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Wireless Charging Pad Qi

10/14/2019 4:32 AM

The other day, I purchased a wireless charging pad for my new phone. Yes, I was talked into replacing my dinosaur phone with a modern era smart phone. Since my new phone has the built in capability of wireless charging, I bought a charging pad - I've seen people have trouble with charging ports/cables on their iPhones, so wireless charging sounds like a great idea and it's super easy to use.

My pad light will pulsate blue when it's charging the phone. When the phone is charged to 100%, the pad goes dark. So, pulsating blue = charging. After the light goes out, I haven't seen it turn back on, though it must, because the phone uses energy while its sitting on the pad.

If the phone continues to charge, isn't it bad for the battery? I read that lithium ion batteries have a limited number of charge cycles, so if the pad turns back on when the phone gets to some set battery level, isn't it bad for the battery?

Let me know what you guys think.

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#1

Re: Wireless Charging Pad Qi

10/14/2019 8:15 AM

On the one hand...

"One of the criticisms levelled at wireless charging, as explained in this ZDNet article, is that when phones charge via the cable the battery gets a rest, but when they charge on a wireless charging pad it doesn’t. Therefore, the battery goes through its limited number of cycles faster with wireless charging and degrades faster. But is this true?

A phone’s battery is not drained when you use it while charging wirelessly,” Menno Treffers, chairman of the Wireless Power Consortium, told Digital Trends. “This is a misunderstanding.”"

(Source) (Bolding mine)

And on the other...

"Engineers at online repair and device teardown guide iFixIt said the ZDNet author's findings "sound suspicious...and aren't likely 'very scientific.'"

"I’d guess that the battery drain and cycle count is due to usage, not charging method," iFixIt said in an email reply to questions. "The real damage to a battery comes in rapid full-to-empty (and vice versa) charging/discharging, keeping it fully charged, and overheating it."

Not only do wireless chargers tend to keep batteries topped off, and therefore extend their life, they also reduce mechanical wear on the charging port, the iFixIt engineers said."

(Source) (Bolding mine)

So, you might think since the Qi keeps it fully charged, then it's degrading the battery's life faster. But the article continues:

"But, he added, it's not that simple.

The damage from fully charging your battery has lessened over time with more sophisticated mobile battery management systems and incremental improvements in the battery cell technology itself, he said. For example, in 2007, when Steingart was a graduate student, taking a battery cell repeatedly to 4.2 volts meant "an early death" for it. he said. Today, the same damage to modern battery cells would require at least 4.4 volts.

Even though battery cell technology has improved, there are still too many industry variables to know definitively whether one battery will show greater endurance than another based on continuous charging.

"We simply don't know, without a complicated tear-down and reverse engineering of the battery and battery management system, what the actual state of charge when the phone says '100%' is," Steingart said. "Some apps give voltage indication, yes, but without knowing the specific formulation and composition of the cathode, we don't know exactly.""

One more article states: "I've read articles online over the last month that suggest charging an iPhone 8, 8 Plus or X wirelessly will cause the phone long-term battery damage. Perhaps increasing the charge cycles and causing the phone to need a replacement battery sooner than is ideal. I have problems with this, and I want to write a counter argument and explain why I think these stories are wrong.

The stuff I've seen seems to stem from a ZDNet article. Now I'm not interested in a fight, but my understanding of how wireless charging works is different. I'll explain: In the article the claim is made that during a wireless charge an iPhone is powered from its battery, not the charger. This is, I believe, incorrect.

I'm pretty certain when I say that this is wrong scientifically. A battery can't be charged and discharged at the same time, this is simply not possible. When you place a phone on either a wireless charger, or a cable-based charger, you are providing enough power for both the phone to run, and the battery to charge. The phone is operating on mains power, and the leftover goes into the battery. On low output chargers (wireless included) this might lead to slow battery charging, but the process is always the same."

