The Future Is NOW!!!

I'm game. Charles BSEE '92

Before you divulge your secret to a public forum, look into how you might protect your intellectual property rights. One thing you can do is require recipients to sign a Non-Disclosure/Non-Competition Agreement. Furthermore, ideas/inventions placed in the public domain are much harder to defend as being your property when it comes time to secure a patent on your invention.

If your invention has considerable merit (you being a 'kid' or not is irrelevant), it stands to make a lot of money. Wouldn't it really suck to see that cash go into someone else's pocket!!!

As soon as you post your idea here without any IP protection, you lose control of ownership. Totally. There are no guarantees that someone won't steal your idea. Absolutely none. Think about this before you spill the beans.

Well the first questions I would ask would be,

a) What are its supposed advantages over current motors? (Important)

b) Does it violate any physical or electrical laws? (Important)

c) Does it involve magnets, especially magnets arranged in a pattern to assist or create rotational force? (this is actually a VERY important question)

d) Does it exist in some form or other already (have you checked the internet)? (you would be surprised how many times this happens, even to people who should no better, like me)

e) Could it ever be viable (cost, size, etc)? (that question can be answered later)

f) What country are you in?

Now most of these questions require you to give a little more information on your idea.

As for IP, it really does not provide much protection (especially if you cannot afford legal fees to fight an IP infringement), also getting a patent is a very BAD idea before you have even had your idea verified (trust someone who has gone thru the patent process and has an actual patent). This is how the world actually works.

I am here to help but I need more information before I can give you an assessment. If you could answer a), b) and c) for me then that would be great.

Jack

Power Engineer

BEng (hons), NZCE, ESTCA.

Hi Jack,

Are you suggesting to him that having no IP protection whatsoever is a viable alternative? No NDAs, nothing? Having one's idea verified by qualified pros is one thing - and highly recommended - but to suggest that one shouldn't even bother with disclosure issues is quite another. It's a little like saying, "He probably can't defend against a burglar, so he should just leave his house unlocked."

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...also getting a patent is a very BAD idea before you have even had your idea verified (trust someone who has gone thru the patent process and has an actual patent). This is how the world actually works.

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I've completed this process seven times already, and I'm now on my eighth trip through this bloody friggin' patent maze so, yeah, I know a little bit about how the world works. He should draft an NDA at the very minimum, IMHO.

Are you suggesting to him that having no IP protection whatsoever is a viable alternative

Yes and no. Like all things it will really depend on the situation. I do agree with the NDA thou (but it is more of a feel good protection when push comes to shove, then again for small things....). I would like to hear if anyone here who has some experience actually managing to successfully defend against an infringement (by that I mean gained more overall (I don't just mean money) than they lost in, say, legal fees and time), and that wasn't a baseless waste of time like the last one against us that left us ROTFL.

As you can probably gather, I am of two halves when it comes to this sort of thing, a small development will likely be either ignored or assimilated into so many other products as to blanket the market and industries, and a large (world changing) development will probably be stolen.

Final words - NDA fine first start.

Final, final words - Like me and most others, do you expect to not make enough money to cover the costs of patenting the idea (from a cost vs not bothering at all point of view, assuming of course nothing goes wrong)?

I have always wondered about intellectual property rights.

It seems unreasonable that if I can prove conceptualization of lets say, a novel method of space propulsion in 1992 and could prove this through documentation; would I be prevented from benefiting from it in 2012 because it was patented by someone else in 2007?

It doesn't make any sense to me other than to benefit those with the money and power to use the patent system to protect their stolen booty.

Since I could never imagine having the discretionary funds to pay patent attorneys, who would probably be the first to rip you off of anything of value anyway, I would simply establish proof of conceptualization and then put it out to as many people through as many paths as possible and then sit back and imagine the grovel.

Gavilan

1) Ideas cannot be patented; you must have a workable method or device in order to get a patent. If your documentation proves that you had a workable method or device in 1992, you can challenge the 2007 patent on the basis of "prior art." However, if your documentation shows only that you had an idea, you have no recourse -- unless you can show that the method or device in the 2007 patent is not workable!

2) Even if somebody else owns the patent, you may still be able to profit by the invention. Try to negotiate a deal with the patent owner. If you intend to use the invention to make a profit, they may be willing to sell you a license to use it, or perhaps agree to a royalty fee that you pay from your income.

Wow,from one idea to a thousand,must be wonderful to be smart.=) Let me explain: As stated my knowledge on the subject is very little,I'm still trying to get all the info and that takes time.I don't have the necessary resources to help me in my quest that being my reason for posting on this site in the first phase.I just want someone who could tell me wether or not my idea would actually work or not and if it has already been procduced or not,since trying to gather that info would take to much of my time. As for the NDA,I don't think it would be necessary,I'm residing in South-Africa and don't want to go though all the trouble of actually drafting such a agreement and then attempting to have someone sign it. If anyone finds my idea worth steeling then by all meens,at least then I have given someone an idea to help others although they might just be thinking of themselves. My idea does involve magnets and electromagnets(in my mind I can see it working,but I also see starwars so I may be seeing things=)) and wether it would work or be in contrast with any laws I'm not sure,for that would mean I would have to know these laws!Its mearly an idea to entertain me for now,so if any of you would be willing to help me then please send me a private mail with your private email,I'm not sure if one is allowed to do so in the blog.

