Previous in Forum: Skype Problem   Next in Forum: BTU/KWH
Close
Close
Close
9 comments
Rate Comments: Nested
Active Contributor

Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 16

Gas Consumption Calculation

04/13/2018 2:15 PM

Hi friend please help me out in the calculation of natural gas bills

Let me share complete calculation of March-2018.

The problem is 02 type of metering of my system,

one is external metering which is gas supplier and other is my internal check meters.
external metering system reading 280861MMBTU OR internal metering 6099234 kg

If I go with the external metering system the current calculation is as below.
my total generation is 35415336 Kw in the month of March.
and my gas component price is 3.9/kw

So the total amount is 138424382.29
now GAS bill Calculation of the month March-18.

Reading 280861 MMBTU and price is 500/mmbtu , total bill amount 140430614
but if i want to do a relationship between generation amount to gas bill amount
140430614 - 138424382.29

My bill calculation print.

MMBTU= Cubic meters/28.17385 = CFT * GCV/1000.

how 28.17385? , if my Real Relative Density Gas = 0.6282

Secondly, if my GCV= 1010.92 BTU/SCF then what is in MJ/ KG, how to convert it
my test report show 44.5 MJ/Kg

what is yield value in Kwh/kg let say 5800 Kwh/Kg?

Register to Reply
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Indeterminate Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: In the bothy, 7 chains down the line from Dodman's Lane level crossing, in the nation formerly known as Great Britain. Kettle's on.
Posts: 32175
Good Answers: 839
#1

Re: Gas Consumption Calculation

04/13/2018 4:48 PM

Please explain what help is needed. Help the forum to help out!

Please be consistent and rigorous with labelling units. For example 1kW ≠ 1kWh as the first is a quantity and the second is a rate. Which is which in the original post?

__________________
"Did you get my e-mail?" - "The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place" - George Bernard Shaw, 1856
Register to Reply
Active Contributor

Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 16
#2
In reply to #1

Re: Gas Consumption Calculation

04/13/2018 5:01 PM

can i understand any relationship between GCV= 1010.92 BTU/SCF then what is in MJ/KG

what if i say 1010.92 GCV has 35769 BTU ?

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Stoke-on-Trent, UK
Posts: 4496
Good Answers: 137
#4
In reply to #1

Re: Gas Consumption Calculation

04/14/2018 4:37 AM

Other way round. First, kW is a rate, second, kWh is a quantity.

__________________
Give masochists a fair crack of the whip
Register to Reply
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Indeterminate Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: In the bothy, 7 chains down the line from Dodman's Lane level crossing, in the nation formerly known as Great Britain. Kettle's on.
Posts: 32175
Good Answers: 839
#9
In reply to #4

Re: Gas Consumption Calculation

11/13/2018 8:13 AM

Oops.

__________________
"Did you get my e-mail?" - "The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place" - George Bernard Shaw, 1856
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 42355
Good Answers: 1693
#3

Re: Gas Consumption Calculation

04/13/2018 10:46 PM

Ask your supplier for enlightenment.

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Stoke-on-Trent, UK
Posts: 4496
Good Answers: 137
#5

Re: Gas Consumption Calculation

04/15/2018 5:55 PM

You need to explain better what your problem is.

I’m not aware of gas meters that read directly in heat units, only volume. For one thing, gas CV can vary, but perhaps you have them where you are.

I assume it’s for power generation. If you generate 35415336 kWh, why would you multiply that by the gas component price is 3.9/kWh? (putting in the correct units)

If MMBTU = Cubic meters/28.17385, CV = MMBTU/(28.17385m3) = 37.45MJ/m3.

1010.92 BTU/SCF = 37.67MJ/m3, so you have two approx equal ways to express the CV, why? Fairly typical for GCV of natural gas, perhaps a little on the low side.

If the Real Relative Density Gas = 0.6282 (real as opposed to what?), actual density = 0.6282*1.2 = 0.754 kg/Sm3 (std 20°C).

Test report figure 44.5 MJ/kg gives 44.5*0.754 = 33.55MJ/m3. My guess is the test report figure is NCV.

Bear in mind that natural gas is not pure methane, it contains higher mol. wt. hydrocarbons, so the density is higher (as you can see from the figures), the CV/m3 is higher, but the CV/kg is lower, than pure methane.

Why would you say 5800 kWh/kg? That’s over 20000MJ/kg. Cold fusion or something?

__________________
Give masochists a fair crack of the whip
Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Active Contributor

Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 16
#7
In reply to #5

Re: Gas Consumption Calculation

04/22/2018 2:44 PM

thanks codemaster, your real grue,

sir my boss killing ;) me due to higher gas consumption reflected on gas meters in terms of MMBTU

i still cant figure out why , even all generators running or OEM specification gas consumption in terms of KGs/h at rated MWh output,

i am confused , is there any relationship i can find in between to MMBTU with kg gas consumption so that i can verified the bill in-terms it is high or low or my plant efficiency not up to the mark , by the way how to calculate efficiency if i have MMBTU input or Kwh generation output in 31 days.

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Stoke-on-Trent, UK
Posts: 4496
Good Answers: 137
#8
In reply to #7

Re: Gas Consumption Calculation

04/23/2018 7:42 AM

1MJ = 947.8 BTU, so 44.5MJ/kg (your test figure) = 44.5*947.8/10^6 = 0.0422 MMBTU/kg. So just multiply your kg consumption by 0.0422 to get MMBTU.

The other way round, 1 kWh = 3.6 MJ, so 1 kWh = 3.6*947.8/10^6 = 0.00341 MMBTU. That gives your electric output in MMBTU. Divide that by input MMBTU (in the gas) to get efficiency.

__________________
Give masochists a fair crack of the whip
Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Guru
Engineering Fields - Power Engineering - New Member

Join Date: May 2007
Location: NYC metropolitan area.
Posts: 3230
Good Answers: 444
#6

Re: Gas Consumption Calculation

04/15/2018 9:10 PM

Your problem is not uncommon; when two types of metering (Therms and Kg) are used for the same apparent fuel amount, there will almost always be a discrepancy between the two readings. Further complicating the matter is the fact that you are dealing with a natural product whose GCV (Gross Caloric Value) varies over time.

The supplier's meter is calibrated in Therms at a particular temperature and pressure, but knows nothing about the amount of moisture or the actual heating value of the fuel. It is up to the supplier to provide a guaranteed minimum heating value during the billing period, and the customer has to rely on (trust) those numbers, or provide his own real-time analysis if there is a dispute.

Your check meter(s) integrate the mass (kG) of fuel that passes through them, but have no way to know the amount of moisture that may contribute to that mass, nor the actual time-varying heating value of the mixture passing through it; therefore, there will always be a discrepancy between their measurements and yours.

For the above reasons, all you can do is track the monthly readings, run statistics on them, and see how closely match up to what you expect (aka "the bogey") over many averaged billing cycles. There is no direct fixed mathematical equation that will always be correct since the fuel quality is not deterministic.

Similarly for calculating the overall Heat Rate (British thermal units (Btu) per net kWh generated) of the plant, because it relies on those same statistically varying values.

__________________
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” Ben Franklin.
Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Register to Reply 9 comments

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

alikhankk (2); Codemaster (3); lyn (1); PWSlack (2); RAMConsult (1)

Previous in Forum: Skype Problem   Next in Forum: BTU/KWH

Advertisement