Roman Dodecahedrons - What's It Do?

Looks like pieces to a game....I'll leave the game to your imagination...

Weaving framework? I doubt it. Look at the result.

Has The Roman Dodecahedron Mystery Been Solved? - The ...

Could they simply be objects de art?

Some trinket to denote one's rank in some secret cult?

Perhaps a gambling device?

What jumps out at me is that the sides are all the same and fitted with balls which looks like the object could be designed to be thrown or rolled.

The uniform marking of the sides does seem to indicate an object of art rather than a game.

There is probably a link to some culturally significant artefact from a culture that the romans absorbed that would atleast explain its origins.

These are certainly difficult enough to fabricate that obviously a great deal of methodical effort went into making them. These objects had significant value for their users. Since they are not covered with writing nor is any writing about their use been discovered, their use was intended to be mysterious. I also notice that their opposing openings appear to be the same size.

I wonder if one supports a Scytale in one of these when wrapping a cryptic message.

12 sides , pentagrams....Maybe for fortune telling...

Parade Separation Guide

I think these were "road building theodolite" rangefinder devices and/or devices used to keep military processions accurately spaced out on Roman roads. Sight the standard(flag) of the unit marching ahead of you through this pair of holes and maintain a specific distance to that unit so you do not bunch up and look foolish.

Now the question is: how did they mount them for continuous ease of use. The answer probably involves those knobs on the vertices but how one keeps the two sighting holes clear and aligned is a question I have not yet completely answered. I wonder if they document somewhere their processional arrangements for long frontier marches. Maybe the units marching had obvious fixed sizes for various types of units. If there are six unique unit sizes then my speculation gains credibility. Also consider the difficulty of having your marching army look good when its units include archers, pikers, swordsmen, cavalry, chariots,...

Users Guide: Choose the hole pair matching the size of the unit ahead(plus buffer space) and march elegantly. If their flag gets bigger than the hole, slow down or stop. If their flag then gets smaller than the hole, resume marching. Keep the edge of the opposite hole uniform within the circle of the nearer hole while viewing the flag ahead to maintain the correct standoff of your eye from the flag sighting hole.

It is well known that the Romans used devices to maintain uniformity of their manpower. Watch Ben Hur and pay attention to the drummer beating rowing cadence for the slave oarsmen.

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thewildotter

Stealthy Parade Guide

Wow ! Thanks to the OT issuer. I now have modern proof that the Romans did not want their tricks for having an awesome looking military display exposed. The gambling and astrology uses for these dodecahedra would have all been appropriately marked. That someone does not believe the device is a parade organizer's secret even today, when it is laid out explicitly for them, is gratifying. It proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that the Romans could get away with a techno-trick for looking very regimental with no one perceiving the underlying scientific magic. Onlookers probably thought it was mere ornamentation on their regalia when, in truth, it was to avoid statements from conquered populations like, "Look at those ridiculous Roman soldiers, they can't even parade without bumping into each other." Thanks again for the Off Topic rating since it clearly demonstrates the clever stealth of the device.

Sure fooled you, didn't it !

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thewildotter

I had one of these as a baby.

They were used as ball bearings in government designed equipment.

I suspect these were a carryover from Greek sources. In Greek society of the period just before Roman domination, geometric solids held religious, philosophical and political meaning. It would not be unreasonable for these beliefs to be carried over into Roman society since the Greek intelligentsia were absorbed and distributed in the Roman bureaucratic and administrative system.

If you cut out the penta shaped months, they could be held in place via the balls....and changed every year....

The Roman standards had some very elaborate constructs at the top of the flag pole according to pictures. This could have been a hub to go at the top of the flag pole with holes for rods for horizontal banners and small flags. The studs could have been attachments for lanyards and streamers.

Wikipedia includes Spain and Southeast Asia as places these artifacts have been found...

Thanks for pointing that out.

Interestingly, the Mental Floss article cites a historian who noted that these haven't been found in Spain and other central Rome areas.

The historical emphasis has been on Gallo-Roman regions, whether that be rightly or wrongly.

That said, tough to discredit the ones found in Asia. It is also interesting that these examples are 'smaller' and made of gold.

Do these count as true ancient dodecahedron? Tough to decide without knowing exactly what they were for.

Maybe the number of balls or vertices is important. You could use is device as an accumulator to allow you to manually count by 20s, fingers and toes. You would have a prescribed sequence to advance around the device, perhaps using the hole that fits your thumb. No help for the ones with no holes or tiny holes, tho.

An engineering drawing of one, confirming hole diameters might be helpful. Some look like all the holes are different diameter.

The offset provided by the balls also could be important. The length of a rod between the two opposite faces could be scribed using the space the balls provide, but opposite holes should be identical diameter...

They were the result of a disagreement between Ptolomy and Theon of Smyrna over how many sides a dice should have the end result of which they both agreed to disagree. They thought that it would would give the scholars of the future cause to postulate and develor theorms to decide that they didn't have a clue as to their use or origins but they did agree that they would insense future generations and they made a curious incense burner.

Maybe this is how they were used?

https://www.gralienreport.com/ancient-mysteries-2/man-solved-roman-dodecahedron-mystery/

I guess an appropriate question would be whether any glove remnants have ever been found that were made using this method. Some Roman fabric items have been found, but I have never heard of any five post knitted items. If the glove doesn't exist, then the theory doesn't fit.

I'll continue to wait for an explanation that fit's this old and perplexing mystery.. I'm clapping slowly anyhow..

That didn't get any traction the first time either.

#2

It was devised to puzzle us in the 21st century. They knew what they were doing, It still puzzles us.

A type of trophy or a device to reflect status or rank in a society. The more elaborate design, the higher degree of stature.

You did say they were found among valuable items.

What immediately springs to mind is Mr. Cleese...

https://youtu.be/Y7tvauOJMHo
clearly these were a very advance Roman emergency repair kits for the promotion coral growth in reefs effected by cyclones and global warming

The dodecahedron is one of 5 Platonic solids. As such it was an interesting object and may have many uses. Some uses may have been Art, Religion, Fortune telling, Gambling, Crop management, and Standard measurement. Other potential uses are listed in the link.

True, while it maintains the pattern of having a ball at each vertice, this does not have a hole centered on each face. This begs the question if this anomalous polyhedron is just one example of other configurations, a counterfeit, or the most prized example of these ancient items?

Having twelve sides and small studs (symbols?), plus varying size holes which have varied ringed patterns, suggests to me that they may have something to do with the phases of the moon?