Black Holes Create New Universes ?

I think Stephen Hawkins has the definitive info on this one. It is a yes and no question,Yes it has the power if it is big enough,But no it does'nt have the power if you measure it as such.Black holes don't create matter they just condence it. And if you could get a black hole to explode(not implode as they are apt)then you could harness the power to create anything you wish.??? not the case you think??? Prove me wrong... Sorry not a definitive answer. But on these levels there are no definitive answers.best of luck!!M-J

I recognize that at this point in time, we are no where near close to knowing the answer to this or utilizing the phenomenon, if in fact we ever can or will. I put it forward as an idea to stimulate thought and discussion in this area. I appreciate that fact that as far as we know, Black holes don't create matter, but accumulate it. Matter IS condensed Energy, however the magnitude of the forces involved is such that they drastically alter what occurs outside of Black Holes. When Black holes 'evaporate' as is now posited for at least some of them, where does all this massive accumulation of energy go to? How do we know that on the 'other side' of the Black Holes and their event horizons, that they are in fact not ejecting this massive quantities of energy into new universes or ???? Perhaps I'll eMail this to Stephen Hawking if I can get an eMail address for him. Thanks for your response.

I think before you try to invent ways of utilizing a resource, you need to understand at least the rudiments of the nature of it. Frankly, I don't believe we know enough about the nature of black holes to begin looking for ways to apply their properties to our lives, and that if you have an interest, perhaps you could focus your efforts towards furthering our understanding of them.F.W.I.W.(for what it's worth)

I think we have all been watching too much Star Treck/Star Wars, et al. We don't know that a black hole has an "other side"; everything may simply become part of the material that generates the black hole to begin with. While the best minds we have may consider the issue, we have no way of measuring, generating, or controlling such forces, and we have absolutly no way of getting anywhere near a black hole any time soon to investigate the phenomenon. Maybe the Aliens that are watching us could give us some clues!!!??? :)

This is a fun concept to play "what if" with, but we have no practical method (yet???) to check the hypothesis we generate.

Remember, before we set off the first atomic bomb, some of our best scientists speculated that a nuclear fireball might set the earths atmosphere on fire and destroy all. Lucky for us, that did not happen.

I believe the scientists had proven that a sustained nuclear reaction could not remotely occur before they set off the first atomic bomb, although that was a concern. Here's a question. By classic physics, if you accelerate a mass to to the speed of light, its kinetic energy would be 1/2 MV^2. According to Einstein, if a given mass is converted to energy the amount would be MV^2 or twice the above. Is there a relationship between the two?

How likely could this be? Basically, black holes are simply intergalactic vacuum cleaners. So, is it possible that when the bag is full out bursts a new universe of interstellar dust and pollen? What happens to the black hole then?

If this were true, that would mean that the universe we experience now is the product of a spring cleaning on a super massive scale somewhere else. In essence, the bag was full with all of the mass that makes up our universe today before it was casually dumped like an ashtray in a parking lot into what became our backyard.

So far, only a tiny fraction of the universe's mass is locked up inside Hoover black holes. Some black holes are now the product of multiple black holes, but there is no evidence that all matter is coalescing into a single entity (A.K.A. the Big Crunch) to form a massive black hole of the magnitude that would have created this universe. On the contrary, we are seeing a universe that is expanding and expanding at an accelerating rate. What's that about?

It seems unlikely that our universe is capable of generating new universes and certainly not of any magnitude mass-wise. All of that assumes that matter and energy can not be spontaneously created out of nothing. However, ignorance (if not stupidity) is boundless and if some physicist discovers an equation that relates those properties to energy or matter we may have out answer!

How do scientists distinguish and know that this is not still just acceleration from the Big Bang?

This is tangential to this thread, but maybe of interest to the participants. Scientists at the Relativistic Heavy Ion Collider (RHIC) at Brookhaven National Laboratory have created a reaction in the collider that shares many of the characteristics of a quantum black hole. The "RHIC Fireball" is not the matter-swallowing type of black hole we often read about, but it does appear to be absorbing quantum particles and re-emitting them as thermal radiation.

The Brookhaven scientists have released a statement to reassure the public that the effect they are seeing in the RHIC, while it has some similarities to a true gravitational black hole, isn't one and poses no "earth-swallowing" danger.

