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Thermodynamic Magic Enables Cooling Without Energy Consumption

04/20/2019 12:25 PM

It's always assumed that heat will flow from a hot body to a cold body and never the reverse direction without the application of external energy (i.e. a heat pump). Here is an interesting experiment in which heat does flow in the opposite direction without any external energy.

Charge a capacitor and connect a resistor. The current decays in the familiar exponential curve as current flows out of the capacitor through the resistor. Heat up a block of metal, bring it into contact with a cold piece, and monitor the temperature difference. The temperature difference decays in the exponential curve as heat flows from the hot source to the cold sink.

Add an inductor to the RC circuit and you have a RLC tank circuit. If you start with a charged capacitor, the current oscillates in a decaying sinusoid waveform. If there were "heat inductor", heat could flow in a decaying exponential with alternating swings moving heat from the "cold" sink to the "hot" source.

A "heat inductor" was constructed using a Peltier device. A Peltier device is a series of P and N type semiconductors connected between two heat conducting but electrically insulating plates. The arrangement is such that the P and N are arranged to be parallel for heat flow but connected in series electrically. Heat is carried from one plate to the other by the electrons and holes which flow in the N and P material.

When voltage is applied, heat moves with the electrical current. When a temperature differential is applied, electrical current moves with the heat. In either case, flow of heat and flow of electrical current are connected. Placing an inductor in the electrical circuit is equivalent to creating a "heat inductor" in the thermal circuit.

The Peltier device shorted by an inductor is placed between heated copper and cold copper and the heat capacity of the hot copper (capacitance) conducted through the Peltier/inductor (resistance and inductance) creates a thermal tank circuit.

"Fig. 2Equivalent electrical network and illustration of the heat flow within the considered thermal connection between a body with heat capacity C at temperature Tb and another body or a thermal reservoir at Tr.

(A) The electrical network consists of a Peltier element (Π) with internal resistance R and thermal conductance k in a closed circuit with an ideal inductance L. The oscillatory current I is ultimately driven by the voltages supplied by the thermoelectric effect due to the temperature difference between the cold and the hot end of the Peltier element, and the induced voltage LI.across L (see Eq. 1A). (B) Sketch of the individual contributions to the flow of heat (open arrowheads, arrow lengths not to scale) in Eqs. 1B and 1C for situations when heat is flowing from (filled light/yellow arrows) or to (filled dark/purple arrows) the warmer end of the Peltier element, drawn for one oscillation cycle of Tb(t), as depicted in Fig. 1 (B and D). The thermal oscillator acts during a full period of an oscillation cycle of Tb(t) alternately as a thermoelectric generator (i), a cooler (ii), a generator (iii), and a thermoelectric heater (iv). During all these processes, a small amount of electromagnetic power (LII., green double arrows) is exchanged with the inductor, although the total stored magnetic energy is always less than a fraction Δ0/Tr of the initially deposited excess heat ~ CΔ0 (see text and Fig. 5). "

"Fig. 3Evolution of the temperature difference between a cooling body and a thermal bath or another finite body, which are connected in an experiment using a thermal inductor.

(A) Normalized temperature difference (Tb(t) − Tr)/Δ0 between a finite body and a thermal reservoir for L = L* = RC/k and ZT between 0.25 (red) and 5 (blue) in steps of 0.25, obtained from solving Eq. 3. The time is in units of τ* = C/k. The black line represents a corresponding relaxation process with a time constant τ*, which would take place if the Peltier circuit were interrupted from the beginning. If the thermal connection is not removed after reaching the respective Tb,min (dashed line), Tb(t) approaches thermal equilibrium with eventually Tb = Tr in all cases. The inset shows the damped oscillations of both Tb(t) and I(t). (B) Temperatures Tb(t) and Tr(t) of two connected finite bodies with equal heat capacities, relative to the mean initial temperature T¯¯¯=[Tb(0)+Tr(0)]/2 and normalized to the initial temperature difference Δ0, for ZT = 5 (time in units of τ*). Tav denotes their average value showing local minima around Tb ≈ Tr (the numbers for Tav were calculated for Δ0/Tr = 0.27). The inset shows the evolution of the total entropy gain as a function of time in corresponding normalized units."

