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Can Air Ionized by an Electric Field Transmit Electricity from Another Source at the Same Time?

07/14/2019 8:48 AM

Consider a situation that I need to transfer electricity without any transmission losses, so for that, I am creating an ionized plasma channel by making corona using high voltage (consider that, I am using some waster energy to make high voltage ) and want to pass electricity through the ionized medium. Will this set up work?

To get an idea about my question, here is a circuit in which two plates are at high potential, just enough to produce corona and an external circuit with a light bulb and a Dc voltage source in it.
The question is will the light bulb glow ???

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#1

Re: Can Air Ionized by an Electric Field Transmit Electricity from Another Source at the Same Time ?

07/14/2019 10:25 AM

http://www.industrytap.com/florescent-bulbs-unplugged-and-shinning-tapping-electromagnetic-fields/1763

..."Plasma is a form of matter in which many of the electrons wander around freely among the nuclei of the atoms. ... If the heat or electric field becomes extreme, many of the atoms become ions. The resulting super-ionized gas is a plasma, which can conduct a large and sustained electric current."...

https://whatis.techtarget.com/definition/plasma

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#2

Re: Can Air Ionized by an Electric Field Transmit Electricity from Another Source at the Same Time ?

07/14/2019 10:35 AM

A cable is more efficient...
Del

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#3

Re: Can Air Ionized by an Electric Field Transmit Electricity from Another Source at the Same Time ?

07/14/2019 10:59 AM

Playing with lightning is dangerous!! Either people and/or equipment will often be sacrificed when one discharges kilovolts of electricity. One must be very careful with a design to choose sacrificial material in sheltered places, instead of people, when working at these voltages.

The switch you are contemplating is called an trigatron. It is one of the types of thyratron devices that allow for the control of massive amounts of current used in pulsed power.

(From the Wikipedia link)

{Notice the wire mesh surrounding the vessel. It is there to contain an explosion when metal fatigue happens.}

The spatial geometry of your multiple electrodes will be very critical factors in determining how much energy gets applied from your high to low voltage circuitries and vice versa.

This is not a lossless method of power transfer. Generating and certainly maintaining a plasma requires power consumption. Usually the switched power is orders of magnitude greater than the losses to make the plama. When these devices are used in pulsed power applications, one has the added advantage of brief time intervals of operation.

In addition, background ionizing radiation can and will at random times prematurely trigger a plasma path.

Lastly, in theory your idea has some validity but the safety concerns to you, others nearby and the rest of your circuitry should prevent you from trying this.

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#4

Re: Can Air Ionized by an Electric Field Transmit Electricity from Another Source at the Same Time ?

07/14/2019 11:03 AM

If you really need true lossless power transmission then a superconductor is your only option. Cryogenics has its own collection of dangers but the electric power is not lost.

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#5
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Re: Can Air Ionized by an Electric Field Transmit Electricity from Another Source at the Same Time ?

07/14/2019 11:29 AM

All i need to know is whether this current flows in the circuit and light up the bulb .

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Re: Can Air Ionized by an Electric Field Transmit Electricity from Another Source at the Same Time ?

07/14/2019 11:42 AM

I'm sorry, did I give you too much information to process?

You might get the filament(?) light bulb to light from the power of your unknown battery voltage or the 20 kV supply, you might not. I think it is far more likely the battery, light bulb or anyone nearby will be badly damaged from the 20 kV supply.

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Re: Can Air Ionized by an Electric Field Transmit Electricity from Another Source at the Same Time ?

07/14/2019 1:01 PM
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#8

Re: Can Air Ionized by an Electric Field Transmit Electricity from Another Source at the Same Time ?

07/14/2019 11:30 PM

The quick answer is that this won't work.

The electrical conductivity of a plasma is a function of available charge carriers, i.e., the degree of ionization in the plasma. Although an electrical corona at STP does pass a small current, it's typically of the order of microamperes to milliamperes with applied potentials of thousands of volts and surface E-fields above 27 kV/cm. The effective "resistance" of a weakly-ionized cold corona plasma between the plates of the order of 10e9 ohms/sq-cm - far from being lossless. Thermal plasmas (high-current arcs) are MUCH better electrical conductors. But even a heavily-ionized thermal plasma is not nearly as efficient an electrical conductor as common metals.

Use a wire...

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#9

Re: Can Air Ionized by an Electric Field Transmit Electricity from Another Source at the Same Time ?

07/15/2019 2:03 AM

With this circuit I would expect that with the corona occurring it would be highly likely for the HV plates to arc over to the DC conductors and take the path of least resistance through the battery and light causing a disconcerting state change of one or both.

Have you thought about the ozone generated by the corona and its health repercussions. I used to test insulators for breakover/breakdown with HV up to 160KV and the amount of ozone produced around the insulator skirts by the corona was extremely voluminous and we are now told toxic, shame we were expendable.

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#10

Re: Can Air Ionized by an Electric Field Transmit Electricity from Another Source at the Same Time?

07/16/2019 6:42 AM

<...Will this set up work?...> This looks like a good design for an industrial bonfire, if that is what is wanted. One might expect the battery-powered part of the circuit, and anyone nearby it, not to survive the experience.

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