Previous in Forum: How to Clean Rust from Bathroom Ceramic Tiles?   Next in Forum: America at its Best?
Close
Close
Close
17 comments
Rate Comments: Nested
Guru

Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Madison, WI.
Posts: 2074
Good Answers: 77

What is it With Tesla?

04/03/2019 11:22 AM

I haven’t posted in a while and this is a little bit different. I wanted to highlight one of the main contributions Tesla is making in the world.

http://www.teslarati.com/tesla-patent-more-efficient-electric-motors/

RESEARCH.

Up until Tesla, research on things like electric motor efficiency and battery design were getting very little research funding from anyone. We got complacent and content with “good enough”. Well it looks as though much more work needs to be done because the potential for advancement is limited only by funding and now that Tesla has forced the issue, The Chinese, Europeans, even India are all committing to electric vehicles and spending prodigiously on R&D. Of course it is a bit embarrassing to have to admit that the company that started this is not getting support from its home country.

However, China is very happy to have Tesla build there and of course that means they get first shot at all of Teslas tech, which is far advanced of anyone elses. So there goes any leadership we would have had in the field.

So yes, Tesla is not paying dividends. Thank God. They are investing in R&D and building out capacity in a method know as “blitzscaling.” The more I read about the things Tesla is doing the more I understand why people do not get it. This whole thing is being run in a very different way from anything we would consider “normal” automotive business. That is called change. It is not something the US USED to fear. We USED to be the embracer of the new, the different, home of the GO BIG OR GO HOME attitude. Well folks that is exactly what Tesla is doing. What is really quite sad is how many Americans have forgotten what made us great to begin with.

__________________
Knowing is the end result of learning, not believing.
Register to Reply
Pathfinder Tags: electric motor tesla
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: by the beach in Florida
Posts: 33392
Good Answers: 1817
#1

Re: What is it with Tesla?

04/03/2019 11:30 AM

What made America great was lack of regulation, low taxes, and few lawyers...

__________________
All living things seek to control their own destiny....this is the purpose of life
Register to Reply
Guru
Engineering Fields - Electrical Engineering - Been there, done that. Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Long Island NY
Posts: 15600
Good Answers: 981
#3
In reply to #1

Re: What is it with Tesla?

04/03/2019 1:20 PM

What made America great was short...

(Sorry about that, an underpaid immigrant had to take my garbage.)

The history of Amerika shows peaceful respect for...

(Wait, that's not what I was going to say.)

Shay's rebellion proved that taxation and government were not needed...

(Wait, that rebellion showed a loose confederation of independent states would ultimately fail by itself. Brexit anyone?)

Amerikan Jingoism has kept all of us strong, almost pungent.

(No, wait that's not it either. I vaguely remember something about attention span.)

Squirrel!

__________________
"Don't disturb my circles." translation of Archimedes last words
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 42355
Good Answers: 1693
#4
In reply to #1

Re: What is it with Tesla?

04/03/2019 2:36 PM

That's absolutely absurd! Not surprising, coming from you though!

"President Dwight David Eisenhower, perhaps the last real Republican, had a 90 percent tax rate for the super rich during his administration.

Eisenhower explained it this way: The super rich could avoid the high taxes by investing their money in things that make America stronger. If they wanted to avoid high taxes, he said they could invest in business expansions and higher employee wages. They could give a million or two to tax-exempt non-profits that feed, house and clothe poor people of America, among other things"

The current regime is heading us down the road to becoming either a Russian annex or a third world joke of a country!

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: by the beach in Florida
Posts: 33392
Good Answers: 1817
#6
In reply to #4

Re: What is it with Tesla?

04/03/2019 3:54 PM

Socialist rhetoric....Those high rates were imposed by Roosevelt during WWII to help pay for the war effort...Raising rates in this economic environment and peacetime, would be nothing more than a power grab and a decisive move toward socialism...and eventual government collapse...

The taxes in those days were used more to control inflation, which now is done more or less by the Federal Reserve...Deficit spending exploded during WWII and the only way to hold inflation in check was to raise the income tax rate....now we raise the interest rate as well as other monetary control methods...

