someone to answer them for you if you are still unsatisfied with the 100+ companies I sent you.

3) What division of the company was actually helped by Sixth Sigma? This question is a bit hard for me as I am not in a position to write a thesis to satisfy your argumentative point of view.

4) When? again, why don't you look yourself?

Andy G makes yet another desperate plea for someone to answer his question that he himself will not answer: PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE someone supply some real infos about where Sixth Sigma has done a good job.......they must have done something good, more than once I would trust!!!!

Charles patiently replies: when one of my children does not like the answer to a question they will go to their mother and ask her in hopes of getting another response.

I have the feeling you may not have understood all the points in my last posting, especially with regard to the companies you quoted, I think it was 118 are mostly if not completely manufacturing, I thought that most of us agreed that SS can do a reasonable job in such cases, am I right? If yes, then lets ignore those!!

Now looking at the others, some have gone under completely or been taken over, for example StorageTek (which your spelling did not quite work for, amongst several others...) is GONE GONE GONE!!! But you put them on a list of recommendation!!!!!!!!

The reason that they went under was because the Dogma did not and could not be applied to the problems the company had!!!!! That is the usual problem with SS, if it don't fit, they try and make it fit and drop the bottom out of the company at the same time!

If you wish, I can get probably 25 or more ex STK (the short form for StorageTek!9 ex employees, who got their fingers burnt off by Black Belts to join CR4 and critic further what you have been saying, are you up to that? Its not a problem for me and will probably take less than 48 hours to organise!!!!

I know a couple of others around with sixth Sigma experience from other companies, maybe we should get them here too.....also many members of CR4 have had bad experiences too......not all of them are here, but I could get them to if you wish!!

There were several other companies that I have not seen around for a time, that may also have gone to the great company heaven in the sky!!! But why should I have to check up on you and Sixth Sigma and whether or not it works in all cases?

Surely its YOU who are trying to convince me (completely unsuccessfully up to now I may add!) they are good, not the other way round.....and for that you have not even got your facts straight!!! You should certainly have left StorageTek right out if you were at all clever.....and I believe several others too....

It looks as though I would have to do all the research myself on a company that I cannot stand and would never ever, if it was in my power, to employ!!!! i will not bother of course....

Do you really have a grasp on reality....? Is this the modern way to sell? P**s the possible customer off and mix up untruths with possible truths?

Up to now, you have made the Six Sigma dogma look even less attractive than it was when we started, par for the course I would say!!

I remember when the Black Belts first came through the door, I thought NOW WE ARE GOING TO DO SOME DAMN GOOD WORK DONE, boy was I wrong!!!

I wish you a great day, but please write me off as a lost cause, as you are just completely wasting your time as well as making the SS Dogma look bad on this blog....sorry but thats the way the cookie crumbles.....

WOW! what a large number of exclamation points. Few if any others, mind you, but lots of exclamations.

StorageTek. Mr germany I am not impressed. I try and carry a civilised discussion and once again, yes I said again, you rant and personalize this to the point that I ask myself why. But alas Mr Germany I trudge on. So it seems you got your weenie pinched in some business affair and now 6σ is the heathen in the pews. You asked for a list. I provided it. over 100 companies. I provided links to earnings statements. I heve agreed to the point that if improperly implemented it can be a detrimental endeavor for any company and especially for the small. You continue to rant about some little company called Storage Tek. Exclaiming vehemently that they are the smoking gun as you accuse me of greed, self seeking motives and having niether integrity nor accurate facts. Well, Mr. Germany, Storage Tek does still exist. Storage Tek is actually doing quite well since being acquired by Sun on 09/01/05.

I have the feeling you may not have understood all the points in my last posting, especially with regard to the companies you quoted, I think it was 118 are mostly if not completely manufacturing, I thought that most of us agreed that SS can do a reasonable job in such cases, am I right? If yes, then lets ignore those!!

Chevron, Citibank, US Army AND Navy, Florida Dept of Corrections, City of Dallas, Parkview Hospital, UPS, Defense Mapping Agency.......did you even read the list?

