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Is Dark Matter Black Holes?

09/27/2020 12:32 PM

"It was an old idea of Stephen Hawking’s: Unseen “primordial” black holes might be the hidden dark matter. It fell out of favor for decades, but a new series of studies has shown how the theory can work."

It seems that LIGO is detecting black hole mergers that are too large to be collapsed stars. Maybe there are enough black holes to account for the "dark matter".

https://www.quantamagazine.org/black-holes-from-the-big-bang-could-be-the-dark-matter-20200923/

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#1

Re: Is Dark Matter Black Holes?

09/27/2020 2:03 PM

I have a couple of theories...One is that we are deceived by the apparent clarity of space, that it is actually a sea of dust and light passes through it by the tiny gravity fields that bend space/time around these tiny particles....as you get closer to a galaxy the particle density begins to increase, and so on until you reach celestial bodies of solid matter, and at the center of the galaxy the density is the greatest and finally at the center it's so dense that gravity itself collapses and a black hole phenomenon is produced...so there are tiny bits of matter all through space, and it just gets dense enough around galaxies to have been noticed ....

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#2
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Re: Is Dark Matter Black Holes?

09/27/2020 4:15 PM

I understand that the amount of hydrogen, deuterium, helium, lithium, etc produced in the big bang is very sensitive to the photon to baryon ratio. The photon density can be determined from the cosmic microwave background, so the baryon density can be determined from this ratio. It turns out that normal matter (dust, gas, stars, planets) work out to 4.5% - 5.5%. Black holes created in the big bang are not included in this.

"Since we can measure the original photon density (from the cosmic microwave background), figuring out the overall baryon density is relatively easy. What we learn from these observations is that about 4.5-to-5.5 percent of the Universe’s critical density exists in the form of normal matter of all types combined, meaning that whatever the other 25-to-29 percent of dark matter is, it can’t be normal matter of any type!"

https://medium.com/starts-with-a-bang/could-dark-matter-just-be-normal-stuff-thats-dark-5e680e7a066e

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#3
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Re: Is Dark Matter Black Holes?

09/27/2020 6:02 PM

The rest of the matter seems to be in unobservable dimensions folded into a space that can't be seen by normal observation but still influences that space/time we occupy...this seems to be one possible explanation...another seems to be that the measurement doesn't seem to take into account some factors unknown to us...In other words there is some force we are unaware of...perhaps space is folded and we are only observing a part of it...perhaps there's some heavy form of mass that is repelled by other known forms of mass, or vice versa....In other words the two types of mass are opposing forces, that oppose on one level and attract on another....perhaps it's antimatter, that opposes at one distance and attracts at a closer distance, and remains hidden from direct observation...Perhaps during inflation matter/antimatter annellation was triggered by a force that no longer existed after inflation...and then separated into two dimensions that occupy the same space but at different energy levels, a higher energy level we are unaware of, but has an enhanced mass....

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#4
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Re: Is Dark Matter Black Holes?

09/27/2020 6:45 PM

"A decade after the dark matter problem was established in the 1970s, WIMPs were suggested as a potential solution to the issue.[10] Although the existence of WIMPs in nature is still hypothetical, it would resolve a number of astrophysical and cosmological problems related to dark matter.

There is consensus today among astronomers that most of the mass in the Universe is indeed dark. Simulations of a universe full of cold dark matter produce galaxy distributions that are roughly similar to what is observed.[11][12]

By contrast, hot dark matter would smear out the large-scale structure of galaxies and thus is not considered a viable cosmological model.

WIMPs fit the model of a relic dark matter particle from the early Universe, when all particles were in a state of thermal equilibrium. For sufficiently high temperatures, such as those existing in the early Universe, the dark matter particle and its antiparticle would have been both forming from and annihilating into lighter particles.

As the Universe expanded and cooled, the average thermal energy of these lighter particles decreased and eventually became insufficient to form a dark matter particle-antiparticle pair. The annihilation of the dark matter particle-antiparticle pairs, however, would have continued, and the number density of dark matter particles would have begun to decrease exponentially.[6]

Eventually, however, the number density would become so low that the dark matter particle and antiparticle interaction would cease, and the number of dark matter particles would remain (roughly) constant as the Universe continued to expand.[8]

Particles with a larger interaction cross section would continue to annihilate for a longer period of time, and thus would have a smaller number density when the annihilation interaction ceases.

Based on the current estimated abundance of dark matter in the Universe, if the dark matter particle is such a relic particle, the interaction cross section governing the particle-antiparticle annihilation can be no larger than the cross section for the weak interaction.[6]

If this model is correct, the dark matter particle would have the properties of the WIMP."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weakly_interacting_massive_particles

This scenario seems to fit best....

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#5

Re: Is Dark Matter Black Holes?

09/27/2020 9:05 PM

I think dark matter is actually a measure of our ignorance of the universe.

As our grey matter grows,the dark matter will shrink.

"'A foolish man thinks he is wise;A wise man knows he is a fool."

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#6

Re: Is Dark Matter Black Holes?

09/28/2020 2:31 AM

I followed the 1980-1999 research and debate on primordial black holes and was disappointed when they seemed to be ruled out by observation. I'm exited about a possible revival!

