The Future of the Battery?

Well I'm smart enough to know you can't tell the future, if we could we'd all be rich eh? ....but I would speculate that there will be no clear answer to this question when that future you speak of does arrive...I suspect there will be many different types of energy storage that work best in the niche market they serve....maybe a safe nuclear battery will some day dominate the heavy lifting, who can say.....

Lotsa eggs... Lotsa baskets.

All the eggs are not in one basket, which is a good thing. Competition is good.

Did you really mean: "...I'll dominate the future markets?",

or did you intend to say: "...will dominate..."

If you need to ask this question, then I'm pretty sure you will NOT dominate the market.

And to produce a smartphone with a 5-day battery life will require not only a better battery, but also better smartphone technology. Witness the iPhone 12 family.

Depending on the battery I do plan on dominating the future..

Okay no, it was a typo! Solid state battery seems very interesting, Quantum Scape is making some nice progress, you guys heard of them?

Theirs is the solid state battery I was referring to.Here is a link:

https://techxplore.com/news/2020-12-solid-state-automotive-battery-ev-industry.html?utm_source=nwletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=daily-nwletter

Very encouraging.

Nice! I have a feeling we might hear from them some more in the near future.

Can't wait, hoping this new tech will transform our daily life for the best.

https://www.renewableenergyworld.com/2019/04/03/why-lithiumion-technology-is-poised-to-dominate-the-energy-storage-future/

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/business/autos/general-motors/2020/11/17/general-motors-commercialize-ultium-battery-fuel-cell-technologies-future/6258788002/

In addition to the advancement in battery technology,electric motors are becoming more efficient above 94%% using Halbach magnet technology.

They produce 5hp per pound currently and will probably dominate the future vehicles where power and weight are critical.

Here's another:

https://newatlas.com/energy/printable-high-density-batteries-silver-oxide/?utm_source=New+Atlas+Subscribers&utm_campaign=6b0311d426-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2020_12_11_10_45&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_65b67362bd-6b0311d426-92770973

yes there is work going on in solid state batteries. wish i could say more, except that it looks very promising.

another front that i did not see anyone talk about is the silicon battery. this element will give you the 10X (100X if i recall properly-been a while) that of lithium, problem right now is volume change to SiO2 and back which breaks the electrical paths.

The most recent advance I have heard of is solid state batteries.

It will take a while before they are marketed commercially,but they hold promise of much greater capacity and durability.

Combined with super capacitors they may be the norm in the future;for a while at least.

Progress is constant and inevitable.

My crystal ball is a bit foggy today but I think that the lithium metal battery is a good contender for the period 2030 to 2040. After that, well I only bought the cheap crystal ball so, who knows.

There is a possibility that the next big thing in batteries will not be better stronger, but better because it's easily recyclable....It will be adopted due to political correctness, not because it stores more power, in fact it may be a slight step down, be more costly up front, but deemed better for the planet...so this might be as good as it gets, at least for a while....

GA. I fully agree with your comment about recycling but would like to see this go further. In a field where developments and improvements are announced almost every week, batteries that could get a low cost upgrade by changing out the anodes, membranes or electrolyte while keeping the casing, connections and mounting fittings, would take away the prospect of locking in to a battery that could become obsolete very quickly. Designing batteries in a modular fashion with this in mind leaves more options open. This is probably more important to utilities investing millions in renewable backup than a car owner investing a few thousand in a power pack or a home owner guarding against power outs. But it would be a great incentive to buy in all larger battery markets.

In modern industrial controls a common backplane is used.

Upgrades are made by exchanging a particular board with the newer one,and the original is sent back to a Central Repair Facility or contracted repair facility for modification.

The hard wiring and backplane remain the same,saving time and money on upgrades and reducing scrap.

Too much consumer level products are currently made to use once and throw away,not repair.

Repairs are impossible for the average repair shop without special equipment,and the cost of repairs is usually high enough to justify buying a new one.

The software is locked down,and it is illegal to bypass it to make repairs.

They have repair shops hobbled by excessive regulations,and make it illegal or impossible to even swap a hard drive from a spare to fix another one.

Some shops have dozens of devices that could be salvaged for repair parts,but that is not allowed.

You never own anything,not even your own DNA.

The mass of man made material now is greater than all of the living organisms on the planet.

It is a shame.

Based on what we have done on Earth,mankind would leave a trail of trash behind as we travel through the galaxy.

If a battery is ten times stronger,and last 10 times longer it will require less recycling,and be more PC.

There is always a need for more efficiency.

But I do agree that everything should be designed to be recyclable or reusable or biodegradable.

Quantumscape seems to be leading the pack with solid state lithium batteries...at least they are throwing a ton of money at it...

https://www.quantumscape.com/#technology

Very interesting. VW is a a great company to have as a backer/customer.

I can't help wondering what kind of battery the just announced Apple car will use.

