Previous in Forum: Gasket Compression Calculation for a Known Load   Next in Forum: Roman Dodecahedrons - What's It Do?
Close
Close
Close
12 comments
Rating: Comments: Nested
Anonymous Poster #1

Direct Steam Injection into Cooling Water Line at Pump Suction

09/09/2019 11:48 PM

Currently there is an operation scenario at one of our plant which directly injecting steam into cooling water line at pump suction in order to generate hot water at 60 deg C for circulation, by doing this its generate vapor at pump suction and lead to cavitation which ultimately damage pump and mechanical seals. Please advise better solution to this rather than installing a heat exchanger.

Reply
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive votes to make them "good answers".

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
6
Anonymous Poster #2
#1

Re: Direct steam injection into cooling water line at pump suction

09/10/2019 12:10 AM

Inject it far downstream of the pump outlet. Pay the money for a heat exchanger.

Fire whoever devised this nightmare.

Reply Good Answer (Score 6)
Guru
Technical Fields - Technical Writing - New Member Engineering Fields - Piping Design Engineering - New Member

Join Date: May 2009
Location: Richland, WA, USA
Posts: 21017
Good Answers: 795
#2

Re: Direct steam injection into cooling water line at pump suction

09/10/2019 12:15 AM

Inject the steam into the pump discharge, perhaps. The present scheme is totally f insane.

__________________
In vino veritas; in cervisia carmen; in aqua E. coli.
Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
3
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: by the beach in Florida
Posts: 33392
Good Answers: 1817
#3

Re: Direct steam injection into cooling water line at pump suction

09/10/2019 12:58 AM

By definition you need to exchange the heat from the steam to the water, so whatever scheme is used, I would call it a heat exchanger....

https://www.komax.com/inline-direct-injection-steam-heater/

__________________
All living things seek to control their own destiny....this is the purpose of life
Reply Good Answer (Score 3)
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: 44.56024"N 15.307971E
Posts: 8277
Good Answers: 270
#5
In reply to #3

Re: Direct steam injection into cooling water line at pump suction

09/10/2019 8:43 AM

GA,as usual.

__________________
"A man never stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child." "Never argue with a stupid person.They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience" "To create an apple pie from scratch, first you must create a universe"
Reply
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Indeterminate Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: In the bothy, 7 chains down the line from Dodman's Lane level crossing, in the nation formerly known as Great Britain. Kettle's on.
Posts: 32175
Good Answers: 839
#4

Re: Direct steam injection into cooling water line at pump suction

09/10/2019 4:37 AM

Bear in mind that <...cooling water...> has additives in it to inhibit scaling and biofouling, and operates up to a maximum total dissolved solids before blowdown and replenishment takes place. Raising the temperature by injecting <...steam...> is going to have an effect on both the performance of these additives and the blowdown frequency and duration, as more evaporation is going to take place. Further, as silica is soluble in <...steam...>, the amount of sludge in the <...cooling water...> system is going to increase, leading to increased maintenance activity to remove it.

Operating a cooling water system is a hazardous activity that needs to be properly managed, particularly in respect of the bacterium legionella pneumophila.

Discuss the scheme with the supplier of these additives to come up with a treatment regime that is optimal for the revised arrangement.

Using a heat exchanger to put the heat from <...steam...> onto a proprietary heat transfer fluid for circulation within a closed loop starting at <...60degC...> would be the optimum solution, regardless of current preferences and practices.

If in doubt, consult a local Chemical Engineer well-versed in these concepts.

__________________
"Did you get my e-mail?" - "The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place" - George Bernard Shaw, 1856
Reply
2
Power-User

Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Central Midwest
Posts: 455
Good Answers: 38
#6

Re: Direct Steam Injection into Cooling Water Line at Pump Suction

09/11/2019 10:51 PM

Was the MBA who made this design change promoted into a management job ?

Has he denied any involvement in this change and tried to blame others ?

There are fewer worse ideas or better ways to induce cavitation and damage a pump than to inject steam into the suction side.

Be mindful of the fact that steam injection into cooler water causes much turbulence, vibration and other conditions that will MECHANICALLY DAMAGE THE PUMP, IMPELLER AND PUMP SEALS !!

