Chinese Silk Fabric Dyes: Is there lead in them?

M'am,

I have a friend who jogs 8 miles a day and has for years. Does not and has not ever smoked. He now has lung cancer. How he prided himself regarding his diet, his way of life. He fretted and concerned himself with the minutia of matters regarding health. At times I envied him for his steadfast adherence to these concerns.

It would seem that his cancer was developed as a result of breathing excessive amounts of air pollution. It further seems that the intense and heavy, labored breathing of automobile exhaust over the years is the culprit to his illness.

So, without out being disrespectful, are silk blouses really worth the concern? One of the most amazing gifts on earth is silk. It has been so for millenia. My advice? Enjoy your blouses. Turn off the TV.

Regards,

Charles R Rummel III

Bravo CR3 !

Some perspective at last!

If the colours survive washing I daresay they probably won't leach out in any significant amount even allowing for sweating on them or the occaisional licking of spilled gravy off 'em... (and assuming they did have lead in 'em!)

How many homes have had lead water pipes for years with no ill effects....?

Just chill and enjoy the blouses ....

How many homes have had lead water pipes for years with no ill effects....?

Agreed. The media couples with the alarmists to provoke a fear-based society..

I grew up in an area that was rated one of the places in the US with the highest levels of lead in the tap water. Later more intensive studies have attempted to follow the lives of the children that grew up in these areas and to determine whether the lead had any affect on their development. As the studies unfold, they're beginning to see a correlation between behavioral problems and problems with scholastic development in these people.

If you really are a doctor, then you know that lead (and other heavy metals) have a much more profound effect on the little ones sitting around you in your avatar. While children in these areas did not wind up with the type of toxicity that appeared in the Minamata disaster (which was caused by mercury), they may in fact have suffered some damage regarding their cognitive and scholastic abilities.

Are you so certain in your convictions that you would be willing make your own children drink all their water from old lead pipes? Please let me know about that.

C Rummel3,

Was this the cause specified by the doctor? Andy Kaufman also died of lung cancer and never smoked. Like most organelle cancers, there are usually several different types. Small cell lung cancer has nothing to do with smoke, but is very nasty.

Just curious.

I believe a genetic pre-dispositon was involved.

Yes, that was my thought. I've known several women that have developed lung cancer out of nowhere. In fact, I heard a statistic the other day that stated the leading cause of death among women is not breast cancer, but lung cancer. That's friggin' scary!

Roy Castle was a well known figure in Brit entertainment. He never smoked, yet died of lung Cancer. Before dying he very publicly attributed this to many years of playing the Trumpet in smoke-filled rooms. His emphasis was on the smoke, but I wonder if being a Trumpet player had any part in that itself. He was a dying person so I wouldn't begrudge him feeling angry, but angry at who ? The association of smoking and lung-cancer has been known for years, and I'd of thought there was an evident risk of passive smoking when you look across a smoke filled room.

Smoke-based lung cancer is a very specific type that is different from all other lung cancers. It this determination has not been made, then what can you say.

Best way to be sure is to buy the inexpensive lead tester kit and test them yourself

See:

http://www.jasco-help.com/products/paintaccessories/02/instructions.html

It may be available at these stores in the paint accessory's area

http://www.jasco-help.com/assistance/find/index.html

silk is a protein and they use lead free dyes in them.

While aurizon has given you probably the most informed answer, I think it's OK to be suspicious, especially where youngsters are concerned. While adults are much more resistant to heavy metal poisoning, it seems to have a far more powerful effect on kids. And if not too late, the cure (chelating) really sucks! Besides, you will more than likely build an ongoing lead load during a lifetime, why give your kids a head start.

If it's from China, then check it to be sure because there is no enforcement of safe lead levels in products manufactured there. Chinese manufacturers add lead to save money and to enhance the usability of products, regardless of any effects it may have on the end user. They put lead in tea to increase the weight so they're capable of anything.

Oh my God, your kidding me!!!

One of the many reasons why the FDA was established was the use of lead based coloring in candy! That was pure undiluted ignorance. But it sounds as if the entrepreneurs in China need a soul transplant!!!

There goes that old double standard again....

I don't see how? The guys in China are smart enough to know that lead is a bad thing in the human diet.

Yeh, ok but ... this is all stuff that was going on elsewhere 50 years ago...

It seems to be a one way China bashing site at the moment...

Weren't Goodyear knowingly selling bad tyres a while back?