Now looking at the others, some have gone under completely or been taken over, for example StorageTek (which your spelling did not quite work for, amongst several others...) is GONE GONE GONE!!! But you put them on a list of recommendation!!!!!!!!

I belieive I have adderessed this matter thoroughly.

If you wish, I can get probably 25 or more ex STK (the short form for StorageTek!9 ex employees, who got their fingers burnt off by Black Belts to join CR4 and critic further what you have been saying, are you up to that? Its not a problem for me and will probably take less than 48 hours to organise!!!!

I know a couple of others around with sixth Sigma experience from other companies, maybe we should get them here too.....also many members of CR4 have had bad experiences too......not all of them are here, but I could get them to if you wish!!

The thread has been posted. Do what you wish.

There were several other companies that I have not seen around for a time, that may also have gone to the great company heaven in the sky!!! But why should I have to check up on you and Sixth Sigma and whether or not it works in all cases?

More heavily emoted personal ranting.

Surely its YOU who are trying to convince me (completely unsuccessfully up to now I may add!) they are good, not the other way round.....and for that you have not even got your facts straight!!! You should certainly have left StorageTek right out if you were at all clever.....and I believe several others too....

My facts are clear well organized and supported by accessible and current data.

It looks as though I would have to do all the research myself on a company that I cannot stand and would never ever, if it was in my power, to employ!!!! i will not bother of course....

Up to this point it appears that you have done exactly NO research. Rather you are carrying on.

Do you really have a grasp on reality....? Is this the modern way to sell? P**s the possible customer off and mix up untruths with possible truths?

I have a firm grasp on reality. As to the rest of yur statement..huh?

Up to now, you have made the Six Sigma dogma look even less attractive than it was when we started, par for the course I would say!!

I remember when the Black Belts first came through the door, I thought NOW WE ARE GOING TO DO SOME DAMN GOOD WORK DONE, boy was I wrong!!!

I wish you a great day, but please write me off as a lost cause, as you are just completely wasting your time as well as making the SS Dogma look bad on this blog....sorry but thats the way the cookie crumbles.....

More largely incomprehinsible ranting with an inordinate number of personal blubberings and exclamation points.

Look Mr Germany. I am sorry you have had a bad experience. I take my job EXTREMELY seriously. I am a man of integrity and strong character who could not perform for any amount of money if it wern't so in the workplace.

Your grievance is duly recognized. But 6σ is very powerful tool that has the potential to change the companies tht employ it by ensuring the customers who use it receive the highest quality parts, services and goods that can be obtained

We will let the public at large decide won't we......?

At least they will have the opportunity of reading from an "interested party" who according to his own post, is only looking for a:- "Did I mention fat paycheck?" Blusterer, and someone (who is not alone )who has had and seen firsthand, just how inflexible Sick Sigma really is....and as you are aware, others on CR4 are also not exactly happy with the dogma and methods either.

You show a talent in obfuscation that ought to be recognised in this millennium in some way, I do have to admit......my talents lie in other directions I am happy to say....

Before I leave you to your beliefs completely, a few of the words or names that you miss spelled were:- Applied Signa, Eastmen Kodak, Lockhee Martin, Storgae Tek, innacuratley, beleive, disagreeing, implementaion, north america - to name but a few in just a couple of minutes....all from your posts.

You could have used the built in spelling checker, but of course being SO clever.......!! You didn't!

You also mentioned that you are a gamete!! female even!!! No surprise to me at all...., read below, then you might understand further that you forgot to spell this correctly, assuming that you are of the male gender that is.....there again....

What that has to do with getting a business running correctly goes WAY over my head......thank God (again!)

Wikipedia had the following to say about this:-

A gamete (from Ancient Greek γαμετης; translated gamete = wife, gametes = husband) is a specialized sex cell that fuses with another gamete during fertilization (conception) in organisms that reproduce sexually.

The rest you can get from Wikipedia if you are so inclined....there are several pages on the subject!! Take a sick bucket (barf bag?)with you, just in case.....you never know!!

I also took the time to look back in the postings to see who dropped his rocks and got nasty first, what a surprise IT WAS YOU!!! Not quite the "Coolio" you would like to be eh?

