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Anonymous Poster #1

Combined Cycle, Turbine

04/17/2018 10:40 AM

Hello, I'm a student in an internship.

I am studying, scientifically and financially, the idea of adding a steam turbine to a gas turbine to produce more electricity (combined cycle) and increase performance of the powerplant. What are the steps that I should take?

Thank you very much.

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#2

Re: combined cycle , turbine

04/17/2018 10:49 AM

You should research the cost benefit of such a move, and consider if a new upgrade is viable...you might even explore other alternatives....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gas_turbine

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/can-carbon-dioxide-replace-steam-to-generate-power/

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#3

Re: combined cycle , turbine

04/17/2018 10:57 AM

I have done bibliographic research on the subject; now I want to know the calculation that I should do and formulas that I should take into consideration.

Thank you

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#4
In reply to #3

Re: combined cycle , turbine

04/17/2018 11:00 AM

You do realize that you have to actually read the material, right?

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#5

Re: combined cycle , turbine

04/17/2018 11:10 AM

I have data and information about the gas turbine (exhaust, emission, compressor, performance), I want to know how to exploit that exactly.

I want to know what the steps are to follow after bibliographic research (I am a final year engineering student).

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#6
In reply to #5

Re: combined cycle , turbine

04/17/2018 11:23 AM

Then this is appropriate material with which to help Anonymous Poster #1.

If Anonymous Poster #1 had used a CR4 username instead, then the information could be shared using CR4's internal messaging system.

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#7
In reply to #5

Re: combined cycle , turbine

04/17/2018 1:42 PM

You have to know how much energy you are producing, and the revenue generated by that...then you have to figure out how much generation capacity will be added and the cost of upgrading...then you have to determine the expected life of the system, and what the payback period will be....you will need to consult with several people, including the accountant to determine write off period and any tax or other incentive that may be gained....The additional revenue generated must exceed the cost of implementation by a comfortable margin....So you make a list of what it will cost in total, and the revenue total expected....You will probably have to go over the lists and totals several times to include everything, at each time you think you have all the figures, consult with knowledgeable people within the company and other pertinent entities to make sure you have included everything and that the costs and figures are accurate....then you add an expiration date, the length of time those figures are valid for....

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#8

Re: Combined Cycle, Turbine

04/17/2018 4:53 PM

What you are doing is well documented in the literature, as you should have learned in your bibliographic research. Collecting a bibliography is the first step, now you have to actually read that material, understand it, figure out what is appropriate to your problem, then use your research to solve it.

One thing you can't do is rely on professionals to do your work for you, until you have actually done your own work and have questions based on that work. Here's a hint, use the exhaust conditions of the gas turbine as the input conditions for your HRSG, and you will have solved the first step of a multistep process.

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#9

Re: Combined Cycle, Turbine

04/17/2018 8:11 PM

You will need some engineering for this as well.

Found an article here on the website which might help.

https://insights.globalspec.com/article/2895/combined-cycle-power-plants-is-their-reign-assured

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#11
In reply to #9

Re: Combined Cycle, Turbine

04/18/2018 9:49 PM

Found this on Google

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#10

Re: Combined Cycle, Turbine

04/18/2018 1:02 PM

In addition to what Ram Consultant said, also know that bolting a HRSG on the back of a combustion turbine will also cost you some MW because of exhaust back pressure (e.g. if you were putting out 150 MW before the conversion you may only get 140 MW after the conversion, but the HRSG if done properly will more than make up for those losses).

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#12

Re: Combined Cycle, Turbine

04/23/2018 9:59 AM

i want to know how to calculate the thermal power from the exhaust gases of the gas turbine
after doing biblio resaerch i found that it could be calculated by this formula ( W=m*Cp*T ) m=exhaust flow ; Cp=calorific value ; T=temperature of exhaust gases
is this true ?

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#13
In reply to #12

Re: Combined Cycle, Turbine

04/23/2018 12:27 PM

Have you done a dimensional analysis on that formula?

Have you found the same formula in more than one source?

Do you trust your own research?

To help us provide meaningful assistance, it would be useful if we knew what type of engineering discipline that you have studied.

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#14

Re: Combined Cycle, Turbine

04/23/2018 1:04 PM

i ve studied in my engineering courses= (thermodynamics,fluid mechanics,thermal transfer).

i ve found multiple formulas to calculate thermal power but depending on the data that i have of the gas turbine i think that the most suitable one was this:

( W=m*Cp*T ) m=exhaust flow ; Cp=calorific value ; T=temperature of exhaust gases

i want to know your opinion

thank you

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#15

Re: Combined Cycle, Turbine

04/25/2018 11:02 AM

i have all data on the gas turbine , so i take ehaust data of gas turbine and i consider it as an input for the steam turbine that going to be installed then i calculate thermal power with that formula and i search on internet PDFs of companies that shows how much they can produce electricity from this thermal power , efficiency , how much it cost ...and i give that to my company and they make the decision
according to you :
am i doing the right thing ?
am i supposed to know all the small details of the components (because i think its the job of the company whose going to install the steam turbine so the technics that will be used and the characteristics of the components it not really my job) ?
i think my real role here is to find companies and i find how much it cost , how much i can produce electricity ... am i right ?
thanks for your opinion

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#16
In reply to #15

Re: Combined Cycle, Turbine

04/25/2018 11:51 AM

Now you are on the right path. There are companies out there that specialize in components and others that specialize on providing a complete solution, and sometimes it's the same company. In reality this is an iterative task that requires far more detail than you were provided with, but you can observe how, and learn from, how all these tasks work together.

To be fair, it takes quite a few specialists in a multidisciplinary team to accurately perform the necessary analyses. It would be wise for you to ask who ever assigned this task to you, what exactly are the deliverables that is expected from you. At this point about all you can do is what is known as a high-level analysis that leaves the real work to the experts, and lets you see how the pieces fit together. That's the real value in your assignment.

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#17

Re: Combined Cycle, Turbine

04/25/2018 12:28 PM

i ve found difficulty finding a website or platform which i can found a PDFs or documents on companies that present information , data (tables,figure...) about installing steam turbines , efficiencies , financial details

if any one know a website or something it will be very helpful for me

thank you

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