And anyhow the lead in tea is heresay...and why would you adulterate tea with a relatively expensive material like lead? Use sand or iron ...sounds fishy to me.

I've heard the've been lacing babyfood with depleted uranium in the US... any truth in that?

As a Chinese manufacturer, I would like to say, normally, all the goods head for US or EU should be very safe and good in quality, there are only a small bit of goods (1%)that maybe exist problems, particularly on the low-end products, such as toys, clothes or materials, of course, the producer and China should take on responsibilities for this, but, I think the US wholesalers should bear the major blames, to be frank, all the way, the price is paramount concern for them, and always bargain for lower price, one time by one time, there is no profits left really, since they are very very very in need of US customers, for some mercenary producers, the only and last choice showed on the table.

Lead is most likely to be used where coloured pigments are required. Some of the best and longest lasting pigments are lead based and cheap,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead_paint

dyes that bind to the fibers of a cloth are not dangerous as they are bound and the amounts are very low compared to pigments.

Yep, remember when the paint on your car could take a lot of hits from small road debris, and not get a chip or scratch? That was when car paint was based on lead and other toxic materials.

The EPA (among others) decided that these paints were too dangerous for the auto workers, and they were phased out for softer, less toxic, acrylic paints.

Now a days, if you're restoring an old car, it's a dirty little secret among the restorers, that you take your car to Mexico where some poor guy will shoot the toxic stuff on the car for cheap.

There is absolutely no excuse in what you have posted.

I would agree with you that most stuff coming from China is of good quality and are fine products. However, no matter how small, or poorly run, a manufacturing company is, there is absolutely NO excuse for using dangerous or toxic materials in there process, even if this means they will go out of business. Losing one's business is tragic, but it is NO justification for breaking the law or endangering peoples health. If you really feel as if financial hardship is an excuse for a Chinese manufacturer to risk people's health, then perhaps the old, and ugly, stereotype of Asians (especially communists) not placing a very high value on human life, may actually be true - at least, according to your words.

The US just put a meat company out of business (Topps Meat, Inc.), by forcing them to recall tons of their potentially tainted meat patties. The company could not withstand the loss of money and subsequently had to close. We do not let companies sell contaminated products to ANYONE, even if it means a company must go out of business. To do anything other than that would make the federal government an accomplice to crimes that would include random acts of murder.

If some poor fellow in Shanghai loses his business, that is a shame. However, that is absolutely no justification or excuse for that company to put anyone's life at risk just for the sake of their financial existence!

I don't consider this China bashing, it's manufacturing bashing.

Yes, years ago, there were many abuses in foods, drugs, and products in the US, but we're talking like 80 years ago (at least 50 for the intense stuff). Most of this was ignorance on the part of the producer. So, we created a federal agency whose business was to say "Prove that your products are safe before you sell them." As a matter of fact, this is also why the UL has been doing such a good job in the States for years.

Now, a LOT is known about poisons, carcinogens, and unsafe design. It's no longer an act of ignorance, it's a lack of caring for the customer or, at least, these producers are trying to rationalize there actions - "Oh, a little lead in the paint won't hurt anyone" or I'll just do it this one time."

We have literally fought a war inside this country to make corporate America responsible for their interactions with their consumers. It did not come easy. It was not a natural event that just happened to happen. We had to fight very hard against corporate interests in this country. And I for one am damn certain that I am not going to give carte blanche power back to companies, no matter what happens!

I don't know why Reebok hasn't named the alledged Chinese maker of Charm-Bracelets that killed some kid. Anyone know ?

I'd watch alternative medicine as well.

Now that's an interesting one to discus....

How on earth can a huge company like Reebok buy something that is virtually solid lead....?

Could it be 'cos they are happy to exploit 3rd world sweat shops and hawk supposed 'added value' to gullible consumers?

It's that double standard again... big companies are happy to exploit cheap labour then squeal when they find poor quality...

More pertinently they don't find the poor quality 'cos they havn't used any of the quality systems which they should...and it end up getting to the customer.

I think a lot of importers know exactly what they're doing. "Gosh, that cute charm bracelet has a nice attractive heavy feel to it, we just won't ask too many questions about what it's made of . 'Silver' at that price will sell real good ". Plausible ignorance my ****.

Is this where the question is at ? Here is some general info from the FDA.

a search on leaded silk and leaded-silk produces very few hits, as if there is no commerce at all in this commodity that one references 100,000,000 yards of leaded silk being sold.

possibly the term leaded does not refer to lead, but to some term used in the fabric trade?

