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Additive for Diesel Antifreeze

05/19/2019 5:31 AM

Antifreeze for Diesel engines has additives to reduce or eliminate erosion due to cavitation,caused by the high frequency vibrations in the engine,especially near the heads. I have an ultrasonic cleaner,and it requires a non foaming detergent,like Sparkleen because normal detergents will suppress the cavitation. So the question is,will adding a small amount of dish detergent have the same effect in the Diesel engine,reducing cavitation damage?I realize that antifreeze has many other additives,but I am curious about this particular one additive. Thanks in advance for all constructive comments.

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#1

Re: Additive for diesel antifreeze

05/19/2019 11:02 AM

That's an interesting idea. Soap lowers the surface tension of water. The higher the surface tension, the harder it is for bubbles to form, and when they collapse, they collapse with more force. You can think of surface tension like a spring force, and the spring gets stronger as the bubble gets smaller.

https://techblog.ctgclean.com/2018/06/liquid-properties-effect-cavitation/

http://web.mit.edu/nnf/education/wettability/bubbles.html

With a lower surface tension, you would have more and larger bubbles forming, and it might interfere with the cooling efficiency, especially if there is any air in the coolant resulting in foam.

Just a guess...

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#5
In reply to #1

Re: Additive for diesel antifreeze

05/20/2019 10:46 AM

I saw no bubbles or foam forming in my ultrasonic bath,only decreased ultrasonic action.I would think that under pressure,like a cooling system,they would be even less likely to form,and if they did form,there would be less energy stored,due to reduced surface tension, when it collapsed,causing less damage.A "softer" ping so to speak. I do not know how detergent would affect the vapor pressure of the solution,but I would presume it would lower it.Just guessing here.

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#2

Re: Additive for Diesel Antifreeze

05/20/2019 2:23 AM

I thought that diesel antifreeze used detergents and other things to emulsify water and thus prevent freezing and blocking of filters etc. It also lowers the flow point of the diesel. I don't understand the connection to "erosion due to cavitation", but then again I live in Western Australia, so not much experience with cold things.

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#3
In reply to #2

Re: Additive for Diesel Antifreeze

05/20/2019 3:54 AM

Diesel engines use Nitrate or and Borate salts which rebuild the damage after the fact.What I was was proposing was to prevent the cavitation from occurring before the fact.I know the amount of detergent is critical to prevent foaming but there should be an ideal amount to be determined by laboratory analysis. If normal detergents can kill cavitation on my ultrasonic cleaner,it should also work for diesel engines.Basically,detergents reduce the surface tension of the water as well as the repulsion of the dirt particles I can see and hear the difference with just a minuscule drop of dish detergent in my cleaner.Cleaning action immediately stopped. It should have the same effect on Diesel engines,I think. Click and paste the link below:            

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------±§       ▬ ß    https://www.forddoctorsdts.com/articles.html/dtsarticles/cavitation-erosion-r27/------------------------------------------------------

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#7
In reply to #3

Re: Additive for Diesel Antifreeze

05/22/2019 2:23 AM

Sorry, got the wrong end of the stick. I thought you were talking about antifreeze for the diesel fuel. I now assume that you are referring to the cooling water system.

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#4

Re: Additive for Diesel Antifreeze

05/20/2019 7:00 AM

When I was in this industry all our fleet used brand name ( FLEET GARD ) it was designed to stop the cavitation problem that ate holes in cylinder linings if no precautions were taken. I also remember some test strips to check the PH of the coolant. There was also a FLEET GARD water filter that dispensed an additive to the coolant to keep the strength and PH at proper levels. That was back in the 70's.

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#6

Re: Additive for Diesel Antifreeze

05/20/2019 11:52 AM

Why not simply use distilled water as all the heavy metals and corrosive salts are removed. The cause of engine corrosion internally is the rubbish in the water: Chlorine. Fluorine compounds.Trihalomethanes (THMs) Salts of: arsenic. radium. aluminium. copper. lead. mercury. cadmium. barium. Hormones. Nitrates. Pesticides.

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#8
In reply to #6

Re: Additive for Diesel Antifreeze

05/22/2019 4:43 AM

Distilled water is used by some race cars in Gasoline engines.It is hard to beat the thermal conductivity of water. However,Diesel engines have such high compression that they generate ultrasonic vibrations that create cavitation,(which are tiny explosions)that cause damage to the cylinder walls. Cavitation damage is often seen in propellers,impellers in pumps,etc. In cold climates you also need freeze protection,so antifreeze in required. However,distilled water itself is a very powerful solvent,that under the right conditions of temp and pressure will dissolve almost anything.Water is a universal solvent. I have seen 160F water dissolve ceramic,Teflon and other "super" materials. Deep inside the Earth's core,water dissolves rocks and metals.So water is not harmless,especially in it's pure state.It is very"Hungry" for other materials,and will dissolve almost anything. Google cavitation damage if you desire to educate yourself about cavitation,and also educate yourself on the properties of water as a solvent.

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#9
In reply to #8

Re: Additive for Diesel Antifreeze

05/24/2019 1:21 PM

Yes. I worked in a power station where we had several sample lines continuously flowing. Some of them, over a period of time like a few weeks, would dissolve holes in Pyrex glassware. This was just high purity water from the demineralizer. No ph elevating additives. Of course water from the drums (ph around 9) also dissolved glassware.

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