Reconfigure the piping system and inject the steam into the discharge side of the pump.

Purchase a device designed for this purpose and take the advice of the vendor for preffered piping configurations.

When you let the inexperienced or uneducated redesign your system, equipment will be destroyed ...

Steam heating of water has been done for many decades..... do it the right way

https://www.pickheaters.com/PickHeaters.htm

__________________
We have met the enemy....and he is us. POGO
Reply Good Answer (Score 2)
Guru

Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 1366
Good Answers: 105
#7

Re: Direct Steam Injection into Cooling Water Line at Pump Suction

09/12/2019 1:34 AM

Are you sure that this is not a vacuum pump designed to allow condensation of steam below atmospheric pressure? The installations look like ordinary end suction pumps, and the discharge ( large diameter) is also piped to the suction. It looks crazy when you see one for the first time. It uses the cooler water to create the vacuum as the steam condenses.

Reply
Anonymous Poster #1
#8

Re: Direct Steam Injection into Cooling Water Line at Pump Suction

09/12/2019 6:34 AM

Dear all,

Thank you for the feedback. Its a cooling water pump not vaccum pump. During normal operation it will circulate using cooling water for Reactor, however during no reaction they need to circulate with hot water at 60 deg C so that the fatty alcohol inside the reactor will not solidify. So in order to get hot water at 60 deg C for circulation they directly injection steam at pump suction which they throttle steam via manual valve. This is the current scenario. Please find attached Photo for reference. There is another latest update, i have find out there is condensate tank nearby which most of condensate being send to drain. If i replace the steam injection with this condensate from condensate tank at pump suction to get hot water at 60 deg c, is that it will solve the problem since there will be no steam bubble? Thank you

Reply
Guru

Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 1366
Good Answers: 105
#9
In reply to #8

Re: Direct Steam Injection into Cooling Water Line at Pump Suction

09/12/2019 11:57 AM

You could still end up with cavitation depending on the pressure in the pump suction and the temperature of the condensate. The temp of the condensate will likely be similar to the steam, however you won’t have the heat release of condensing the steam. If easy to do, give it a try, without checking the calculations. You will need a heck of a lot more condensate to get the temperature you want, so that might help pressurize the pump suction.

Reply
Anonymous Poster #1
#10

Re: Direct Steam Injection into Cooling Water Line at Pump Suction

09/18/2019 12:30 AM

Dear guys,
Thank you for the feedback. The pump suction pressure is 1 barg and and steam injection pressure is 3 barg, hence steam pressure is definitely higher than pump suction pressure.

Reply
Guru

Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 1366
Good Answers: 105
#11
In reply to #10

Re: Direct Steam Injection into Cooling Water Line at Pump Suction

09/18/2019 11:06 AM

That suction pressure will help cavitation if you are pumping condensate instead of steam. Your end temp is 60C, so if you control temp into/through pump at 60C, it’s likely it will eliminate your cavitation damage. You just need to make sure you can pump enough condensate to raise the temperature of the water to your 60C target.

Reply Score 1 for Off Topic
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Indeterminate Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: In the bothy, 7 chains down the line from Dodman's Lane level crossing, in the nation formerly known as Great Britain. Kettle's on.
Posts: 32175
Good Answers: 839
#12
In reply to #10

Re: Direct Steam Injection into Cooling Water Line at Pump Suction

09/23/2019 12:02 PM

Sure. Otherwise the cooling water would get into the steam mains, which is definitely unwanted.

Consensus here suggests that it is a bad design. It cannot possibly have been subjected to a HazOp Study, then, could it (rhetorical question - NNTR)?

"Run, Forrest! Run!"

__________________
"Did you get my e-mail?" - "The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place" - George Bernard Shaw, 1856
Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Reply to Forum Thread 12 comments

Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive votes to make them "good answers".

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

Anonymous Poster (3); HiTekRedNek (1); MJCronin (1); PWSlack (2); rwilliams (3); SolarEagle (1); Tornado (1)

Previous in Forum: Gasket Compression Calculation for a Known Load   Next in Forum: Roman Dodecahedrons - What's It Do?

Advertisement