I had a feeling it would involve magnets. I think it is fairly safe to post here as just about every magnet motor/generator design and variation has been tried and has been done to death over the years (most in the pursuit of free energy generators).

The main problem is while it might actually work initially, it will only work for a short period of time. The biggest problem is the fact that any magnets will lose their magnetism (demagnetise) when used in this way. There is no way around this (laws of magnetism and such), and it has tripped up everyone who has tried to implement a new magnet based motor or generator (especially when they don't realise that this occurs).

If you still have doubts about posting a basic version of your idea here, then check the internet or the patent sites. You are more than likely to find an exact copy of your design somewhere.

Don't give up, many of our initial designs don't work the way we thought either, and we know what we are doing (sort of ), but in the end half the fun is learning WHY they don't work.

If its the go-cart with the generator attached to the axle that feeds the drive motor - forget it, it doesn't work kid.

Ask and we will tell you why.

Oh and by the way -"and if you do it with good faith." ???? The boys with the bling don't do it for the love and honor my man. They do it for the bling and glory. That's how they got the bling. With the degrees came the rationalization that "I deserve it more than the kid does and I'm pedigreed."

Stealing is the biggest part of the intellectual property game. Just choose your booty and lawyers carefully. I think rule number one in the intellectual properly game is -never pick a lawyer less dishonorable than you - his conscience will affect his ability to lie, steal, and cheat.

There is only one way around all of this - do it for the love of it and let somebody else take the credit. Someone once said - " It is amazing what one man can accomplish if he is willing to give other men the credit." ---- And learn to capitalize on the fact that there is nothing more motivated than a pig one foot from the trough. You'll never get rich, but you'll make a difference.

Gavilan

Having spent (wasted) thousands of pounds on IP rights
I think most of the members replies are correct. That is:

For NDA's etc. they are simply "feel good" and, patents,
like most laws are (mostly) good for the rich. That's not
to say the odd "just cause" cannot be upheld, only that
very considerable funds are required to enforce patent rights.

With all that out the window where are we?

Initially I would advise:

1) You make Extensive internet and patent office research. (good online)
Do not accept the conclusion of patent attorneys, or any others, that
no similar item can be found. (I have found conflicts with my own
patents - after paying for such advice!)

2. Make several written copies detailing your patent, seal them in several
different envelopes and have them date stamped by your bank, post office,
solicitors, etc. These will cost you very little money and they can be used
to prove to a prosecution court that you did (in fact) create your invention
at that particular time. (i.e. prior to any other later claims)

3. Press ahead and make prototypes as quickly and as cheaply as you can.
There is nothing better to have an actual working model in your hands - for
you to find out the faults, and, to find a "better way" of creating your invention.

This has the added benefit that you are (should be) racing to market.
Believe me, there is very little new under the sun. If your idea is new, then it
is almost certainly true that someone else is also working on a similar idea; and,
the first one to market will have a very strong edge.

4. Market your creation as soon as you possibly can. When the chips
are down it is invariably the one making (or has) the money who wins.
If you have a stream of money coming from your invention you will have
the means to employ the best attorneys to contest any claim(s).
Without the money, you will very likely lose out. (various reasons)
Only the stamped documents you prepared earlier (see 2) may save you.

5. Having reached this point, do NOT be encouraged (by others, eg sales)
to mass produce "thousands" for distributors. Only produce a limited number
which, if the idea is good, will sell out completely. Then, make some more.

I have seen several businesses fail (including one of my own) because of
over stocking. If, for ANY reason, your creations are slow, or not selling,
you will get into financial difficulties (at best) and possibly go bankrupt.

The above is the best advise I can give to anyone full of enthusiasm
for what they believe will be "sliced bread" or the invention of the century.

Please, stick to the guidelines and, you may just win out. I hope you do.

jt. jt(at)swopzone.com if you wish to confer more.

Have a Free notice board for your invention on http://www.mfnb.at
Good Luck!

It doesn't make any difference what your age or educational background may or may not be. If you have an original idea and have researched the patent databases or utilized the techincal search engines (to exhaustion) and can find no other device such as you conceive then, by all means, pursue a patent.

Any professional electrical engineer you hire will sign a document known as a "Certificate of Non disclosure". What this means is; the engineer will guard your idea and not disclose it to anyone unless authorized by you in writing. This is integral to most legal and binding contracts for professional services.