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TOE Is A Bunch Of Dominoes

04/30/2018 7:22 PM

If you watch an elaborate domino demonstration,everything begins with one domino

triggering the entire process.It is easy to trace back to the source initially,but as it proceeds,the starting domino becomes harder to trace.

Imagine a very large number of dominoes...a Graham's number of dominoes,and that the process has been going on for 13.8 billion years.

And here we are,very far down the chain of events and there are many things that we consider random,but I contend that there is no such thing as random,merely things that we do not have the capacity to trace the initial action/reaction that started the so called random event.

We say there was a big bang,a single event that set everything in motion,and since there has to be a reaction for every action,then everything is a reaction to that first event.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAqGcLaE5II

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#1

Re: TOE is a bunch of dominoes

04/30/2018 8:37 PM

I find it ironic that you bring this up on the birthday of Johann Carl Friedrich Gauss.

There most definitely are purely random processes. If there weren't random processes then independent choice would also be precluded. Along with the loss of a lack of choice would be a loss of responsibility for one's actions.

I vehemently disagree with this idea that I have no choice in any matter. I am not pre-programmed by the Big Bang or anything else to doing only one thing. My choices and likely PDF (Probability Density Function) shape can be shaped by previous states and actions but I have a choice.

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#2
In reply to #1

Re: TOE is a bunch of dominoes

04/30/2018 8:42 PM

Let me add one final inquiring question. Why do you think a half a million domino topple reaction is a newsworthy event? It's newsworthy because nothing random happened to spoil the plan.

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#16
In reply to #1

Re: TOE is a bunch of dominoes

05/02/2018 12:17 PM

Now you border on the multiverse discussion. If reality is a collection of universes with a new one identified by each decision point, then if life is a thread, the multiverse is a block of felt where you make decisions and hop between threads. You have choice, but the threads are already there waiting to be used. All it takes is enough energy to keep the individual universes inflated and populated.

The deterministic approach requires an elimination of random. This is possible. you can make a system that by analysis appears random, but only because it is fixed like a Las Vegas slot machine. You just have to preset the random seed numbers.

I have trouble eliminating random, since the current models of reality include the quantum froth level at about 10 to the minus 26 meters size range. At that level, everything happens at once according to theory and the end result is what does not settle out once everything has happened. I see this as kind of a workroom for miracles to happen.

In the end, I like Slartibartfast's observation that the likelihood that I will actually know what is going on is so remote that the only response is to just get on with it. Like Slartibartfast, that does not make me happy.

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#3

Re: TOE is a bunch of dominoes

04/30/2018 8:59 PM

You said, "since there has to be a reaction for every action."

Newton's third law states that "For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction.

I find it difficult to apply that axiom to any and all actions without further qualification.

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#4

Re: TOE is a bunch of dominoes

04/30/2018 9:47 PM

I would have thought that the domino effect is a singularity, while random encounters has multiply solutions, and history.

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#5

Re: TOE is a bunch of dominoes

04/30/2018 11:11 PM

In classical physics, everything happens for a reason. In Quantum physics, apparently, stuff just happens. A uranium atom may eject an alpha particle in the next minute or a billion years from now, whenever it gets the urge, and AFAIK, there is no cause to determine when this effect will happen.

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#6
In reply to #5

Re: TOE is a bunch of dominoes

05/01/2018 8:14 AM

We make decisions based upon events that happen before that decision,likewise our thoughts.Each thought,no matter how original we think it is,is the result of preceding actions of neurons.

We do not have the ability to determine the prima facie starting point of our thoughts.

Even radioactive decay,previously thought to be totally random has been found to be influenced by sun spot activity.As to how this occurs remains unknown,but eventually will be revealed,as will some other "random events".

The extent of this unknown force is also currently unknown.

Perhaps other stars affect events on other scales on Earth and elsewhere,and the "random decay" is really just noise from all of the other stars in the universe.

https://www.popsci.com/science/article/2012-08/strange-unexplained-solar-influence-over-earths-radioactive-material-could-herald-solar-flares

I realize this stretches into the philosophical field,but science and philosophy are closely entangled,especially at the quantum level,where common sense need not apply.Which begs the question"Can logic here affect philosophy some where else in the universe via "spooky action at a distance",and vice versa?

"I reject your reality and substitute my own."

"I knew I was nuts when I read that you are what you eat.", said the squirrel.

OK,OK,enough of that,time for my pill....,,??red or blue?

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#7
In reply to #6

Re: TOE is a bunch of dominoes

05/01/2018 9:05 AM

So you're saying we're just parts of a cosmic domino structure?

My question for you is whether we can mathematically determine the outcome of a domino drop? and if so, can you expand it to cover the "Graham's number" of dominoes that cover the universe you describe?

Finally, what would the answer to that mathematical equation be?

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#9
In reply to #7

Re: TOE is a bunch of dominoes

05/01/2018 9:53 AM

I refer you to Asimov's book:The last question:

http://www.multivax.com/last_question.html

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#10
In reply to #7

Re: TOE is a bunch of dominoes

05/01/2018 10:03 AM

42

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#13
In reply to #7

Re: TOE is a bunch of dominoes

05/01/2018 3:44 PM

Currently,there is not enough computing power in the world to determine that,but in a Graham number of years,it may be possible,but by then cosmic inflation would have rendered the answer moot,as in the Asimov story I referenced.

