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Polar 150 Guillotine Won't Cut

02/25/2019 8:23 AM

Hi, I have a polar 150 guillotine which won't cut. The blade won't move. There is no oil coming from the bleed screw and I think that's the problem. Does anyone have any info on this problem?

Thanks

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#1

Re: Polar 150 Guillotine Won't Cut

02/25/2019 8:44 AM

Sounds as if it's siezed up due to lack of maintenance. Sorry.

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#4
In reply to #1

Re: Polar 150 Guillotine Won't Cut

02/25/2019 9:00 AM

It has been maintained and moves manually

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#33
In reply to #4

Re: Polar 150 Guillotine Won't Cut

02/27/2019 9:17 AM

Does it cut manually?

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#2

Re: Polar 150 Guillotine Won't Cut

02/25/2019 8:47 AM

Sounds like oil might need to be coming from the bleed screw.

What's between the screw and the reservoir?

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#3
In reply to #2

Re: Polar 150 Guillotine Won't Cut

02/25/2019 8:58 AM

Hi, thanks for your reply. Looks like just a pipe to the reservoir but only a small, floor level opening so difficult to check exactly where it goes. There is a vane pump in the reservoir but not sure if this just feeds the clamp. I cant work out what pumps the oil

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#5

Re: Polar 150 Guillotine Won't Cut

02/25/2019 9:33 AM

<...Does anyone have any info on this problem...> Yes. These people have everything needed to solve this problem and much more.

To save time, and to avoid both endless email ping-pong and games of "20 Questions", which is what this thread risks becoming, try picking up the phone and talking to them.

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#6
In reply to #5

Re: Polar 150 Guillotine Won't Cut

02/25/2019 9:53 AM

They don't have to do that. It should be obvious what is the problem, I'm pointing right at it.

Look.

Look closer!

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#7
In reply to #6

Re: Polar 150 Guillotine Won't Cut

02/25/2019 10:19 AM

Quite.

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#8

Re: Polar 150 Guillotine Won't Cut

02/25/2019 10:42 AM

My God man!

Do you not have an owners manual? Read it. A telephone?

Do as PWSlack suggested and call (or e-mail) the manufacturer!!

Go on line and look for a trouble shooting guide.

polar cutter troubleshooting

You give no helpful clues here. Is it plugged in? Does it make any noise? Does it make a different noise? We can't read minds, and we can't see or hear the machine.

Call the man!

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#9
In reply to #8

Re: Polar 150 Guillotine Won't Cut

02/25/2019 10:56 AM

Due to the age of the machine I cant find any manuals even from the manufacturer so obviously I don't have them and have looked for trouble shooting guides.

Its powers up and clamps. It does the extra pressure clamp when pressing the cut buttons but the blade wont move. At this point I would expect oil from the bleed screw but nothing. Its had a new vane pump but I don't know if this just feeds the clamp and not the blade.

Does anyone know what the vane pump feeds please?

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#10
In reply to #9

Re: Polar 150 Guillotine Won't Cut

02/25/2019 11:18 AM

It sounds like a safeguard on this machine has failed. The machine is preventing the owner from risking employees. Hire a reputable repair firm to look at this unit or buy a new one.

Even after I pointed to the root of the problem you still don't get it. You are clearly not qualified to work on it. Hire somebody who is qualified.

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#11
In reply to #10

Re: Polar 150 Guillotine Won't Cut

02/25/2019 11:28 AM

Manufacturer cant help. Company who we bought it from have been out and cant help which is why I assumed someone on a forum would be helpful - guess not!

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#12
In reply to #11

Re: Polar 150 Guillotine Won't Cut

02/25/2019 12:29 PM

Did you check any of the troubleshooting guides I sent?

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#15
In reply to #12

Re: Polar 150 Guillotine Won't Cut

02/25/2019 1:50 PM

Lyn, I had a look but couldn't see any relating to the machine I have and the fault. Thanks anyway and Ill keep looking

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#13
In reply to #11

Re: Polar 150 Guillotine Won't Cut

02/25/2019 1:06 PM

.. from the title of the post I was thinking that "polar guillotine" was the media creating a new name for the weather system in the US right now.

Brrrrt..

Now I think it's the name of the welcoming committee that you've met.

What a bunch of horribly unwelcome replies..

Try to ignore the crab apples and sooner or later someone will chime in with a human response that may help.

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#17
In reply to #13

Re: Polar 150 Guillotine Won't Cut

02/25/2019 2:01 PM

Thanks JE

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#19
In reply to #13

Re: Polar 150 Guillotine Won't Cut

02/25/2019 2:59 PM

You flaming hypocrite!

What possible value did you add to this post NONE. You simply spewed sour grapes at those you seem to have a beef with.

I offered him a website to look at. Redfred offered very good advice.

How could this possibly help the OP? It just make you look like a child!!!.