Read back in all your posts and surprise yourself in something more that you don't know well about yourself!!! You lose it far too quickly!!

But please have a great day in spite of me and others on CR4.......and get another fat paycheck......at someone else's expense......

I wonder if your real name and your logon name are similar? That is, you could be now "uncovered" so to say.......Oh Dear!! Tragedy!!

I just read up on our Sick Sigma black Belt a little, it appears that he has NOT have anything to do with Six Sigma at all, in fact he is still studying for a 2nd degree......he wants a job working in and around GPS equipment.......after December 2007!!!

Perhaps Six Sigma is his night time or evening job......much better paid than frying Burgers I have to admit!

There appears to be nothing in his past or present that qualifies him to say so much about this subject that I can see!!

But what was he on about "Fat pay checks"?????

So it appears that he really does know as little as we thought he did about the SS Dogma!!!

Andy-

I implore you, no I beg of you to stop sounding like my ex-wife. She was (is) extremely attractive, but alas, not so bright and ever so argumentative.

Your personal attacks of my character are unfounded and really portray you in a very unwelcoming light. Perhaps even more than the vain attempts at intellectualism.

I have a great deal to do with Six Sigma. I am contemplating transitioning into GPS/GIS, specifically photgrammetry upon graduation in December. I never claimed to be a black-belt. I have studied Jiu Jitsu and I have studied Tu Kong-Moosul and I have been employed in a six-sigma environment, but I have never made claims to be a black belt in any of those matters.

If you are so eager to research my quals all you need to do is ask. I am an open and honest book. And at times quite an amusing and adventourous read at that.

I have worked as a consultant for some of the following companies: Intel, Oregon, Massachusetts, Arizona. HP, Oregon; Texas Instruments; White Oaks (Motorola), Virginia. Applied Materials, Texas. LSI Logic, Oregon. Sematech Texas.

I am also a highly skilled precision machinist, both manual and CNC (although that skill is a bit dated). I have 28 projects in various stages of patent and or development. I am also a yet unpublished writer. I go to school, raise a family work forty hrs a week and donate all of my free time (10-20) hrs a week to men, women and families in recovery.

I used to take summers off and work in the entertainment industry as a lighting tech. or lighting director. I have lit up Garth Brooks, Arrowsmith, Black Sabbath, Luciano Pavaratti, Wayne Newton, The Statler Brothers to name just a few.

As to fat paychecks. YES I love fat paychecks. I work my ass off. I have years of very hard to acquire experience that is highly sought after. I perform my job at a level of great competence with integrity and a broad scope of understanding that is well worthy of those fat checks.

I have step and birth children that total to 8, the checks come in handy.

My left ankle and left knee are made of titanium from two seperate accidents.

My dog's name is Zoey and she is 18 years old! And I started riding motorcycles when I was 5.

You see Andy, all you have to do is ask. Open book I tell you.

Now seriously Mr. Germany, it is clear that you are unaware of the way you are behaving or are unconcerned with your behavior, nevertheless, it is very, very tiresome. Consistently so, throughout the forum. So please. Take it easy. One day at a time. Live and let go.

Mr. Germany, might you entertain my humble query? Do you actually read EVERY word written, prior to the drumming of your vindiction?

Luaghing through my confusion,

Charles Ray Rummel III

Obfuscation - I do hope you gave no more than 25 pfennig for that 10 pfennig word. It does not fit your writing style and quite surprised me. Not to suggest that you are laconic by any means.

Actually Andy, I, milo, claimed to be a gamete. A gamete's way of producing other Gametes.

It was an analogy that I am to a gamete as six sigma is to math. Math is the method employed to abuse the supplier. Not to be confusing the means with the end.

Personally, having seen the valiant attempts that non -native english speakers attempting to use english typed into the computer make, gives me reason to take a big swallow of the tolerance serum, and beg forgivenss for my own typing (mostly) and Capitalization(chronic) errors.

My capitalization was perfect going into college; 3 years of German ( 3 Years of german?) and I now capitalize many, most some Nouns, many words that are adjectives attached to nouns, and even words that used to be nouns before they grew up to become verbs or other parts of Speech.