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#8
In reply to #6

Re: TOE is a bunch of dominoes

05/01/2018 9:15 AM

"Influence" and "determine" are not synonyms no matter how easily you confuse them.

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#11
In reply to #8

Re: TOE is a bunch of dominoes

05/01/2018 10:04 AM

Although the first domino is the cause of all subsequent actions,when a sufficient number of dominoes have fallen,it becomes buried in the complexity and merely defined as an influence.

We still do not know the "cause" of the influence,that's true,and we may never know anything for certain.Everything is subjective,even reality.

The "cause" itself could be the result of another unseen influence.

"Is your red the same as my red?"

"Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain"

http://www.iflscience.com/health-and-medicine/your-red-same-my-red/

See Qualia

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#12
In reply to #6

Re: TOE is a bunch of dominoes

05/01/2018 10:11 AM

I agree that our thoughts and actions are likely determined by past events (experiences), i.e., by classical physics. Quantum phenomena are very delicate and are easily destroyed by contact with the environment (decoherence), which is why it is so difficult to build a quantum computer. The brain probably wouldn't provide that isolation, IMHO.

In regards to changes in radioactive decay rate, I'm thinking it was determined there was some measurement error in the original finding that the solar distance affected radioactive decay. The instruments used (gas detectors) were apparently affected by temperature and humidity.

"Scientists of the Physikalisch-Technische Bundesanstalt have now carried out new measurements and have published their results in the journal "Astroparticle Physics". For three years, they checked the activity of samples with 36Cl in order to detect possible seasonal dependencies. Whereas the US-Americans had determined the count rates with gas detectors, PTB used the so-called TDCR liquid scintillation method which largely compensates disturbing influences on the measurements. The result: The measurement results of PTB clearly show fewer variations and do not indicate any seasonal dependence or the influence of solar neutrinos. "We assume that other influences are much more probable as the reason for the observed variations", explains PTB physicist Karsten Kossert. "It is known that changes in the air humidity, in the air pressure and in the temperature can definitively influence sensitive detectors."

Read more at: https://phys.org/news/2014-10-textbook-knowledge-reconfirmed-radioactive-substances.html#jCp"

https://phys.org/news/2014-10-textbook-knowledge-reconfirmed-radioactive-substances.html

Causality is also muddied up by chaos, a result of nonlinearity, where a very small change in initial conditions is magnified over time. The common example is the weather and the butterfly effect.

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#14
In reply to #12

Re: TOE is a bunch of dominoes

05/01/2018 3:47 PM

You obviously have too much time on your hands...

What have you contributed to your community, lately?...

Rather devising more obtuse (entertainments) for yourself, why not apply your (mental energy) to helping someone other than yourself?...

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#15
In reply to #14

Re: TOE is a bunch of dominoes

05/02/2018 11:40 AM

Ahhh, so there are at least ''8'' of you ''...off-topic inquistitors''...

Now I know..., and so do the rest of the CR4 readers...

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#17
In reply to #15

Re: TOE is a bunch of dominoes

05/02/2018 7:28 PM

Ohhh, it is so nice to be so (appreciated)...

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#18
In reply to #17

Re: TOE is a bunch of dominoes

05/03/2018 8:10 AM

MR. Guest you make a good point. In these "First World" countries (of course, I'm making an assumption here) volunteering and community service have taken a back seat to sitting at home reading facebook (and the obligatory engineering forum) complaining or, worse yet, trolling, insulting or arguing.

Here in the US, there used to be groups that promoted community service, Kiwanis, Lions, Knight's of Columbus, etc. In my area they've largely disappeared. It's truly disappointing.

That being said, HiTekRedNek is not out of line musing about the origin of the universe or how it works. I just hope that his query is just a little of his recreational time and not his main focus in life. I suspect the former is true.

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#19
In reply to #18

Re: TOE is a bunch of dominoes

05/03/2018 12:46 PM

It's hard to estimate which, based on the lengths, and frequencies, of his (musings), in contrast with his number of community contributions he has referenced so far...

In any case, here's a ''GA'' from myself to you for writing a well thought-out, responsible, mature, ''engineering-type'' of answer. Thankyou...

You might try Bing-ling something like (community+service+organization+volunteer) to get an idea of what (still) is available in your area...

(It might take 6 separate GA's for you get credit for just a ''1 Good Answer'', though...)

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#20
In reply to #18

Re: TOE is a bunch of dominoes

02/07/2019 8:17 AM

You are right,it is simply an idle musing.I am retired and have plenty of time to mull things over,and as the sand runs out of life's hour glass,I ponder even more,occasionally encouraged by a sip of good Scotch.(Which,when combined with bi-focals, may explain some of my calculating errors)

Here is an interesting take on relativity:

<bottom>https://www.bbc.com/reel/video/p04s223f/physics-suggests-that-the-future-has-already-happened

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