From the article quoted in the OP (near end):

"In the meantime, other astrophysicists are probing different aspects of the theory. For example, perhaps the strongest constraints on primordial black holes come from microlensing searches — those same surveys that began in the 1990s. In these efforts, astronomers monitor bright but distant sources, waiting to see if a dark object passes in front of them. These searches have long ruled out an evenly dispersed population of small black holes.

But if primordial black holes exist at a range of masses, and if they’re packed into dense, massive clusters, those results could be less significant than researchers thought, García-Bellido said."

So much easier on my mind than WIMPS...

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#7
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Re: Is Dark Matter Black Holes?

09/28/2020 4:39 AM

"Although the basic formation process is understood, one perennial mystery in the science of black holes is that they appear to exist on two radically different size scales. On the one end, there are the countless black holes that are the remnants of massive stars. Peppered throughout the Universe, these "stellar mass" black holes are generally 10 to 24 times as massive as the Sun. Astronomers spot them when another star draws near enough for some of the matter surrounding it to be snared by the black hole's gravity, churning out x-rays in the process. Most stellar black holes, however, lead isolated lives and are impossible to detect. Judging from the number of stars large enough to produce such black holes, however, scientists estimate that there are as many as ten million to a billion such black holes in the Milky Way alone."

Why no accretion disks?

https://science.nasa.gov/astrophysics/focus-areas/black-holes

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#8
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Re: Is Dark Matter Black Holes?

09/28/2020 5:09 AM

"Most stellar black holes, however, lead isolated lives and are impossible to detect."

No accretion disks because they have nothing left in their vicinity to devour. Stars, planets, dust and gas that orbit at more than about 10 horizon radii do not generate enough friction to radiate appreciably and hence lose enough energy to disrupt their orbits, so they do not spiral in.

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#9
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Re: Is Dark Matter Black Holes?

09/28/2020 5:26 AM

So is the top end estimate of a billion black holes enough to make up for the missing mass/dark matter for the Milky Way Galaxy ?....or does it still fall short? How much wiggle room is there?

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#10
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Re: Is Dark Matter Black Holes?

09/28/2020 7:02 AM

AFAIK, a top end of a billion just in the Milky way, so the observable universe may contain trillions. The majority had to be primordial, made well inside the first second of the BB, before normal matter was formed.

According to the article in the OP, the total mass as deduced from LiGO data seems to fit the missing (dark) matter.

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#11

Re: Is Dark Matter Black Holes?

09/28/2020 7:05 AM

When we talk about an expanding universe, what or where are we suggesting it is expanding into, a universe of dark matter? From our perspective we have to find a yes or no. When we find this answer?

So are Hawking's primordial black holes the remnants of a universe that collapsed upon itself culminating in a big bang that did not include all matter only that which was enough to reach critical mass and reaches out only to be consumed in this dark universe?

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Re: Is Dark Matter Black Holes?

09/28/2020 9:36 AM

The answers are no and no. The cosmic expansion happens into an extra (4th) spatial dimension that we cannot directly observe. We have no evidence that there was a prior spatial collapse, although that may be possible.

From your questions, it seems that you could do with watching a good introductory lecture on cosmology, of which there are many available online. If you really want to learn, look at the series of 4 lectures by:

Barbara Ryden (Ohio State University).

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#13

Re: Is Dark Matter Black Holes?

09/28/2020 10:37 AM

I presume the recalculation of quark and gluon fluid dynamics that might resurrect Hawking's "primordial" black holes comes from the creation and studies of Bose-Einstein condensate first discovered by RHIC.

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#14

Re: Is Dark Matter Black Holes?

09/28/2020 11:39 PM

Maybe a lot of matter was quantum entangled from the Big Bang early moments, and is now exerting some unknown force...?

https://phys.org/news/2020-09-quantum-entanglement-distant-large.html

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#15

Re: Is Dark Matter Black Holes?

09/29/2020 1:23 AM

Redfred and Solar, I would recommend to not break your brains on those ideas, for we have enough more plausible ones anyway.

As Günther Hasinger, ESA’s science director, who made the case that primordial black holes could explain multiple mysteries, said:

"The idea is appealing because it doesn’t invoke new particles or new physics theories. It just repurposes old elements. I believe maybe some of the puzzles which are still out there could actually solve themselves when you look with different eyes."

(From the OP source)

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#16
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Re: Is Dark Matter Black Holes?

09/29/2020 9:11 AM

Yes, I noticed that quote in the original posting and completely agree with it.

I was trying to reinforce that those old theories and their particles are regularly independently tested by many machines. In particular RHIC forming the quark-gluon Bose-Einstein Condensate (BEC) that presumably only previously existed right after the Big Bang. The observations of how that type of condensate acted and collapsed may explain how the primordial black holes retained integrity instead of being scattered across the new universe. One paper on that transition from the Bang itself relies on just such a BEC.

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#17
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Re: Is Dark Matter Black Holes?

09/29/2020 9:54 AM

Hey I can remember when the universe was just the Milky Way Galaxy....haha

My mind has already been blown by the Hubble telescope, and that was years ago...You can't confine me to any accepted reality, I've acquired immunity...

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