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O-ring Permeation Model for Enclosure with Elastomeric Seals

05/26/2019 12:21 AM

Love your show, first time caller... Oops sorry wrong introduction.

I am currently trying to understand o-ring permeation behavior and have been a bit stumped since most of the information that I can find is for a constant pressure differential. However, the enclosure that I have designed (and thus the electronics that need protecting) have a varying pressure differential based on temperature. The enclosure is small (13 cc). It cannot be vented and potting adds cost/complexity.

I am trying to figure out if desiccant is feasible but need to understand the permeation behavior through the elastomeric seals over its expected life of 5 years. It is part of an outdoor product that will change temperature based on time of day (thus Gay-Lussac's Law). The o-rings being considered are Viton, EPDM and Parker Butyl B-318. The Butyl has the lowest permeation rate of the three.

The first questionable area is what change in temperature to use. I am currently using soil temperature data from NRCS/USDA. I am using 1 sigma deviation from the mean for the max and min temperature giving me my dT (or dT = 2 X STDEV). Is there a better way to describe the permeation dT over time?

The second questionable area is the time of permeation. Permeation occurs only when the pressure inside is below the atmospheric pressure. And, I am assuming that there is no outward permeation (or that all the water vapor has condensed inside). But, this rate changes with temperature. I have bluntly assumed that instead of a 5 year life, that 50% of the time vapor is permeating into the volume. Does this seem reasonable?

The typical permeation formula given by the o-ring folks is for constant pressure differential. Does anyone have experience with the situation that I am describing above? Is there a model that has been developed for this system?

Thank you in advance and please let me know if further information is needed on my part (or a slap on the hand for missing something obvious or misstating something).

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#1

Re: O-ring permeation model for an enclosure with elastomeric seals

05/26/2019 2:17 AM

Maybe you could charge the cylinder with nitrogen, thus mitigating the pressure differential...? You should be safe at 15psi....

https://icemeister.net/backroom/calculators-2/nitrogen-pressure-vs-temperature-calculator

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#4
In reply to #1

Re: O-ring permeation model for an enclosure with elastomeric seals

05/27/2019 10:00 AM

That is what we do with some of our products. We fill with nitrogen boiled off from a liquid nitrogen dewar to ensure that it is dry but cylinder nitrogen should be OK. This is equipment designed to purge & fill units with dry nitrogen, no doubt there are other makes around.

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#6
In reply to #1

Re: O-ring permeation model for an enclosure with elastomeric seals

05/27/2019 12:55 PM

Continuing N2 thoughts from comment above... Thanks for this thought line SE

If N2 is used (as suggested) and pressurized inside (not sure how to control the pressure in any controllable way especially with such a small volume), then it too will permeate through the o-ring over time. Granted permeation thru Viton is wonderful (one reason why semiconductor vacuum equipment guys use it), but I will need to take a look to see how long it will take to leak down. My guess is that an elastomer seal in a glass-filled polypropylene housing will leak down faster than the life expectancy of the product (5 years). Maybe it's not driven by the leak rate through the raw materials since N2 is such a large molecule, but more through the sealing interfaces, which will be harder to control. Maybe this will simply buy more time... say cutting the time down so that desiccants can last longer.

This is not a hermetically sealed product. I think it could be pressurized, just not sure how without assembling in a pressure vessel with automation or adding a "valve" feature that could be used for charging. This product is about the size of a computer mouse.

I am inquiring with three desiccant companies since they should have the right expertise in this area. Electronic packaging info from these guys is not readily available as opposed to desiccants and packaging containers.

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#7
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Re: O-ring permeation model for an enclosure with elastomeric seals

05/27/2019 3:33 PM

The seal could be designed in such a way that the pressure increases the force on the seal adding to the integrity...the N2 could be injected via needle through a rubber nib and sealed on removal of charging needle...A charging cylinder with the measured volume of N2 could be used for precise volume control...

..."Nitrile and natural rubber gasket materials are good choices for gaseous nitrogen, although EPDM is generally considered best. EPDM gasket material has good heat resistance and a working temperature range of around -60 to 320°F (-50 to 160C). Resistance to oxidation, UV, ozone, and abrasion are all good and it also withstands water, acids, and alkalies along with ketones and alcohols."...

https://www.henniggasket.com/gasket-answers/nitrile-gaskets-2/best-gasket-material-nitrogen/

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#11
In reply to #7

Re: O-ring permeation model for an enclosure with elastomeric seals

05/28/2019 11:06 PM

SE, interesting information. Thank you. I will investigate further. I have received first contact from a desiccant company and will post the what I learn as it comes in. I considered gaskets vs. o-rings, but the packaging prevent the use of a gasket for the sensor seal. I could have possibly used a gasket (longer permeation path) for the other seal, but the benefit didn't outweigh the design challenges due to the increase in housing size.

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#2

Re: O-ring Permeation Model for Enclosure with Elastomeric Seals

05/26/2019 11:24 PM

You could seal the enclosure in a cool, dry atmosphere below the lowest temperature the device is likely to see in the field. That way the unit will be under positive pressure at all times so no worries about moisture ingress.

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#5
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Re: O-ring Permeation Model for Enclosure with Elastomeric Seals

05/27/2019 12:44 PM

Thanks for the info GM1964. I thought about what you suggested. I have chosen operating min T at -5C, a bit below freezing which could be seen at ground level in an agriculture setting (e.g. San Joaquin Valley). What gave me pause was not this temperature since you could back fill with N2 (as other have suggested). It was the typical non-operating or storage temperature most products get tested for -20C to -40C for things like solar panels, cars, etc. I think my fingers would fall off at one assembly... Will continue my thoughts on N2 in the other message...

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#3

Re: O-ring Permeation Model for Enclosure with Elastomeric Seals

05/27/2019 6:35 AM

I agree with SE,pressurization is the way to go to prevent ingress of outside atmosphere.Plenty of materials are resistant to nitrogen. The link below(cut and paste) has a formula for calculating permeability with varying differential pressures:=====================================================================================================https://www.marcorubber.com/o-ring-permeation.htm=================================================================

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#8

Re: O-ring Permeation Model for Enclosure with Elastomeric Seals

05/28/2019 10:55 AM

It remains a mystery as to why a proprietary IP68 enclosure and fittings weren't selected in the first place, thereby obviating the <...enclosure...designed...> part?

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#9
In reply to #8

Re: O-ring Permeation Model for Enclosure with Elastomeric Seals

05/28/2019 10:59 PM

Cost, size and similarity to interface hardware... are the issues with OTS enclosures and fittings for this application. The custom polypropylene (PP) enclosure houses a sensor. The typical enclosure for this type of sensor can be found in industrial settings where neither cost nor size are of much concern. The industrial solution is stainless steel everything or at a minimum brass - granted easier to seal since metal seals could be used. But if elastomers where used, the same issue would exist. The PP enclosure costs $2 in qty of 1000. Good luck getting even to the same magnitude with stainless.

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#10
In reply to #8

Re: O-ring Permeation Model for Enclosure with Elastomeric Seals

05/28/2019 11:02 PM

Also, I would love to use a Gore vent or similar vent from Donaldson, unfortunately, the product lies in the mud at times and can even be submerged... Thus, a vent was a no go from the beginning. Potting has always been the backup. But, I would like to avoid the cost and complexity.

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