I could spend the extra time inspecting my typing, or I could continue higher value, highest and best use work. This is a public forum, not an entrance exam, and Compared to what the kids are doing with Text messages, I'm Thinking I'm OK.

So mea culpa on my spelling, typing and capitalization errors. and excutive clemency for every body else as well.

I know my DPPM ain't even 2700!

milo "and to all a good night" Clause

Six sigma is a datadrviven process ( Thats what we are intersested)with out data if people claim success then i am shure all the projects run under sixsigma are not worth discusing.I have seen enough of projects run on falls data (last comopaney i was working never gathered data on voice Voice of customer and used there own company departments were treated as Internal coustomer example engineering projects are run treating Finance department as customer and never ran a project with real voice of customer& shouted at their top of their voices they are six sigma companeies and number of blackbelts claimed suceess in running dozens of projects and showed large savings in fact i did not see real money generated out of projects run

crm

I agree, in my case it was a costly run up to be taken over......and then the shedding of 90% of the employees....

Here is the link to Wikipedia's answer - Six Sigma.

There are good points and bad points regagrding 6σ. It outlines a basic problem solving template - DMAIC. If you are looking for a system to implement in resolving problems quickly, I recommend Shanin. Good Luck.

Ditton on the Shanin comment.

milo

ASK JACK WELCH He Invented IT

My advice is, if your company is not in manufacturing, where sixth sigma has produced some good results, then start looking for a new job fast as the SS (interesting initials eh?) is usually brought onboard to try and stop the ship sinking. But it just goes down even faster than it was doing before!!!

Been there, seen it and got the T-Shirt!!

Get out and keep your head down!!!

Remember, you read it here first!!

Andy,

Your posting rings true. Over the years I've seen a ton of these things come and go and it's always a sure sign that layoffs, plant closing, budget tightening etc are just around the corner. Management almost always seems to look for magic when the going gets tough. The best quality program I ever saw was a small manufacturing company in Chicago that was bought by two doctors needing an investment. They called the employees together and said "We want 17% return on our investment every year. The rest is yours. Run the company anyway you want; just send us our checks." Production and shipping went on-time and quality problems went waaay down.

Tom

Wow, those two Doctors were the cleverest men I have heard about in such an area. Great, thanks for the posting!

What I neglected to mention in earlier postings, is that a management that has to resort to such "Tricks"(as a word to use) like Sixth Sigma, is not worth the name manager anyway.......

My God, he takes good money from the company to pilot it through thick and thin to the benefit of the whole!! If he cannot do that, then get out and let in someone who can....the stockholders need to be more active in such areas too.....

I have worked for both good and bad managers (CEOs), even the bad good ones are were only set on getting their own stake in the firm out at a high market price.....

....talk about blood sucking!!!!

I wish I knew then what I know now.......

Excuse me Mr Nom(s) de Plume, but you missed a big point (as it would appear a lot of Sixth Sigma operatives too...so do not be upset, you are not alone!), when for example a service company calls in a Sixth Sigma operative(s), that tends to be a clear signal that the company is in some serious financial trouble.....

(I am reliably told that in manufacturing only companies they can deliver better fixes, so be it.....)

Too many of us on CR4 have seen this first hand for it to be a "one off".

Are there facts and figures anywhere of where Sixth Sigma dogma has helped or just the opposite? Just in the USA would be enough....in the last say 8 years?

By the way, if you really want to be taken at all seriously on this Blog (or any at CR4), having a proper logon is a must!!! You are cordially invited.....

As Guest you are not really do much, excepting as in this case, probably turning even more people away from Sixth Sigma......!

Dont get too much hot. Six sigma really helpful not only in Manufaturing area but also in Process field. I also working in both and utilized six sigma and got major benifits. This is the tool to solve chronic problem.

Other than POSSIBLY manufacturing, I simply do not believe you or any other SS protagonists.

The way you talk, you are either one of them or have been indoctrinated very well by them/for them....they are clever in this area, no doubt in my mind at all!!

You will never convince me, so be really clever and learn something right now and quickly and just give up on me.

