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Anonymous Poster #1

How to Prevent an Overload at Homes

06/07/2018 8:15 AM

Hello guys, i was looking for means to prevent overload in my home( i saw the damages that it produces in my neighbor's place) and i found this article: http://tccelectricalcontent.com/prevent-circuit-overload/.

Do you find it enough for prevention and what is a non-conventional sizing( i am an electrical engineering student by the way). Thanks!!

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#1

Re: how to prevent an overload at homes

06/07/2018 8:19 AM

Compliance with the appropriate and applicable national electrical code is the key. For example, in the UK it would be British Standard 7671.

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#4
In reply to #1

Re: how to prevent an overload at homes

06/07/2018 11:34 AM

Unfortunately, in many parts of the world, electrical codes are either non existent or obsolete, and generally not enforced.

Having lived in Mexico, I can attest to this. Most of the residences where I lived had only 115V, 30A service, With increasing prosperity, the were filled with modern electrical appliances. To handle the extra load, they would just install higher amperage fuses or circuit breakers. Only because the houses were built from concrete and brick, they didn't burn down. I remember in my house, when I turned on my coffee maker (1200W) in the morning, all the lights in the house would dimm.

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#12
In reply to #4

Re: how to prevent an overload at homes

06/08/2018 2:41 AM

Because <...in many parts of the world, electrical codes are either non existent or obsolete, and generally not enforced...> there is generally no <...means to prevent overload in...home...>.

There is no <...Unfortunately...> in the equation.

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#2

Re: How to Prevent an Overload at Homes

06/07/2018 9:46 AM

You should know the size of each circuit and what amperage every appliance requires...Use an amp probe to measure actual current draw on each circuit with everything on...

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#3
In reply to #2

Re: How to Prevent an Overload at Homes

06/07/2018 11:09 AM

Ahem - er - that's for the installer to do, not the user. It is the installer's responsibility to make sure that the installation is safe for the user.

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#5
In reply to #3

Re: How to Prevent an Overload at Homes

06/07/2018 12:02 PM

Well aren't you the trusting soul....what about plug-in's?

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#6

Re: How to Prevent an Overload at Homes

06/07/2018 12:38 PM

Don't you study the movement of electrons through conductors in EE?

As PWSlack said, electrical codes, obsolete or not, are a useful guide.

Not knowing where you are located precludes any authoritative answers from coming forward.

To answer your question, yes http://tccelectricalcontent.com/prevent-circuit-overload/ would be a good guide for the uninitiated.

If you try to push too much water through a pipe resistance builds up quickly. Resistance causes heat somewhere in the system. Same is true with electrical conductors. Try to push too many electrons through them and they get very hot. That's how incandescent light bulbs work.

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Anonymous Poster #2
#7

Re: How to Prevent an Overload at Homes

06/07/2018 3:44 PM

To the original poster

Dont take offense to the constant bickering and nonsense here

What you will find on this forum is several people really just enjoying more pissing matches then they do helping others

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#8

Re: How to Prevent an Overload at Homes

06/07/2018 3:56 PM

To the original poster:

We also have trolls who add nothing to the forum, but find a certain joy in causing problems for legitimate posters. Anonymous Poster #2 is a perfect example of that.

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#14
In reply to #8

Re: How to Prevent an Overload at Homes

06/08/2018 10:33 AM

You sir are exactly the reason this forum suffers

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#9

Re: How to Prevent an Overload at Homes

06/07/2018 5:02 PM

In the article that you referred to, http://tccelectricalcontent.com/prevent-circuit-overload/. Item 4 "Non-convential sizing" is incorrect in the example they gave. Protecting #12 conductors (rated for 20A) with a 15A breaker would not be a problem.

What I think they meant to say is that using a 30A breaker in this circuit would be a definite hazard! What they are attempting to say is the circuit protection ( fuse or breaker) must be sized to the capacity of the conductors in the circuit, and the conductors be sized to the expected load on the circuit.

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#10
In reply to #9

Re: How to Prevent an Overload at Homes

06/07/2018 5:40 PM

We have similar issues in PR, USVI is worse. In my place the 110 devices are on one phase, the other is used for 220 only. It is great for my 1800 watt invertor generator, I can run all the devices (not simultaneously) with it.

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#11

Re: How to Prevent an Overload at Homes

06/07/2018 5:58 PM

I'm going to add this: If you are a new electrical engineering student, the subject of circuit protection is a significant branch of the science, and technology that you are studying. It applies not only to your house, but from the little circuit that you might want to build, to the entire power network that supplies your home your city, and your nation.

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#13

Re: How to Prevent an Overload at Homes

06/08/2018 2:55 AM

When I had a new bathroom built, I thought it was also a good idea to redo the electrics. I discovered that I had a mains leadin rated at 240V 40A only. The electric stove alone was on a 30A sub circuit. Also sub circuits used wire fuses. Switchboard box was wood with asbestos lining and mounting board was made of pitch-impregnated asbestos.

