Previous in Forum: Formulation of White Phenyl   Next in Forum: Building Homes out of Foam
Close
Close
Close
15 comments
Rate Comments: Nested
Participant

Join Date: Apr 2020
Posts: 2

Why Does Chemical Injection Pump Stop on Low and High Conductivity?

04/14/2020 11:22 AM

A chemical system was installed to maintain fully automatic chemistry of a generator rotor and stator cooling water system. One dosing pump was installed in the chemical system for injection of NaoH in a cooling water system. In our design document, if the conductivity of a generator rotor and stator cooling water system was low low or high high in both conditions, the dosing pump would be stopped on auto. Please explain in detail how to stop the dosing pump on low conductivity.

Thanks

Register to Reply
Pathfinder Tags: Dosing pump injection pump
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
Guru
Engineering Fields - Electrical Engineering - Been there, done that. Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Long Island NY
Posts: 15600
Good Answers: 981
#1

Re: Why Does Chemical Injection Pump Stop on Low and High Conductivity?

04/14/2020 12:59 PM

I expect those two conditions are considered to be failure modes, possibly a short and open circuit condition. Defeating any equipment protection system instead of repairing the failure usually results in more damage to the system than the original failure.

This sounds like a classic ESO situation.

__________________
"Don't disturb my circles." translation of Archimedes last words
Register to Reply
Participant

Join Date: Apr 2020
Posts: 2
#2
In reply to #1

Re: Why Does Chemical Injection Pump Stop on Low and High Conductivity?

04/14/2020 1:34 PM

please explain your points in detail p

Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
Engineering Fields - Electrical Engineering - Been there, done that. Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Long Island NY
Posts: 15600
Good Answers: 981
#3
In reply to #2

Re: Why Does Chemical Injection Pump Stop on Low and High Conductivity?

04/14/2020 3:56 PM

Why? You haven't explained anything in detail nor have you provided any references I can look up to obtain more details.

If you contribute something, even what little you understand of my reply I might indulge.

For your snarky request for details for no effort on your part I will explain my acronym.

Equipment Superior to Operator, ESO.

__________________
"Don't disturb my circles." translation of Archimedes last words
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Anonymous Poster #1
#7
In reply to #1

Re: Why Does Chemical Injection Pump Stop on Low and High Conductivity?

04/15/2020 4:14 AM
Register to Reply
Guru
Engineering Fields - Electrical Engineering - Been there, done that. Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Long Island NY
Posts: 15600
Good Answers: 981
#10
In reply to #7

Re: Why Does Chemical Injection Pump Stop on Low and High Conductivity?

04/15/2020 9:04 AM

It's good to know my meaning but using slightly different words is among those acronym definitions.

__________________
"Don't disturb my circles." translation of Archimedes last words
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru

Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: About 4000 miles from the center of the earth (+/-100 mi)
Posts: 9910
Good Answers: 1141
#4

Re: Why Does Chemical Injection Pump Stop on Low and High Conductivity?

04/14/2020 4:59 PM

Ask the person who wrote the document.

Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Indeterminate Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: In the bothy, 7 chains down the line from Dodman's Lane level crossing, in the nation formerly known as Great Britain. Kettle's on.
Posts: 32175
Good Answers: 839
#8
In reply to #4

Re: Why Does Chemical Injection Pump Stop on Low and High Conductivity?

04/15/2020 4:17 AM

The Original Poster could also read the outcome from the HazOp Study.

__________________
"Did you get my e-mail?" - "The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place" - George Bernard Shaw, 1856
Register to Reply
Guru
Engineering Fields - Electrical Engineering - Been there, done that. Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Long Island NY
Posts: 15600
Good Answers: 981
#9
In reply to #8

Re: Why Does Chemical Injection Pump Stop on Low and High Conductivity?

04/15/2020 9:02 AM

Yes they could. Had they cited a section that baffled them I'd gladly help. I choose to ignore demanding lazy people.

__________________
"Don't disturb my circles." translation of Archimedes last words
Register to Reply
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Indeterminate Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: In the bothy, 7 chains down the line from Dodman's Lane level crossing, in the nation formerly known as Great Britain. Kettle's on.
Posts: 32175
Good Answers: 839
#11
In reply to #9

Re: Why Does Chemical Injection Pump Stop on Low and High Conductivity?

04/15/2020 9:43 AM

Not guilty.

__________________
"Did you get my e-mail?" - "The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place" - George Bernard Shaw, 1856
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru

Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 1367
Good Answers: 105
#5

Re: Why Does Chemical Injection Pump Stop on Low and High Conductivity?