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#22
In reply to #19

Re: Polar 150 Guillotine Won't Cut

02/25/2019 5:30 PM

Right

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#31
In reply to #11

Re: Polar 150 Guillotine Won't Cut

02/27/2019 2:48 AM

Don't give up on this forum yet. There are a lot of people on this site that do try to give constructive comment and assistance, though you may not have seen this in many of the comments so far.

I do not know this machine at all, but it does sound like some sort of protection device is preventing movement.

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#25
In reply to #9

Re: Polar 150 Guillotine Won't Cut

02/26/2019 3:26 AM

<...Does anyone know what the vane pump feeds please?...>

Yes. The equipment manufacturer does. How did the phone call(s) go? How did setting-up a service visit go?

  • The equipment obviously isn't a strategic resource at the facility, otherwise it would be up and running again by now. Therefore there would be little to justify replacement with a new item.
  • There is clearly a need at the facility to improve standards of record-keeping for maintenance activity if this equipment, and the blather surrounding its current non-operational condition, is an indication of the whole.
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#27
In reply to #25

Re: Polar 150 Guillotine Won't Cut

02/26/2019 9:04 AM

Be careful PW. The trolls have spoken that on-site troubleshooting by a qualified individual is not permitted here.

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#32
In reply to #27

Re: Polar 150 Guillotine Won't Cut

02/27/2019 9:16 AM

Commonsense is also in short supply these days. Two sets of off-topic voting on the matter is quite impressive, though it does seem the feature is being used instead as a "don't like that/bu%%er off" voting button instead.

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#14

Re: Polar 150 Guillotine Won't Cut

02/25/2019 1:10 PM

It seems you have hydraulic or clutch failure possibly due to poor practice of changing knife in a timely manner....

..."Well that’s probably way past the point the knife needed changing. Power cutters today are extremely strong and will cut though a lift of paper with a very dull knife. What operators don’t realize is how much wear and tear this puts on the cutter.

It’s hard on the hydraulic cylinders and clutch systems. Operators will run the maximum clamping pressure in an attempt to compensate for excessive draw on lift of paper. It’s also hard on the clamping linkage.

With repeated use of dull knives, you cause a lot of premature and expensive damage to the machine. And of course the cut quality also suffers with a dull knife. This could all be avoided by simply keeping a sharp knife in the cutter."...

..."Andre: According to Polar, in their manual Cutting in Practice, 70% of all cutting problems are due to the “wrong knife angle, or the knife quality does not fit the material to be cut.” Then they go on to list over 50 types of material with suggested knife angles. I counted at least 17 different knife angles, with combinations of single and double-bevel, including a variety of angles and lengths.

Dave: What is important to understand is that most of us get along fine with the standard knife. When trouble strikes, we should not always blame the machine for problems caused by the knife. Instead, we should have that conversation with the knife vendor or cutter manufacturer. Printers will rarely change a knife based on the stock they will be cutting. Most don’t even know what angle they use. They just wonder if the knife is sharp or dull.

Andre: When I first started in the bindery, we cut an awful mix of SBS, chipboard, cover stocks and then mixed in a lot of book weight papers. And we did it with standard steel knives. After some years of ‘education’ from a good knife guy, we finally added an inventory of knives to include 2 or 3 knife angles and high speed steel to match what we happened to be cutting. The right knife with the right paper gave us a huge boost in cutting productivity and the upgrade paid for itself quickly.

Just to summarize, it sounds like three simple practices will keep your guillotine cutter humming along:

  1. Keep a sharp knife in the machine at all times
  2. Use the right knife steel to suit your operation
  3. Use the right knife angle for the job you’re cutting

Thanks Dave for you input on this topic. You can reach Dave Double online at http://dblequip.com. If you want to do some more some in-depth reading on the subject of guillotine cutting practices, download Cutting in Practice here. (pdf opens in new browser window)"...

http://cdn2.hubspot.net/hub/75733/file-28996090-pdf/docs/cutting-in-practice.pdf

http://www.technifoldusa.com/bindery-success-blog/bid/88231/Are-You-Making-These-3-Mistakes-with-Your-Guillotine-Cutter

http://www.guillotine-tech.com/Polar?sort=p.price&order=DESC

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#16
In reply to #14

Re: Polar 150 Guillotine Won't Cut

02/25/2019 2:00 PM

Hi, the blade has not been changed for years. Its still razor sharp but I agree either clutch or hydraulic problem. As there isn't any oil from the bleed screw I'm going with hydraulics. Thanks

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#18
In reply to #16

Re: Polar 150 Guillotine Won't Cut

02/25/2019 2:59 PM

Well you need to troubleshoot the machine....guessing gets expensive quick...might just be a micro switch or something...

https://www.wakefieldmachinery.co.uk/guillotine-servicing/

http://www.compoundmfg.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=9_12&zenid=ffb1f9b62fbeda6db42ea00e4ba6008a

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#23
In reply to #18

Re: Polar 150 Guillotine Won't Cut

02/25/2019 10:29 PM
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#20

Re: Polar 150 Guillotine Won't Cut

02/25/2019 3:55 PM

Here is a link to a person that claims to have info on the cutter:

https://www.colorprintingforum.com/threads/polar-guillotine-manual.11734/

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#35
In reply to #20

Re: Polar 150 Guillotine Won't Cut

02/27/2019 10:12 AM

Thanks, sent an email but no reply yet

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#43
In reply to #35

Re: Polar 150 Guillotine Won't Cut

03/04/2019 5:20 AM

Then follow it up with a !