Got the electrician in and for $1600 and peace of mind, I got a new mains leadin rated at 80A, a new plastic switchboard with circuit breakers, and MEN earth leakage breakers tripping at 30mA . Regs insisted that he test all sub circuits, powered and unpowered. They all passed. Can't ask better than that.

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#16
In reply to #13

Re: How to Prevent an Overload at Homes

06/09/2018 10:02 AM

Do not be happy you got a new plastic switchboard! The wiring regs here were amended Jan 2016, so that all domestic distribution boards must be non-combustible, in practice - steel.

Reason was - London Fire Brigade was getting 3 home fires a week (pattern repeated across country) due to fires in dis. bd. Since many such are under stairs, cutting off [burning] escape route, deaths resulted, including firemen trying to reach trapped people.

Major basic cause was overheating of main connections - joints not tight enough plus increased loading due to more electrical kit - especially electric showers - with big loads.

Tests showed plastic enclosures just melted/sagged, letting flames out. Although tests with existing steel enclosures showed the ""circuit breaker" holes in steel did not let dangerous flame out, all new steel enclosures have a steel cover/door over breakers. I note that even recently installed 3 phase steel boards have all-plastic catches to hold steel door shut.

Looking back over my time with electricity, home dis boards have moved from wood to thermo-setting plastic [which at least will not deform or melt so easily] to thermo plastics which soften & let hot parts move together.

Sure, the modern plastics have fire-retardants, but that just means they have to be hotter to burn & make more toxic fumes & smoke. Nearly all common plastics burn and are made from oil & give out heat equivalent to same weight of motor car fuel.

Will those plastic MCBs still work OK if overheated? Particularly RCDs and RCBOs [earth leakage protection, usually 30 mA] which now are electronic - is the electronics designed to trip on over-temperature?

I look at a 50 year old dis board/wiring in a community centre I know and consider if new gear will be a total improvement. It is heavy steel with a strong door held shut by two steel wing-nuts; fuses are rewirable in porcelain with asbestos inserts - nothing in there which can burn except the cables and minimal busbar insulation. Because the fuses were re-wirable, wires were 50% more cross-section for the same current than with cartridge fuses or breakers - that makes for a much longer actual service life when no-one overloads the circuit & less volt drop.

Looking at national statistics, population 60 million, only 20 people a year die due to electrocution, but 2.5 million get a shock, with 350,000 serious injuries. About 50 die in domestic 20,000 fires started by electricity only 10% of which are due to fixed installation rather than an appliance.

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#15

Re: How to Prevent an Overload at Homes

06/08/2018 4:54 PM

AP1,

I have always been cautious when I work with a brand new engineer or architect, because their knowledge is so incomplete. Best for them to work in the field for 1-2 years before doing engineering or architectural work.

The article you mentioned has many partial statements, which can be confusing and (because it is incomplete) lead you the wrong way.

  • The "non-conventional sizing" is an example, as another poster has already mentioned. Many times a larger wire size is used to reduce the voltage drop on a long circuit, or because they didn't have the smaller size, or because that is the procedure or policy for that worker, or ....
  • The article mentions loading a circuit to 80% of the capacity of the circuit breaker or fuse, but fails to mention that this is the code rule for continuous loads. For non-continuous loads (defined as running for less than 3 hours), 100% loading is permitted.
  • Wire gauge is a standard originally based on how many dies the copper wire is drawn through, each one a little smaller in diameter. So the larger the gauge number the smaller the wire!
  • Aluminum wire or copper coated aluminum wire is still manufactured. If installed in full accordance with the rules for preventing corrosion it offers considerable cost savings. The historical problem in homes and similar small circuits was the termination on a device and in a way that couldn't accept the wire's greater thermal expansion coefficient and greater ductibility, as well as the inherent resistance of the oxide film that forms very rapidly on exposed unprotected aluminum. This film has a much higher resistance than the much more slowly formed oxide on copper. In all of these installations you have a 100% guarantee that overheating and failure will occur, often with a resulting fire.
  • Circuit breakers are tested and listed for use in the panels made by the same manufacturer. In a few cases the breakers are tested and listed for use in other manufacturers' panels. So the general rule is that even though the breaker will physically fit and connect to the bus in the panel, if it is from a different manufacturer, then it shouldn't be used. It may work perfectly well, but you won't have any support/defense if it doesn't.

So to you, AP1, I strongly recommend you apprentice yourself to one or more contractors. Also, study the code(s), and any texts that teach you why the codes have their various rules. Generally, the codes are NOT an instruction book for how to do the work, but a standard against which the completed work is judged. Ask a lot of questions. The young child's Why?? is a good tool for learning.

--JMM

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#17

Re: How to Prevent an Overload at Homes

06/21/2018 2:21 AM

Since you are an electrical student you must know the maximum safe current capacities of the electrical cables installed in your home now. Next is for you to buy a good ammeter/voltmeter tester. Last is for you to turn on all your electrical loads at the same time and patiently take measurements of all the electrical supply wires leading to the appliances. Make a list and review.

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