04/15/2020 12:20 AM

You could reprogram the low low setpoints to be the new low set point, but that seems contrary to the intent of the engineer who designed the system.

Stopping the pump on low low conductivity is done to prevent damage to the pump, it assumes that perhaps the pump has lost its feed, and running dry will damage it. The pump not running will likely produce an alarm, so that someone will go look at it.

The low low and high high setpoints are an indication that your dosing system is out of control, the pump probably should be running all the time, and some other variable such as pump speed, dilution, or valve opening is the primary conductivity control.

Be sure you understand your equipment before making changes, it seems from the question that perhaps you have left some details out.

Register to Reply
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Indeterminate Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: In the bothy, 7 chains down the line from Dodman's Lane level crossing, in the nation formerly known as Great Britain. Kettle's on.
Posts: 32175
Good Answers: 839
#6

Re: Why Does Chemical Injection Pump Stop on Low and High Conductivity?

04/15/2020 3:50 AM

There will be a set of switching contacts on the <...conductivity...> instrument that should ideally open on a deviation from normal. The Designer will wire those contacts into the circuit that connects power to the pump and the Commissioning Engineer will enter a set-point that opens them on <...low conductivity...>, thereby stopping the pump.

Simples ξ.

However, <...low conductivity...> is not a normal condition in <...cooling water...> systems, as it suggests that dissolved solids have been removed somewhere to create it; adding <...NaOH...>, or anything else for that matter, into the <...cooling water...> will cause it to increase, as will evaporation at a cooling tower. Removing dissolved solids can really only take place either by using the condensate from evaporation, or by using membrane technology like reverse osmosis, and there is no hint that either of these processes are taking place from the original post. As such it is highly unlikely that a <...low conductivity...> condition would occur. It is more likely, as suggested above, that the absence of liquid will be a more frequent occurrence, in which case a liquid presence detector, such as the electronic tuning-fork style instruments (manufacturers' names withheld), or even a simple low level switch in a feed tank will be a simpler approach.

The operation of evaporative <...cooling water...> systems is hazardous, requiring detailed attention to the circuit's chemistry so as to avoid fouling, both chemical and biological, and the development of legionella pneumophilia, and therefore is not for the untrained.

__________________
"Did you get my e-mail?" - "The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place" - George Bernard Shaw, 1856
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: 44.56024"N 15.307971E
Posts: 8277
Good Answers: 270
#12
In reply to #6

Re: Why Does Chemical Injection Pump Stop on Low and High Conductivity?

04/16/2020 11:03 PM

The warning sign below applies to any machinery as well as computers.

I think it is appropriate in this case.

ACHTUNG! ALLES LOOKENSPEEPERS!
Das computermachine ist nicht fuer gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitzensparken. Ist nicht fuer gewerken bei das dumpkopfen. Das rubbernecken sichtseeren keepen das cotten-pickenen hans in das pockets muss; relaxen und watchen das blinkenlichten.

__________________
"A man never stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child." "Never argue with a stupid person.They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience" "To create an apple pie from scratch, first you must create a universe"
Register to Reply
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Indeterminate Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: In the bothy, 7 chains down the line from Dodman's Lane level crossing, in the nation formerly known as Great Britain. Kettle's on.
Posts: 32175
Good Answers: 839
#13

Re: Why Does Chemical Injection Pump Stop on Low and High Conductivity?

04/18/2020 2:07 PM

It is not possible to control pH, for which <...NaOH...> is added, using a conductivity instrument.

It is not possible to control conductivity using <...NaOH...>.

__________________
"Did you get my e-mail?" - "The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place" - George Bernard Shaw, 1856
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 1367
Good Answers: 105
#14
In reply to #13

Re: Why Does Chemical Injection Pump Stop on Low and High Conductivity?

04/18/2020 7:35 PM

Have you considered a process that uses acid to clean copper oxides from the insides of generator winding cooling passages?

Register to Reply
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Indeterminate Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: In the bothy, 7 chains down the line from Dodman's Lane level crossing, in the nation formerly known as Great Britain. Kettle's on.
Posts: 32175
Good Answers: 839
#15
In reply to #14

Re: Why Does Chemical Injection Pump Stop on Low and High Conductivity?

05/14/2020 7:08 AM

Three times.

__________________
"Did you get my e-mail?" - "The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place" - George Bernard Shaw, 1856
Register to Reply
Register to Reply 15 comments

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

Anonymous Poster (1); HiTekRedNek (1); PWSlack (5); redfred (4); Rixter (1); rwilliams (2); TurbineLover (1)

Previous in Forum: Formulation of White Phenyl   Next in Forum: Building Homes out of Foam

Advertisement