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/04/190419165531.htm

https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/5/4/eaat9953

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#1

Re: Thermodynamic magic enables cooling without energy consumption

04/20/2019 2:32 PM

Aren't you just swapping out electricity for heat as your energy source? ...basically a solid state absorption cooler....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absorption_refrigerator

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#7
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Re: Thermodynamic magic enables cooling without energy consumption

04/20/2019 7:28 PM

You are correct, it is using the energy from the hot source. The cooling overshoots due to the "inertia" provided by the "heat inductor". It's just a curiosity in that heat is flowing in the "wrong direction". It probably has no practical use, it's just interesting. A lot of science articles written for the general public tend to overhype things like this.

There's nothing new about using heat to generate cold. Any heat engine can produce work which can, in turn, drive a heat pump. You could use two Peltier devices, one as a thermoelectric generator and the other as a heat pump, but the efficiency wouldn't be too great.

I had one of those absorption refrigerators when I was living in the Caribbean. It ran silently on a little propane flame. It took about a day to get going, but then it worked great.

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#25
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Re: Thermodynamic magic enables cooling without energy consumption

04/21/2019 6:01 PM
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#26
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Re: Thermodynamic magic enables cooling without energy consumption

04/21/2019 7:07 PM

I had one of these little thermoelectric coolers, would keep a cold beverage cold, but wouldn't cool anything down from room temp, and you could only have it plugged in when the engine was running, forget and leave it plugged in and your battery would be dead in no time...which happened to me a few times before I gave up and started just using it for storage....useless

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#27
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Re: Thermodynamic magic enables cooling without energy consumption

04/22/2019 1:20 AM

My point exactly.

For the correct application, it's OK.

Newton's laws still apply.

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#2

Re: Thermodynamic magic enables cooling without energy consumption

04/20/2019 3:46 PM

Wow! That is nothing short of amazing.

How expensive is a Peltier device, and can you envision this being scaleable, for example, to cool buildings in a hot place?

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#3
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Re: Thermodynamic magic enables cooling without energy consumption

04/20/2019 3:59 PM

Not very efficient, not very cheap....Here's a peltier refrigeration unit for $29 to play with...

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#4
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Re: Thermodynamic magic enables cooling without energy consumption

04/20/2019 4:32 PM
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#8
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Re: Thermodynamic magic enables cooling without energy consumption

04/20/2019 8:00 PM

Too bad.... well, wake me up when they find a way to produce heat from cold. (don't naysay, there was "magic" in the OP title...)

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#10
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Re: Thermodynamic magic enables cooling without energy consumption

04/20/2019 9:53 PM

Heat from cold, no problem..

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#18
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Re: Thermodynamic magic enables cooling without energy consumption

04/21/2019 11:52 AM

The problem is that Peltier devices are inefficient for two reasons. One reason is that it's hard to find a good electrical conductor that doesn't also conduct heat, so heat can also seep through without generating electricity. The second is that the electrical resistance generates extra heat. So the Peltier device is lossy in both directions.

Due to the inefficiency of the Peltier device, to get this to work, they had to use a superconducting coil for the inductor.

The article is misleading in that it emphasizes "making cold out of heat". (This can be done a number of ways, like using a heat engine to convert heat into work, and then using the work to drive a heat pump.) In hindsight, I see I should have picked a new title for this thread.

What should have been emphasized is that the thermodynamic axiom, "without external energy input, heat always flows from a hot object to a cold object" is not always true. With the "heat inductor", the heat transfer can be a decaying oscillation rather than a decaying exponential.

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#19
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Re: Thermodynamic magic enables cooling without energy consumption

04/21/2019 12:26 PM

It is interesting, reminds me of regenerative braking....

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#21
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Re: Thermodynamic magic enables cooling without energy consumption

04/21/2019 2:45 PM
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#24
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Re: Thermodynamic magic enables cooling without energy consumption

04/21/2019 5:10 PM

It's not impossible that the ideal material might be discovered or tailored to the application.

https://spectrum.ieee.org/tech-talk/semiconductors/materials/compounds-made-from-metal-organic-frameworks-could-challenge-conventional-semiconductors

Even if stand-alone systems are limited, we can always go the hybrid route....