I know that I could do it better if I wanted to, but I am an honest Guy, to all around me and to myself, I would have to get rid of all the mirrors in house as a start!!! To my mind, it has some wrinkles from "Pyramid" selling......

When you have worked right up close (as I have done) with these people for nearly 3 years, you find out what makes them tick, earning money quickly.....with a lot of smoke clouds and sparks.

David Copperfield does it much better!

Just ignore me completely please, remember you win some and you lose some, you Guys lost me completely with your methodology years ago! Same as Ron Hubbard did.....

I would have listened maybe a bit longer if you had a logon name, or you had given me some links or other info to show your successes and failures (as I asked for in my last post!), typically for SS you just ignored that......!

Younger "cleverer" people may be taken in, so please concentrate yourself in that direction maybe!!! Byeeeeee!!!

Hay Mr.guest probably you are one of the greenbelts or yellow belt who got or still getting the reward checks at the cost of other sacked or discarded employies if you are not in manafacturing at shopfloor you are not authrised to talk about six sigma.for your information six sigma cannot be applied to Marketing ,this is my first hand experience as black belt ,i fully agree with Mr.Andy Germany as for your log in to CR4 with out being a member.

crm

See,first you should remove ur mind set. it can utilize all the function of any organization, we were utilising more projects, all are successfully completed in different functions like marketting through Six sigma. This is not a find fault tool ,it is to solve the fault in a systematic manner. Think possitively, get better future.

Its not worth discussing with S.S. members(s s of second world war)

crm

Isaacraja,

I hope I can put this to you in a gentle and friendly way, but with your grammar and spelling in English (mine is far from perfect I know!!), I seriously doubt a) that you are in the USA or the UK or any English speaking country b) or that you actively work as a Sixth Sigma operative.

You did not give much information about yourself to CR4 (You have a name, but all the rest is like being a Guest!!), but appear to be in Procurement according to another posting (your first or two up to now!)!!!! Does procurement lend itself to being improved by SS Principles and Dogma, if yes, I can only say one learns something new every day!!!!

I would have thought that in procurement you need flexibility and a brain like a computer and be able to work unattended by upper management, that does not sound like Sixth Sigma to me......

I would of course be very interested to see where you work and what you do....please let us know forthwith....maybe I will need to completely retract my negative view that I have up to now.....

You may of course belong to a company with or had serious problems in manufacturing, who has been saved (is that the best word?) with Sixth Sigma help.....I am very happy for you if that is the case. (also please detail the company concerned as we are all very interested in such successes) Also I am perfectly happy to see a success for Sixth Sigma.....all I have heard is the opposite....

As to you being in marketing (or procurement!!) with such Grammatical failures in an English speaking country, I would be most surprised.... (excepting of course that it would tend to bear out some thoughts of mine years ago when I worked FOR an American company in marketing as an Engineering Specialist, until I got them trained properly!)....so please surprise me!!

By the way Marketing is spelt with one T, the spell checker on CR4 would have helped you here....like it helps me each time.....

If you work in a non English speaking country and English is not your first language, please ignore the words I used with regard to spelling and Grammar, yours are then perfectly acceptable to me in every way.....

Please please accept this posting more as a request for further and complete infos about yourself, rather than a criticism of you personally in any way.....I would like to fully know your credentials, for posting what you did, that is all......

With proper credentials, you will help SS, without them you make them look even worse than they probably are!

Have a great day in spite of me..... we can talk again later.

(I have re-read this through several times, I am not quite happy with my tone, but I tend to call a spade a "Bloody Shovel", so it is not too bad for me!! Better I cannot do it and get my point over, sorry!!)

CRM, I thank you most kindly for your to my mind astute & clever observations.

I personally feel that anyone who first joins us as a Guest is perfectly welcome, but when he persistently hides behind Guest, he has something to hide.

What it is, character defect or job problem or anything, is impossible for us to discern - but here I am speaking as though I am interested in what his problem is, a (hopefully) singular failure of mine, sorry to all (properly logged on) readers!!!!!

My dear Friend for the parents their kids are always best even if they are good for nothing.similarly to a country where six sigma was born its wounderful however badly it might perform and whatever the bad efects it creats and spreads.

crm

Fight you bastards, I hate peace!!!!!