(Source) (Bolding mine)

So my take away from all of this is that the most damaging thing to do to your battery is rapidly charging/discharging. And then heat. This is why I do make use of a wireless charging pad for my iPhone in the house, but I use a wired car charger. The added heat of a wireless charger is not welcome in a car that's already going to be hot at times and in the sun. (Maybe a case could be made that the wireless chargers sit on the air vent and get cooled that way, but, why bother when the wireless charger needs a cable anyway? Just make the cable go directly to the phone. That's why I suggest this car mount.)

Then that leaves battery degradation due to constantly topping off. And while the stances seem to vary, most don't disagree that it's a relatively minor factor. Yes, with smartphones costing upwards of $1,000 and even more these days, we all want to make sure we're protecting our 'investment'. But really, using a wireless charger or not, or how Li-ion batteries respond to constant 80% to 100% charges, all ultimately add up to a small percentage towards the degradation of the life of the battery.

Some people are of the mindset that the battery is a part of a phone you're going to upgrade from in 2, 3, 4 years anyway - so who cares! But with the price of these devices increasing as it is, that's becoming less reasonable, if it ever was to anyone. Considering you're just now getting a smartphone, I'd assume (and respect) your unwillingness to simply accept this planned obsolescence. I think it's a scummy business tactic and they should be held accountable, but is the US government going to do something to restrict a large corporation? I wouldn't hold my breath.

The ultimate solution would be to make a consumable, the battery, user replaceable. If you paid for Apple Care, the battery replacement is covered, among other things. A lot of us here are probably up to the task of opening our phones and replacing the batteries. I've done it to dozens of older iPhones and it has increased their life span a bit, but since you can't buy replacement batteries directly from Apple, you're gambling with the quality of the replacement battery no matter the source.

So, if I were you, I'd probably just not worry about it. Enjoy having your phone at 100% of its capacity every morning and the conveniences of the wireless charger. Sure, that 100% is going to be of a smaller capacity over time, but it's a long time, considering how small (but not negligible) the charging/discharging/repeat wears at the battery.

Oh, also the latest iOS 13.1 has this:

Battery Health
– Optimized battery charging to slow the rate of battery aging by reducing the time your iPhone spends fully charged

Enjoy your new phone!

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#6
In reply to #1

Re: Wireless Charging Pad Qi

10/16/2019 12:27 AM

Wow, awesome response. You answered my question perfectly!

Thank you.

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#2

Re: Wireless Charging Pad Qi

10/14/2019 12:01 PM

The phones now have battery management software included....I don't recommend charging the phone overnight, but rather to set up charging where you spend the most time during the day...the batteries now last a long time between charging, I like to keep my charge between 70% and 95% with occasionally allowing it to go down to 30%(every 6 mos or so)...Don't use your phone for watching movies or gaming on a regular basis...occasionally is fine....these practices have worked for me...

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#3
In reply to #2

Re: Wireless Charging Pad Qi

10/15/2019 11:20 AM

I have a question as this seems like a matter of battery life:

What is the cost to replace the battery? Is it a major or minimal cost item?

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#5
In reply to #3

Re: Wireless Charging Pad Qi

10/15/2019 11:31 AM

Mine was $29 ...bought it 2 years ago, still waiting for the original to go bad....5 years

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#8
In reply to #5

Re: Wireless Charging Pad Qi

10/16/2019 12:34 AM

$29 for a replacement battery? Did you do it yourself or was it done at a phone shop?

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#10
In reply to #8

Re: Wireless Charging Pad Qi

10/16/2019 12:51 AM

This was just the battery, and I still have it.....someplace

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#7
In reply to #2

Re: Wireless Charging Pad Qi

10/16/2019 12:32 AM

Thanks Solar!

I did a test and after three days, the battery was on low. That was just sitting there without any use. What I find interesting is that my trusty flip phone will go a week if it sits without use. Any my little flip phone fits in my pocket and if I accidentally leave it on the shelf at the store, it's still there hours later. Finally, I don't worry about dropping my flip phone - for $50, I can get a new one if it breaks.

I am torn about buying a case for my new phone. I have a feeling it's going to slide out for the pile of stuff I carry and crash to the ground - I don't think it'll take a drop too well. I do have a screen protector, which I think is a good thing. If I put my phone in a case, it'll be bulkier and harder to get out of my pocket. I don't know the right way to go?