I like the idea of a solar-TEG hybrid system for the north, and many other applications to improve efficiency are commented in the wiki, which would probably come on stream really quickly if/when a promising material becomes available. Especially if it's a MOF, then it can all be 3D printed!

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#31
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Re: Thermodynamic magic enables cooling without energy consumption

04/22/2019 11:49 AM

There are a number of methods to increase the figure of merit zT being pursued.

https://arpa-e.energy.gov/sites/default/files/Guest%20Speaker%20-%20Zebarjadi%20-%20For%20Posting.pdf

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#32
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Re: Thermodynamic magic enables cooling without energy consumption

04/22/2019 12:11 PM

Yeah, I like that 'figure of merit' approach. Values surely must change with our priorities.

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#33
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Re: Thermodynamic magic enables cooling without energy consumption

04/22/2019 12:57 PM

Or is it that our priorities change with our values? Classic chicken/egg problem. Depends on who's working for who. It takes two to tango. I wonder when values and priorities will be in sync. That'll be the day. That said, I must take this opportunity to plug a poem I wrote:

Lost In Advice
Ground, ground, so much to plow.
Good from bad, discern it how?
Test & study, and retest again.
Waste my time. till I start to spin.
Life, life, such a high price.
I gotta go and get some advice.
Seeds, seeds, so many to sow.
Which will die, and which will grow?
The more I've thought, the more I've sinned.
Should I just cast them into the wind?
Water,water, but it's solid ice.
I gotta go and get more advice.
Things, things, so many to do.
Should I work until I turn blue?
The more I do, I find open locks.
Did someone open my Pandora's Box?
With advice I will gird.
But alas, it's only a word.
Words, words, so many to choose.
The more I need, the more I peruse.
The more I peruse, the more I need.
Should I use words until I bleed?
Damn, damn, this ain't nice.
Here I am, lost in advice.
Brains, brains, so easy to use.
They're so easy, I get confused.
Don't wanna reach my point of dispair,
And just throw my arms up in the air.
Think I'll go back the way I came,
And try again 'till I'm insane.
Needs, needs, so many to feed.
From this work, how can I be freed?
Don't want fatigue to cause me to sin.
But maybe later, I can try again.
Please, please, just take me home.
I am tired, and now I groan.
I know you love me, and you're the best.
So grant my prayer for a little rest.
Time, time, don't wanna think twice.
I'm already lost in advice.

Why does this page always remove my indentations? it doesn't look like a poem anymore.

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#34
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Re: Thermodynamic magic enables cooling without energy consumption

04/22/2019 3:03 PM

Nice work on the poem, Dennis.

I recently had to disable tracking protection on this site, for the text editing bar to reappear. But your poem looks like a poem to me. You definitely captured the internet 'advice' thing. I just want to read it all, before I make up my mind....

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#35
In reply to #33

Re: Thermodynamic magic enables cooling without energy consumption

04/22/2019 3:11 PM

It would be nice if the special characters (Ω) menu had a forced-space choice.

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#39
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Re: Thermodynamic magic enables cooling without energy consumption

04/23/2019 2:00 AM

Usually when you edit, you can make indentations with dots...

....or you can capture the poem with prt scn save the file as a jpg in paint and do it that way...although with a pic file the size can be tricky, usually it prints it too small...

I use the edit with dots, works for me...they should have a preserve format button...

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#5

Re: Thermodynamic magic enables cooling without energy consumption

04/20/2019 5:39 PM

Magic, schmagic. My hot cup of coffee cools without external energy or peltier devices.

I vaguely remember another rule that energy moves but it does not get consumed.

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#6
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Re: Thermodynamic magic enables cooling without energy consumption

04/20/2019 7:21 PM

What about after the radiation of an old black hole Peter's out?

-a quick regurgitation of something I heard.