Your reply has confirmed you come from a countery of dumbs.You dont even know how to behave yourself on this fourm,

crm

Hi crm,

My apologies if you were offended by my previous statement. It was meant to be funny, It is an expression of humour and not meant to be defamatory in any way.

I might suggest that you use spell check as some in this country of dumbs can spell........... and do you mind if I ask, from what particular part of our planet do you hang your hat.

My experience which is pretty well already documented in the conversations:

The only people who have anything positive to say about SS are the one's drawing a "fat paycheck" as a result of "buying the course". The only instances I am aware of where it is even used:

New CEO taking over position at a company doing well, has to spend his budget and look like he is doing something: Result - Spend lots of money, Managers get tied up in SS meetings/training and can't keep an eye on projects, projects don't do well.

New CEO taking over position at a company not doing well, has no idea what to do, probably not qualified for the job, kissed arse to the top: Result - Borrows money from Peter (banks) to pay Paul (SS), Managers get tied up in SS meetings/training and can't keep an eye on projects, projects don't do well.

Company doing well, wants to do better, buys the sales pitch: Result - Spend lots of money, Managers get tied up in SS meetings/training and can't keep an eye on projects, projects don't do well.

Company doing well, wants to do better, buys the sales pitch: Result - Spend lots of money, Managers get tied up in SS meetings/training and can't keep an eye on projects, doesn't matter the process was incapable of SS sabotage. SS takes credit for a continued performance.

Company doing poorly, wants to do better, buys the sales pitch: Result - Result - Spend lots of money, Managers get tied up in SS meetings/training and can't keep an eye on projects, projects don't do well.

In pricipal, if the program accomplished what is sells, it would be useful, (we need all the improvement we can get) but alas I think the "fat paychecks" get in the way of the actual process of improved behaviours and effective implementation (i.e. if we take longer to implement...we take longer to implement...we get "fat paycheck longer"). Rendering the program (opinion of everyone who I have had the pleasure of discussing the topic with and who have been through the implementation) at least a nuisance to what they should really be doing instead of sitting in coutless meetings about SS, and in most cases much more detrimental to actual core production process and output.

False pretense and the sales pitch that the process will make it work (in examples I am familiar with) is forcing our SME's to perform under a guise that is, less knowledgable with the current process or company activities. (i.e. if you have to bulldoze the house to fix the foundation, move somewhere else) From what I have seen SS only knows how to bulldoze the house.

I would run for the hills if SS started in my org, unless of course they wanted to provide the "fat paycheck" my way. Sorry Andy, I am still a capitalist at heart, just wouldn't defend SS with a straight face, even if I was getting the "fat paycheck".

Yes I am ashamed of myself, but I deserve it! Me, Me, Me! Six Sigma Rules!!!! Where can I sign up???

Six Sigma is everything that has been stated here. Both good and bad. I have seen already succesful companies reduce costs - significantly (I do not know of any companies who have been sucessful trying to use this as a 'turnaround' or 'recovery plan'. That is an error on mgmnt not 6σ). But of course any gains have to come from somewhere. And typically it is from Johny average John. I know first hand how it can adversly affect a company. Seen it.

But it is the mentality of those employeeing the methods that is my debate. When performed well it performs well. And conversely the same. But only for certain companies (not just MFG as the ever prolific Mr. Germay would suggest), those that can afford to completely reconsider acceptable levels of errror and the cost of resolution should (mathematicaly) and usually do see bottom line results. This is the goal of any successful business - to be profitable at all costs. That is business. It seems some would rather wander into a pseudo ethics debate.

The list of companies I provided should not be taken lightly. These companies are some of the heaviest hitters in the game. They can endure. SS is not for the faint of heart or the inexperienced.

I would have had less to say on the subject, accept that some peoples constant berating of all that do not agree was an unbearable burr in my blanket on this one. I chose my battles and I chose this one.

I chose it in defense of those who succeed and do not violate ethics nor compromise morals while employing 6σ.

cr3

As i know six sigma might can be use on some company depend on what kind of line you are in,not all company can be benefit.

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