..."America's experience in World War II finally institutionalized deficit spending as national economic policy. Driven by military needs, the federal deficit skyrocketed from $6.2 billion in fiscal year 1941 to $57.4 billion in fiscal year 1943."...

https://www.thebalance.com/us-gdp-by-year-3305543

https://www.encyclopedia.com/economics/encyclopedias-almanacs-transcripts-and-maps/deficit-spending

__________________
All living things seek to control their own destiny....this is the purpose of life
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 42355
Good Answers: 1693
#7
In reply to #6

Re: What is it with Tesla?

04/03/2019 4:38 PM

BS!

The $1.5 trillion tax cut for business resulted in a $1 trillion corporate stock buy back and NO new business growth.

The trade wars are ruining our economy and just today the twitter in chief said he'd further collapse the economy by CLOSING the Mexican border!

Just how incredibly ignorant and stupid can the be?

The Federal Reserve is now nothing more than a puppet of the ruler who is insane! He controls it and it does his bidding.

Good luck with that!

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: by the beach in Florida
Posts: 33392
Good Answers: 1817
#10
In reply to #7

Re: What is it with Tesla?

04/03/2019 5:14 PM

It gave a .7% boost to GDP...

2016$18.707$17.6591.6%

Presidential race.

2017$19.485$18.0512.2%

Trump Tax Act.

2018$20.494$18.5662.9%

Deficit spending.

__________________
All living things seek to control their own destiny....this is the purpose of life
Register to Reply
Guru
Engineering Fields - Electrical Engineering - Been there, done that. Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Long Island NY
Posts: 15600
Good Answers: 981
#12
In reply to #10

Re: What is it with Tesla?

04/03/2019 7:48 PM

SolarEagle, you have nobody else to blame but yourself. You started this political vomitoria by immediately answering an engineering observation with an unsubstantiated political response. I did enjoy the brief recognition by others to being given an undeserved GA because I made a humorous but substantiated response to your political bias. Nonetheless CR4 is an engineering blog and my reply was not engineering related, it did not deserve a GA.

You willfully violated CR4's rule of conduct #5, again. I'm tired of this and I am tired of what seems like favoritism by CR4 administration in enforcing any of the rules. I get bumped down a net zero GA and your political comments incur no OT marks.

At one time CR4 provided a fun, informative platform for technical discussions. People of all stated political biases were marked to OT or deleted all together. I miss those days.

__________________
"Don't disturb my circles." translation of Archimedes last words
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: by the beach in Florida
Posts: 33392
Good Answers: 1817
#13
In reply to #12

Re: What is it with Tesla?

04/03/2019 9:38 PM

What are you talking about? My response #1 was my opinion....my second response was to lyn, who attacked me for no reason, that was a rules violation...and started his political lefty agenda again....I have a right to defend myself....

__________________
All living things seek to control their own destiny....this is the purpose of life
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Indeterminate Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: In the bothy, 7 chains down the line from Dodman's Lane level crossing, in the nation formerly known as Great Britain. Kettle's on.
Posts: 32175
Good Answers: 839
#2

Re: What is it with Tesla?

04/03/2019 11:42 AM

Undefined: <...we...>?

__________________
"Did you get my e-mail?" - "The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place" - George Bernard Shaw, 1856
Register to Reply
Guru
Engineering Fields - Electrical Engineering - Been there, done that. Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Long Island NY
Posts: 15600
Good Answers: 981
#5

Re: What is it With Tesla?

04/03/2019 3:05 PM

And now for something completely different...

... a brief discussion on the Tesla article.

From my experience in using many different forms of electric motors, the dominant drop in efficiency at higher rotation speeds happens due to the back EMF the motor itself produces will reduce the amount of torque produced while the purely resistive I^2*R parasitic losses stay nominally constant. I don't dispute that Tesla may have discovered a more efficient geometry to reduce even these losses but to not mention this well-known phenomenon makes me wonder if this article is only hype.

__________________
"Don't disturb my circles." translation of Archimedes last words
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Madison, WI.
Posts: 2074
Good Answers: 77
#8
In reply to #5

Re: What is it With Tesla?

04/03/2019 4:49 PM

Well, it's patented applied for hype if nothing else. LoL

But again, my point being, research investment will now move the market regardless of the oil companies spending. All major car producing countries except Americas have accepted that as fact.