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#11
In reply to #7

Re: Wireless Charging Pad Qi

10/16/2019 1:02 AM

You have to be aware that some apps run in the background...there are how-to videos on line that walk you through the process of choosing what apps to run and when, as well as other battery saving settings...My iphone will last a week easy, maybe 10 days or more, haven't really tested it lately....but I have charging in the car and at my computers and bedside, so not really a concern...I have the screen protector and this is my second case, the cases fit so perfectly you don't even realize you have one, until you drop the phone....well worth it to keep the phone looking brand new...

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#14
In reply to #11

Re: Wireless Charging Pad Qi

10/16/2019 1:27 AM

I try to keep stuff from running in the background. When it died after three days, I was a bit upset. Nothing was running in the background other than the iPhone stuff.

Regarding the case, I think it may be a good idea. The phone is actually a bit slippery in my hand and if I'm holding a piece of paper in my hand and the phone next to it, the phone wants to slip out. I have a bad feeling one day its going to fall to the ground.

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#25
In reply to #14

Re: Wireless Charging Pad Qi

10/24/2019 7:42 AM

With modern phones, especially iPhones, aside from buggy/faulty apps that are causing a problem (which you'll notice when it happens), you don't have to worry about apps running in the background. When you switch away from an app, like going to another one, or going to the home screen, it sticks in memory and doesn't continue to 'run' in the background. In fact, going through and force closing all of your apps could actually drain the battery faster as it will take more work for the phone to re-open these apps when you go back to them later than it does to just freeze them in the background.

The only apps I will actually force close when I'm done with them are anything that uses GPS like google maps, waze, apple maps, etc. I may not even have to do that anymore but I've gotten in the habit.

"When it died after three days, I was a bit upset." Ha! If my phone (iPhone XS) lasted 3 days without a charge I would be doing backflips! A full day of use without dying before you can put it on the charger before bed is generally accepted as what to expect. You're not going to have anywhere near the same off-charge time as with a flip-phone or something like that. This will take some getting used to, but don't worry about it.

A lot of people when they make the jump to smartphones like this really care about battery life almost to the point where it becomes worry. These devices are supposed to make certain aspects of our lives easier. So resist the urge to worry about how battery life is doing. Some days will be better than others. Don't use the battery percentage indicator. Just don't worry about it. Unless some crazy app is malfunctioning or you're stuck inside a building where your phone is desperately non-stop searching for signal, you're going to be fine.

So don't worry about janitoring these functions.

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#30
In reply to #25

Re: Wireless Charging Pad Qi

10/27/2019 4:05 AM

Thanks for the info.

About 4-5 years ago, I had a Moto G phone that would go about the same amount of time between charges. To me it's a bit disappointing and I don't use many apps, so it shouldn't take too much power to run the phone.

There have been days when I forget to charge my phone at night, so the trusty flip phone is sure helpful. I do worry about starting the day at 65% on my new phone. If I use it for navigation, I think I'll have to charge it during the day - something I prefer not to do.

I'll run a test on which way works best, keeping the apps open and idle or shutting them down.

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#4

Re: Wireless Charging Pad Qi

10/15/2019 11:28 AM

The things I know about batteries started here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6G9EfbyWFo

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#9
In reply to #4

Re: Wireless Charging Pad Qi

10/16/2019 12:42 AM

Yes, those batteries must be good to finish the race. You did miss one very important thing. The stamina of the drivers. And how do they survive those crashes?

Incredible Shirinking Man

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#16
In reply to #9

Re: Wireless Charging Pad Qi

10/16/2019 12:38 PM

Driver stamina more like keeping your enthusiasm in check as even a slight twitch on the controller and your cars is headed for the wall at 50mph. It really was a nerve racking 5 minutes.

We used NiCads, naked sub C cells 1.2v 1700ma, in packs of six. 7.2 volts and how ever many amps you could stuff into them. We'd cook em for 15 minutes on a 20v 16amp charger. had to sit them on icepaks to keep the cells from popping. Then the cool down on trickle until race time.