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#9
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Re: Thermodynamic magic enables cooling without energy consumption

04/20/2019 8:22 PM

Peter's ---> peters

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#12
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Re: Thermodynamic magic enables cooling without energy consumption

04/20/2019 10:18 PM

But "Old Eagle Eye" still has the record for outs.

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#13
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Re: Thermodynamic magic enables cooling without energy consumption

04/21/2019 1:24 AM

He did all that by age 19? Or are there typos on the plaque?

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#15
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Re: Thermodynamic magic enables cooling without energy consumption

04/21/2019 9:39 AM

At Cooperstown, the dates on a plaque refer to the years of professional play. He played for 19 years.

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#11
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Re: Thermodynamic magic enables cooling without energy consumption

04/20/2019 10:09 PM

Yeah, ignore the magic hype.

Normally heat will flow from a hot body to a cooler body until they are the same temperature in the familiar exponential decay curve. Adding the "heat inductor" changes the cooling curve so that it overshoots, causing heat to flow in the "wrong direction" temporarily, following a decaying oscillation curve.

It's not mysterious at all if you look at the electrical analog, comparing an RC circuit with an RLC (tank) circuit. In a tank circuit, energy is being stored in the inductor, the same thing that is happening here.

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#14
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Re: Thermodynamic magic enables cooling without energy consumption

04/21/2019 1:30 AM

I understand how electrical energy gets stored & released in inductors and capacitors. But I don't quite get that mechanism with heat. It's one thing to call it a "heat inductor", but it's quite another to actually be one. I just don't quite see it.Your original post was quite much to take in. I need to sleep on it awhile (actually I didn't even finish reading it yet). It's late in the day, and I'm tired. But, it is interesting. I just don't have the energy to analyze it. Come to think of it, I also feel my temperature dropping. Which reminds me of another phenomenon. A cold drink of whiskey does warm up a not-so-cold body. I think I'd better leave it at that. It's bed time.

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#16
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Re: Thermodynamic magic enables cooling without energy consumption

04/21/2019 11:23 AM

The secret is inside the Peltier device.

When there is a difference in temperature across the Peltier device, a voltage is generated (Seebeck effect). If the electrical circuit is completed, this voltage causes a current flow which transports heat. The amount of heat (in watts) is directly proportional to the amount of current.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermoelectric_generator

The heat flow is directly coupled to electrical current, so the inductor in storing electrical energy, stores the heat energy, causing the oscillation, just as in an electrical RLC tank circuit.

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#17
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Re: Thermodynamic magic enables cooling without energy consumption

04/21/2019 11:39 AM

Ohh... I do see it now. Theoretically, you might be right. However, in practical/everyday life, the efficiencies/losses are more than what can be salvaged. Whether it works or not is yet to be seen. But, you might actually be onto something.

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#23
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Re: Thermodynamic magic enables cooling without energy consumption

04/21/2019 3:51 PM

An RLC circuit is familiar to electrical engineers, but maybe not to everybody. Here is a better model for most folks:

Assume you have a pendulum, which you pull to the side and release. It swings back and forth with smaller swings until it stops. It swings past zero because it has momentum (inertia) and stops due to friction.

If the pendulum is immersed in honey and released, it will slowly return to zero without oscillating. It has much more friction (resistance) than inertia.

The normal response of heat between a hot object and a cold object has no inertia, just a force (temperature difference) to return to zero, and behaves like the pendulum in honey.

If the "heat inductor" is added, this provides inertia, and the heat transfer behaves more like the pendulum in air, with oscillation with decaying amplitude.

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#38
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Re: Thermodynamic magic enables cooling without energy consumption

04/22/2019 10:39 PM

... "If the electrical circuit is completed, this voltage causes a current flow which (Generates Heat) transports heat. The amount of heat (in watts) is directly proportional to the amount of current." ...

Considering that "Cold" is the absense of "Heat" , I highly doubt something could come from nothing.

...Unless this is a Seinfeld episode.

J

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#40
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Re: Thermodynamic magic enables cooling without energy consumption

04/23/2019 7:53 AM

Yeah, I get that. But theoretically, if there was no resistance, all that current could be used for work (cooling the cold to colder). Now, the real question is, how much is lost to resistance, and how much actually does work?

