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Free Energy from Graphene?

10/03/2020 8:21 PM

Free energy from the thermal motion of graphene...how can this actually work?

https://news.uark.edu/articles/54830/physicists-build-circuit-that-generates-clean-limitless-power-from-graphene

It looks like the electronic version of Maxwell's Demon to me.

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#1

Re: Free Energy from Graphene?

10/03/2020 8:53 PM

Seems like they are harnessing entropy...very small amount of power...

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#2
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Re: Free Energy from Graphene?

10/03/2020 10:00 PM

I don't know. Harnessing entropy, for example, Blue Energy, you are getting energy from low entropy (separated ocean and freshwater) and going to brackish water (high entropy). The energy originates from the sunshine that evaporated ocean water, creating the low entropy.

Here you are starting with high entropy (thermal energy of the graphene diaphragm at ambient temperature) and removing that energy, converting it to low entropy in charging a capacitor. This has to cool the graphene, heat flows in from the environment, over and over. Lowering entropy requires energy input, it does not release energy.

Where is all this energy coming from? You can't violate energy conservation, even for a small amount of power.

I'm wondering if the experiment was conducted in a Faraday cage. The environment is full of (low entropy) energy from broadcast radio and TV to electromagnetic fields from electrical devices and transmission, and this energy can be captured.

Just my thoughts...

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#3
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Re: Free Energy from Graphene?

10/03/2020 11:27 PM

I'm always suspicious when somebody says they are creating, or in this case capturing energy from someplace(?), and there is a battery in the circuit...

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#5
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Re: Free Energy from Graphene?

10/04/2020 9:11 AM

I agree, a lot of perpetual motion machines run on batteries, at least for a while.

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#6
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Re: Free Energy from Graphene?

10/04/2020 3:55 PM

The closest thing I know of that is perpetual motion is the hot air emitted from politicians,with peak output being election years.

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#7
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Re: Free Energy from Graphene?

10/04/2020 4:04 PM

Duplicate posted in error.

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#14
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Re: Free Energy from Graphene?

10/07/2020 10:01 PM

It could be posted in perpetuity.

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#4
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Re: Free Energy from Graphene?

10/04/2020 1:08 AM

"Here you are starting with high entropy (thermal energy of the graphene diaphragm at ambient temperature) and removing that energy, converting it to low entropy in charging a capacitor."

Are you not heating up the capacitor then, which loses the energy back to the environment again? But achieving over-unity? Nah!

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#8

Re: Free Energy from Graphene?

10/07/2020 12:01 AM

Once again, I'm reminded that I'm a classical applied physicist. Apparently, I was lost in the discussion, and bailed out before I saw anything about an experiment.

The animation appears to show the Graphene oscillating. What energy source causes that oscillation?

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#11
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Re: Free Energy from Graphene?

10/07/2020 12:03 PM

What energy source causes that oscillation?

According to the documentation, thermal energy from the environment.

"In addition, the technology has the potential to allow any object to send, receive, and store information, powered solely by the heat of being at room temperature."

https://www.iflscience.com/technology/graphene-loophole-could-provide-clean-and-limitless-energy-in-the-future/

Original paper:

https://cpb-us-e1.wpmucdn.com/wordpressua.uark.edu/dist/3/316/files/2017/06/PhysRevLett.117.126801.pdf

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#13
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Re: Free Energy from Graphene?

10/07/2020 8:24 PM

Thanks for the links. I did view/study both. I'm still highly skeptical of the likelihood of generating significant energy via this or any related process. I'd love to be proven wrong!

If they are indeed able to extract energy form the device, it will be cooled below ambient temperature, slowing the vibration/oscillation. If any resonance is involved, and I believe it must be, then the cooling/slowing would weaken or destroy the resonance. New energy would then automatically come from neighboring atoms/objects until a significant region is below ambient temperature. I have no idea how rapidly this would occur.

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#15
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Re: Free Energy from Graphene?

10/07/2020 10:13 PM

Such a device would suck the heat out of the environment (solving global warming!) and convert it back to useful work. Installed in a refrigerator, you could run other appliances while keeping your beer cold.

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#9

Re: Free Energy from Graphene?

10/07/2020 5:08 AM

Nice

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#10

Re: Free Energy from Graphene?

10/07/2020 9:45 AM

"According to Kumar, the graphene and circuit share a symbiotic relationship. Though the thermal environment is performing work on the load resistor, the graphene and circuit are at the same temperature and heat does not flow between the two.

That’s an important distinction, said Thibado, because a temperature difference between the graphene and circuit, in a circuit producing power, would contradict the second law of thermodynamics. “This means that the second law of thermodynamics is not violated, nor is there any need to argue that ‘Maxwell’s Demon’ is separating hot and cold electrons,” Thibado said."

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#12

Re: Free Energy from Graphene?

10/07/2020 1:29 PM

It is known that a single-walled sheet of carbon nanotube will act as an audio speaker if two electrodes are connected, and an audio signal is applied. This was traced to be caused by thermal gradients on the surface. This process is PROBABLY reciprocal; if heat is applied to the nano surface, an electrical signal should appear at the terminals.

If this is true, the surface should produce electricity when exposed to any heat source. The sun would be no exception.

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