Great info !
Thanks Steve (< 8

There are far too many details to be discovered, theorized and proved to make any knowledgeable comment on your proposal. The strong force has yet to be proven and just as the flatlanders couldn't see above the x,y plane it's likely that our lack of vision outside the x,y,z set of coordinates is severley hampering our view of the known universe. But since we can't see that, and will never have the ability to see that way, it will be a long time before we develop useful, meaningful, predictable results in fourth order observations and calcultaiions. Bob

I support thoughts of Water Buffalo, The subject The Universe and its creation as per my vieews is totally imaginative,and based only on assumptions,with a very littele knowledge about it. We have a very fine excuse for the subject or the matter which we means mankind could or would not under stands , " INFINITE " Thanks.

I am surprised with all the comments that not one person has mentioned Kurt Gödel (1906-1978). This is one who you need to read up on. He proposed exactly what you speak of. You may recall he came up with a formula known as E=Mc2, not as others mis-credit to Einstein. He was the Austrian logician who delivered the formula to his friend Albert who kept rambling about the problems of mass and light on their long walks home in private. Unfortunately, ole' Albert laughed when Godel when he told him what it meant; which was basically that a black-hole will consume all mass after the tornado of stars has expanded to it's maximum reach, it would then collapse back into the vortex and fall through the black-hole and explode out the other side as a white quasar of a new universe; or big bang. This of course, according to Godel would repeat over and over again; like a pendulum. As far as trying to prove this, why not try to prove the existence of God; it would be just as easy. And for all the mathematicians that need a proof and have doubt, remember the lamppost analogy, to a good scientist a lamppost illuminates his ideas, to a bad scientist a lamppost becomes a crutch to lean on like a drunkard, leaving the actual engineering to someone else and we all know where that can lead. Sir william Thomson also known as Lord Kelvin once said; "do not show me your abstract math, show me a working model; for I will never understand the abstracts but a working model I can grip". Much Mahalo, Asturias

Hi Studio Asturias,
Thanks for the HeadsUp on Kurt Gödel.
I look forward to learning more of his work.

Very good comments on this topic. The problem here is that even if one could prove that a black hole creates a new universe, that universe would have only the total mass of that particular black hole. It has been said that every galexy has a black hole at the center. In our universe as we know it, there are countless galexies each containing a tiny amount of mass in comparison with the whole. So each new universe spawned from a black hole will have much less mass than ours. This effect will snowball as new universes spawn from black holes in that new universe. Every subsequent universe wil have a tiny fraction of the mass of that universe from which it was born. Using that logic, our universe must have then spawned from a previous black hole in another universe before it. That universe would have been much larger than this one. Same goes for the one before that and the one before that. This whole idea still presents the question of when and how did it all start. Even with difinitive proof of this theory, we have not answered the ultimate question.

Thanks for all the informative (and imaginative) responses. I recognize that we are not currently in a position to know such things. I put it forward as a proposition and to further discussion on the matter. This was really more of a scientific posting than an engineering one. The relevance of 'Infinity' in this matter is not lost on me. It may ultimately by unsolvable by materialistic science, as the origin of the 'Big Bang' may prove to be. It's wouldn't be hard to conceive of a 'Big Crunch' being followed by (another) Big Bang. But current information points to an ever expanding universe as opposed to one that would eventually result in everything being compressed back down into a singularity (again). The observation of 'diminishing energy' is certainly relevant in my initial query. But who knows what happens in the extreme forces of such things as a Black Hole or even a neutron star? Do the classical laws of physics that hold true elsewhere apply in such situations? Quantum Physics and even a Grand Unification Theory (GUTs) may not be descriptive, adequate or accurate in such an environment. When Black Holes 'evaporate', as scientists now think some do, what happens to all the energy and mass (which is 'frozen' energy) when it does? Where does it 'disappear' to? Given the magnitude of the forces involved, it does not seem impossible that the time space continuum could be dramatically altered into who knows what? Scientists and engineers are now working on the technology to create very short lived microscopic Black Holes here on Earth. They feel that this will give us insight and perhaps even some answers as to the reality of other unseen dimensions. In reference to 'Watching too much Star Trek, Star Wars etc': Keep your feet planted firmly on the ground and you'll be OK! As to 'proving it': good luck to all of us! I'm not a Cosmologist or a AstroPhysicists that is hoping to solve this. However, any specific ideas or alternative proposals on this are certainly welcomed. Enjoy.

Hi Doug,

As stated in my thread State of the Big Bang Theory - part 2, The Penrose theorem implies that a false vacuum cannot be caused to expand fast enough to produce a universe, and that an inflationary universe must begin with a singularity, which a black hole isn't. So it looks like Alan Guth's answer is no, and who am I to argue?

My understanding of Hawking radiation is that it is into our universe, making the black hole smaller after billions of years (assuming that it doesn't attract anything into it). Eventually at a small size it explodes, again into our universe. I could be wrong, but this is my understanding.

regards,

S