It isn't obvious to this forum that this machine is wanted back in service, due to procrastination on the part of the Original Poster. Time is money!

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#21

Re: Polar 150 Guillotine Won't Cut

02/25/2019 4:16 PM

First, My sympathy

I have had to deal with one of these monsters in the past.

First of all the, US importer, Heidelberg-Harris will not support or service these old machines as they do not conform to current OSHA standards.

The electrical control system is neither repairable nor replaceable. We finally scrapped ours and replaced it with a modern unit from a different manufacturer. That was 10 years ago.

That said, The blade is strictly mechanically driven from a fly wheel through a hydraulically operated clutch/brake. Your problem may just be that the blade is not exactly at top dead center when you start the cut cycle.

The first thing to try is to manually cycle the blade and position it at TDC. You will need to access the clutch through the plastic cover on the right hand side of the machine. You will need the two shoulder screws included in the tool kit that hopefully came with the machine. In a CR4 post that I made around 2007 I gave a detailed description of this procedure.

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#24
In reply to #21

Re: Polar 150 Guillotine Won't Cut

02/26/2019 12:11 AM
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#29
In reply to #24

Re: Polar 150 Guillotine Won't Cut

02/26/2019 9:27 AM

Yes, I am referring to the first link.

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#28
In reply to #21

Re: Polar 150 Guillotine Won't Cut

02/26/2019 9:15 AM

Thanks for the information. I have tried this but will try again to double check. When the machine worked, if the blade was stopped mid-cut it would reset itself when powered back on so this may not be the issue.

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#30
In reply to #21

Re: Polar 150 Guillotine Won't Cut

02/26/2019 1:04 PM

So these old machines don't meet today's safety standards by at least a decade. No wonder the manufacturer has abandoned these liabilities. The OP should buy some new equipment before their insurance company hears the old unit cannot be safely fixed.

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#34
In reply to #30

Re: Polar 150 Guillotine Won't Cut

02/27/2019 10:10 AM

Even though the machine is old it has a new safety light guard fitted so no problem with safety. The fault has nothing to do with safety. It a hydrauilic problem!

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#36
In reply to #34

Re: Polar 150 Guillotine Won't Cut

02/27/2019 11:04 AM

So if you owned a machine designed prior to the Triangle Shirtwaist fire do you believe you could legally lock the doors with chains? I know that is an extreme example but you seem to be ignoring my point.

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#37
In reply to #36

Re: Polar 150 Guillotine Won't Cut

02/27/2019 11:26 AM

What on earth are you on about!!

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#39
In reply to #37

Re: Polar 150 Guillotine Won't Cut

02/27/2019 1:45 PM

You can bring a horse to water...

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#40
In reply to #39

Re: Polar 150 Guillotine Won't Cut

02/27/2019 3:01 PM

But you can't change it's spots.

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#38
In reply to #34

Re: Polar 150 Guillotine Won't Cut

02/27/2019 11:49 AM

The light curtain was my next possibility to look into, but you have replaced it.

I can think of only a few other possibilities. Because you said you replaced the hydraulic pump, and the clamps are functioning, that leaves only the solenoid valve that actuates the clutch/brake in the hydraulic system. This valve is 48VDC operated. Is it getting a signal when the start buttons are activated?

Another possibility is a bad limit switch. They are operated by a set of cams, if I remember, located behind the clutch housing.

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#41
In reply to #38

Re: Polar 150 Guillotine Won't Cut

02/28/2019 12:57 PM

Thanks for your informative reply. Ill have a look as soon as I get some time. So does the hydraulic vane pump operate the blade as well? It has 2 outputs but as the clamp has 2 clamp pressures I wasn't sure if it also operated the blade.

It does the harder clamp pressure when pressing the cut buttons.

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#42
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Re: Polar 150 Guillotine Won't Cut

02/28/2019 4:33 PM

The hydraulic system does not operate the blade directly, rather it operates the clutch/brake that drives the blade from the flywheel

The fact that you have clamping pressure eliminates the hydraulics as well as the cut buttons. This continues to point to the solenoid valve that activates the clutch or to the electrical circuit that activates this valve.

Unfortunately, I no longer have the documents for the electrical system and the hydraulic system to refer to, so I am working from my memories from ten years ago.

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#26

Re: Polar 150 Guillotine Won't Cut

02/26/2019 4:10 AM

Hi, I had this problem with our guillotine, the pump was going backwards. Unbeknown to me, electricians had been in and fitted a new fuse board and reconnected the machine with a couple of phases round the wrong way. :-(

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