__________________
Knowing is the end result of learning, not believing.
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: About 4000 miles from the center of the earth (+/-100 mi)
Posts: 9910
Good Answers: 1141
#9
In reply to #5

Re: What is it With Tesla?

04/03/2019 4:50 PM

Finally, back to engineering!

Induction motors are already fairly efficient (85-97 percent). I wouldn't have thought there would be much room for improvement there, but I suppose every bit helps.

"Full load motor efficiency varies from about 85% to 97%, related motor losses being broken down roughly as follows:[48]

  • Friction and windage, 5–15%
  • Iron or core losses, 15–25%
  • Stator losses, 25–40%
  • Rotor losses, 15–25%
  • Stray load losses, 10–20%."

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Induction_motor

Register to Reply
Guru
Engineering Fields - Electrical Engineering - Been there, done that. Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Long Island NY
Posts: 15600
Good Answers: 981
#11
In reply to #9

Re: What is it With Tesla?

04/03/2019 7:19 PM

Agreed, it is good to get back to engineering.

__________________
"Don't disturb my circles." translation of Archimedes last words
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru

Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Madison, WI.
Posts: 2074
Good Answers: 77
#15
In reply to #11

Re: What is it With Tesla?

04/04/2019 10:38 AM

Engineering is off topic. LoL

So we recover some measure of efficiency just by reshaping pieces, is there any gain from different materials, processes, etc. I believe we have probably invented new materials and processes since the day we foolishly declared the electric motor perfect.

It was 'good enough' for the uses and within the cost effective expense frame, but was it really the best we could do?

No. For some reason we all forgot our Dr.Suess.

Thanks to Tesla's success, these are the questions now being asked again. Is Tesla the only innovator, no. Many more have entered the field now since Tesla partnered with Panasonic to use a tried and proven technology that was suppliable. Both Tesla and Panasonic then used the opportunity to start working on improving the 18650 cell. Less cobalt was tried against "common knowledge" and guess what? The 2170 cell. Smaller, lighter, more energy dense and much faster to charge and discharge and cheaper.

Oh, but battery technology was mature, no need to do research.

This was and still is the mission of Tesla. To force the argument. Push the issue and get people out of their comfort zone. Something they did while building one hell of a vehicle.

So, how else could we improve on the core technologies of electric power today?

__________________
Knowing is the end result of learning, not believing.
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 3)
Guru
Engineering Fields - Electrical Engineering - Been there, done that. Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Long Island NY
Posts: 15600
Good Answers: 981
#16
In reply to #15

Re: What is it With Tesla?

04/04/2019 11:06 AM

It is certainly plausible the reshaping of pieces might reduce energy being placed where it will be wasted. Magnetic and electrostatic fields exist in space so the shape of the parts steering these fields will have an effect. I don't expect much of an improvement with efficiencies already being so high but that's why they have a patent application. It's not obvious.

__________________
"Don't disturb my circles." translation of Archimedes last words
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 3)
Guru
Engineering Fields - Electrical Engineering - Hmmm...

Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Maryland
Posts: 567
Good Answers: 29
#17
In reply to #16

Re: What is it With Tesla?

04/05/2019 7:53 AM

I've worked with NEMA 23 sized stepper motors since the mid 80's. They have improved in their efficiency over those 30+ years. I've attributed it to R&D efforts at the manufacturers as well as improvements in the manufacturing processes, possibly tighter machining tolerances, better metal alloys or even improved winding techniques.

Assuming the folks who enhanced the performance of those little stepper motors are also responsible for improvements in induction motors, there's plenty of reason to believe there have been improvements over the last few years. How many and how much Tesla is responsible for can be debated, but I'll say that Elon seems to be able to put together a darn good team.

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Chicago
Posts: 3990
Good Answers: 144
#14
In reply to #9

Re: What is it With Tesla?

04/03/2019 9:44 PM

in a nutshell..

__________________
High Tolerance is Beautiful
Register to Reply
Register to Reply 17 comments
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

JE in Chicago (1); Lo_Volt (1); lyn (2); PWSlack (1); rashavarek (2); redfred (5); Rixter (1); SolarEagle (4)

Previous in Forum: How to Clean Rust from Bathroom Ceramic Tiles?   Next in Forum: America at its Best?

Advertisement