I built my own and had the cell matching and timing down. my race packs could dump power for 5 minutes 30 seconds before the drop.

My practice packs could stay up for 8 to 10 but not at full power.

It was a blast.

But not something you can compare to Li batteries.

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#18
In reply to #16

Re: Wireless Charging Pad Qi

10/16/2019 11:03 PM

When you have a minute, take a look at the link in the post above yours.

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#19
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Re: Wireless Charging Pad Qi

10/16/2019 11:05 PM

That's where they get the real drivers from!

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#12

Re: Wireless Charging Pad Qi

10/16/2019 1:04 AM

Solar is correct! I found iPhone 8 batteries for as low as $8.

Other than the inconvenience and time required to change the battery, the cost is minimal. So as long as I don't abuse it; get the phone too hot - sitting on the dash or black leather seat in a car, deep cycle charging and avoid keeping the battery at or near 100%.

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#15
In reply to #12

Re: Wireless Charging Pad Qi

10/16/2019 10:23 AM

The really cheap batteries sold online are usually used, not new, and come from farms....so the lifespan won't be as long as a new battery....

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#17
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Re: Wireless Charging Pad Qi

10/16/2019 10:53 PM

I just watched the video on phone farms. What a joke! People who sell ads should know that this stuff is happening and that the ad space they sell is not really being sent to users all the time.

This stuff is a waste of time. Just like the robo callers who hit my phone 20+ times a day. How much do they really make doing this kind of stuff?

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#13

Re: Wireless Charging Pad Qi

10/16/2019 1:07 AM

Just for kicks, I put my old flip phone on the charging pad. It started flashing fast - the pad doesn't like the oldie. I put my calculator on the pad and ... nothing. I put a spare flip phone battery on the pad and again, fast flashing.

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#20
In reply to #13

Re: Wireless Charging Pad Qi

10/21/2019 7:27 AM

Foreign Object Detection (FOD) designed in the charging IC.

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#21
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Re: Wireless Charging Pad Qi

10/21/2019 3:59 PM

I'm impressed, because it knew the difference between a cell phone and a calculator.

I also put my camera on it and it flashed fast.

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#22
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Re: Wireless Charging Pad Qi

10/21/2019 4:02 PM

Maybe not so impressed. I put my tape dispenser on it and nothing - one of those Scotch tape types. Then I put my heavy Swingline stapler on it and it flashed fast. I'm thinking the pad must have some sort sensor where it detect iron = conducts magnetically. Is that the correct term, conducts?

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#23
In reply to #20

Re: Wireless Charging Pad Qi

10/21/2019 4:06 PM

Next experiment. I put a jumbo paper clip on the pad and nothing. How about a box? Yes, flashing blue light. Two paper clips? Nothing. Three paper clips next to each other? Nothing. Then I placed two paper clips next to each other and placed the third across at a 90 degree angle. The fast flashing. I put the phone back on and the slow flashing = charging.

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#24
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Re: Wireless Charging Pad Qi

10/21/2019 4:17 PM
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#28
In reply to #24

Re: Wireless Charging Pad Qi

10/27/2019 3:57 AM

Incredible. These things are $3.92!

PMOD!

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#26

Re: Wireless Charging Pad Qi

10/24/2019 8:12 PM

I've left my Samsung Android phone plugged in overnight since it was new. (8 hours/night)

The other day, my wife bought a wireless charger for me. I use it when I'm on my laptop which sits on my desk. Maybe two hours total/day.

I THINK that not charging overnight has helped my battery life considerably. I still leave the phone on over night, but not on a charger.

Maybe it's the placebo effect, I don't know. I'll use the wireless pad from now on.

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#29
In reply to #26

Re: Wireless Charging Pad Qi

10/27/2019 3:59 AM

Thanks for your real life Qi usage results. I have a feeling that there will be a benefit by using the wireless charger.

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#27

Re: Wireless Charging Pad Qi

10/24/2019 10:05 PM
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