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#41
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Re: Thermodynamic magic enables cooling without energy consumption

04/23/2019 9:39 AM

A Peltier device has internal resistance, R. When you put current through the device, heat is pumped from the cold side to the hot side, the number of watts of heat pumped proportional to the current in amperes. In addition, heat is created, proportional to the square of the current (I2R). The heat that appears on the hot side is the sum of the pumped heat and the generated heat.

Because heat pumped is proportional to average current but waste heat is proportional to current squared, for greatest efficiency Peltier devices should be driven with steady, not chopped DC current.

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#20

Re: Thermodynamic Magic Enables Cooling Without Energy Consumption

04/21/2019 1:01 PM

I designed one of these once...don't think anyone was ever able to build it though...

....there was a crack between the surfaces to allow electron tunneling, yes a very narrow crack....the problem was allowing for expansion on the heated side that would maintain the crack width....

Something like this, with the hot side on top, the expansion would alter the tunneling from the top to the bottom of the diamond shaped expanding protrusion, with some surface always at the right gap width...

A ventilated chip....

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#22
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Re: Thermodynamic Magic Enables Cooling Without Energy Consumption

04/21/2019 2:53 PM

..."Schematic diagram indicating the advantage of quantum tunneling over thermal hopping across a potential barrier. For kinetic energy (E) greater than the potential (V ), as in regions (A) and (C), the plane wave functions (ψ(X) = Ae ikX or A ′ e ik ′ X ) are indicated with wave vectors k = √ E − V ≈ k ′ in the two regions respectively (assuming V ≈ V ′ for them). For region (B), the wave vector becomes imaginary (as ∆V > E) and the damped amplitude A ′ in (C) region will be given by Ae −w √ ∆V −E ."...

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#28

Re: Thermodynamic Magic Enables Cooling Without Energy Consumption

04/22/2019 8:42 AM

Dry block calibrators used for calibration checks of temperature sensors - RTD, thermocouples, thermistors - use Peltier elements for accelerated cooling and setpoints near or below ambient.

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#29

Re: Thermodynamic Magic Enables Cooling Without Energy Consumption

04/22/2019 9:40 AM

Numbers numbers who's got the numbers. It has been said that it is possible to figure anything out by using math. The point they don't mention is often we don't even know all the numbers, values, variables or we have yet to find a way to model the phenomenon. This led to the development of the phrase, "It looked good on paper."

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#30

Re: Thermodynamic Magic Enables Cooling Without Energy Consumption

04/22/2019 11:36 AM

These devices have been around since the 80s.

What's the big deal now?

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#36

Re: Thermodynamic Magic Enables Cooling Without Energy Consumption

04/22/2019 3:24 PM

I doubt that this actually violates the Second Law. Unless the cold-to-hot part of the cycle can be isolated and repeated, one must take into account the whole cycle, in which the total net heat flow is from hot to cold.

Unfortunately, over-unity dingalings are likely to latch onto this to support their next round of nonsense.

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#37
In reply to #36

Re: Thermodynamic Magic Enables Cooling Without Energy Consumption

04/22/2019 9:32 PM

You are correct, it's no different than a released pendulum which moves "uphill" after passing the bottom point. The system, as a whole, increases in entropy. What is driving the heat back "uphill" is the energy stored in the "heat inductor", just as the inertia of a pendulum allows it to swing back up the other side.

"Laws of physics remain intact

Until now, Schilling's team had only operated these thermal oscillating circuits using an energy source. The researchers have now shown for the first time that this kind of thermal oscillating circuit can also be operated "passively," i.e. with no external power supply. Thermal oscillations still occurred and, after a while, heat flowed directly from the colder copper to a warmer heat bath with a temperature of 22°C, without being temporarily transformed into another form of energy. Despite this, the authors were also able to show that the process does not actually contradict any laws of physics. To prove it, they considered the change in entropy of the whole system and showed that it increased with time -- fully in accordance with the second law of thermodynamics."

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/04/190419165531.htm

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