Hmm. I thought it was something to do with the colours/silk-screen process/lead acetate use. Got myself kind of confused with all that. I doubt anyone has met serious injury with a silk Kimono. Apparently somebody is making genetically modified silk-worms that produce different coloured thread (and other medical applications as well). Lead based paints and plumbing (well the word does kind of give the game away) are more likely risks than others, though accidental direct ingestion of lead is pretty bad news. Cosmetics ( especially hair products they get some kind of exemption from lead use) are not exactly safe. I'll try figure out some more if I have time.

There's something I'm curious about. Every time the subject of unsafe products from China comes out, everybody is quick to bash capitalism and greedy Western companies seeking quick profits. Has anybody here ever heard of Slim 10? It was supposed to be an all-natural slimming product using only herbs used for weight loss in traditional Chinese medicine for centuries. It was made by a 100% indigenous Chinese firm, with no foreign capitalists involved. In reality, its active ingredient was the lethal (and internationally banned) weight loss drug Fenfluramine. Hundreds of women across Asia became deathly ill as a result of consuming this product; dozens of them died of liver failure as a result of it. One of the women who became critically ill was a friend of my friend's wife. And the Chinese government never publicly revealed the fate of the culprits behind this poison posing as a health supplement.

I'm not bashing China here; rather, I'm saying this subject should be viewed objectively. Just like Western importers should be pressured to ensure the quality of their imports from China (or anywhere else, for that matter) are up to requisite safety standards even if it costs them more, so too should the Chinese government be pressured into ensuring that their companies adhere to these same internationally mandated standards instead of making silly excuses such as the safety standards are too tough. And likewise, the problem should be dealt with at source: illegal cost-cutting measures by the manufacturers and distributors, not finger-pointing at one another.

The Chinese are experts in denial, like Cleopatra, they are all queens of denial.

They have a controlled press, so they deny and obfuscate and hope it will all go away. When finally caught they round up the usual suspects and kill one or more = problem solved.

Every time the subject of unsafe products from China comes out, everybody is quick to bash capitalism and greedy Western companies seeking quick profits.

Ah... Interesting...

I felt the converse was true which is why I started trying to voice the other view..

e.g I was sooo fed up with the persistent China bashing whilst myopically ignoring any misdemeanours nearer home..

I've obviously redressed the balance by now..

My work here is done.....

Prowls off silently into the night....

I have had the pleasure if working with multinational engineering teams for many years now.

What I wish to add here is simply an opinion based on observation.

Many countries, particularly Asian and Middle Eastern, are HIGHLY intolerant of companies that degrade the international or host companies impression of them. China, Jordan, Yugoslavian etc, companies have had to work very hard to get access to many of the foreign markets that they now have limited access to. If a mismanaged company shames that companies host country or market there is a quick and certain internal handling of these issues.

I can cite experiences that took place in my work groups in Boston MA (Digital Electronics) Portland OR (Komatsu), Portland OR (Intel). Men on these projects took a great deal of pride in the work and seemed to look at their presence there as one of great importance in the furthering of a bigger cause and loyal nationalism. I have seen senior foreign management lash out so violently that our management had to ask that they resolve their internal disciplinary actions behind closed doors. The foreign guest management did not understand. They wanted to make it known publicly how they handled 'incompetency'. Telling a man to pack his belongings before a gathered group, in a display of public shame, was not uncommon either.

These observations are a bit apple and orange in some regards, but I can't help but imagine the backlash that has resulted within companies of some of the recent toy and other recalls.

On a side note. Go into your local mass toy store such as Toys R Us (I was there this weekend) ther should be a cork board with all the recalls posted. It is a bit alarming to this father of many. Lead paint is perhaps the least of my concerns.

CR3

http://home.att.net/~ShipModelFAQ/smf-q052.html judging by the effort involved in producing such stuff, the name may be a throwback describing a finish rather than the makeup of the material. Lead pipes for your water are protected by keeping the water alkaline with dissolved lime, which coats the inside of the pipes and ensures no lead dissolves into solution. I still have a lead pipe into my house. I had some paint chippings analysed at work, they are 20% lead. Don't make dust, just paint over the top is the official advice. This sounds like a scare story taking its lead (that's lead) from the Mattel toy story with the intention of generating anti-Chinese feelings, as Del said. The press don't do any fact checking these days.