I was wondering the same thing...maybe they are just going to use these...he said they're not exclusive to Volkswagen...It seems they would need something more proprietary to start a car company...and I don't see that if they had their own design battery that it could be any better...no they need something more than just brand name recognition...Maybe the plan is just to undercut prices...

Apple undercut prices? I doubt it... Apple's forte is making devices that are intuitive to use, and I believe that's why they can charge somewhat higher prices than the competition, and keep on selling them.

It's no secret that Apple has been working on autonomous vehicles for quite a few years. A number of ex-Apple employees are known to have gone to work for Tesla, and I wouldn't be surprised if the reverse has also occurred.

In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if the new product turns out to be a cooperative effort of the two companies.

2025 is a long way off....they might be shooting for the Moon trying to beat Tesla...It seems they have some connection with Volkswagen as well, maybe it's the software that will be theirs, and Volkswagen the builder with the Quantumscape batteries that are due in 2024....The Volkswagen Applecar....

https://www.macrumors.com/roundup/apple-car/

Just saw an ad from Porsche for the new electric sports car.

Haven’t driven a regular Porsche for many years, but my recollection is of great handling and mediocre acceleration.

Porshe does own a controlling interest in Volkswagen...something like 52%....

"The Taycan 4S, Turbo and Turbo S drive all four wheels with two electric motors. The peak outputs of 522 horsepower (4S with base battery), 563 horsepower (4S with bigger battery), 670 horsepower (Turbo), and 750 (Turbo S) only last for short bursts of 2.5 seconds at a time. After that, all models reduce the output slightly to protect the drivetrain from heat. The shifts of the rear motor's unique two-speed transmission are almost imperceptible during regular driving. But activate launch control, and the Porsche knocks out a one-two shift that is as quick and as hard as any gas-powered sports car. In our testing, the Turbo S ripped to 60 mph in 2.4 seconds, making it the fastest EV-only car we've ever tested and the third-quickest car in the history of our testing. (Behind the Lamborghini Huracán Performante and the Porsche 918 Spyder.) We haven't tested the Turbo or the 4S, but we estimate they should do the deed in 3.0 seconds and 3.8 seconds, respectively. It's normal for EVs to get slower as the battery charge depletes, but Porsche says the Taycan will be able to execute 10 back-to-back launches with consistent performance."

Slo no mo...

https://www.caranddriver.com/porsche/taycan

I don’t know about small devices for watches and phones. But a fascinating technology appears to *finally* be emerging from the laboratories of Brilliant Ligh Power.

Their process is based on the idea that Hydrogen is not the smallest element in the Universe. Sub-hydrogen “elements” called “hydrionos” can be made from Hydrogen and other elements. And the process is either exothermic or exoluminant. The exoluminant lends itself to mating with conventional photocells to generate kilowatts of electricity.

They have been working for close to 20 years to get this going, so don’t hold your breath. But this process is the only one I have ever encountered that may ultimately end carbon-based energy generation.

If it sounds to good to be true,it usually is.

I know you are well qualified Bill,but even Penn and Teller get fooled sometimes.

I am definitely for any progress in this area,and I am aware of the dogmatic attitude of most scientists to any technology that interferes with their comfort zone of knowledge.

More information on how this technology works,on an atomic level would be helpful in increasing credibility.

What is the catalyst made of?

Has this technology been peer reviewed?Papers published?

Will it be practical,size and cost wise to mass produce for the general public,or will big business lock it up with legalese mumbo-jumbo to milk all the profits from it?

I really hope this works out for every living thing on this planet.

Please go to brilliantlightpower.com

There are links to numerous working model videos, links to published papers and for the dauntless... a *huge* theory-laced tome, modestly called the Grand Unified Theory of Classical Physics - (GUTCP) that single steps you through from currently accepted Newtonian/Einsteinian concepts to — IMNTBHO—- a new concept that adds dramatically to the lore of atomic, nuclear & sub-nuclear physics.

Haha, sounds very Rossi-esc E-cattish....shurley you jest....

I well remember the scams of Rossi et al.
BrLP is in a different category. The theory appears sound. I “only” have a BSEE + beaucoup years in industry, but folks with alphabet soup behind their names have “bent their picks” trying to debunk both the theory and the implementation. They appear to be moving now from laboratory to product.
Initial lab implementation is at the MW level... an “interestingly” challenge When you are putting just a few KW in and big hunks of stuff start to melt!

My *guess* is that the first product may be a steam engine... piston or turbine?
or maybe just a building-size water heater. ��

Scam scam scam....

Robert L. Park, emeritus professor of physics at the University of Maryland and a notable skeptic, has been particularly critical of BLP since 1991.^[1] By 2000, Park remained skeptical, stating:

"Unlike most schemes for free energy, the hydrino process of Randy Mills is not without ample theory.^[38] Mills has written a 1000 page tome, entitled, "The Grand Unified Theory of Classical Quantum Mechanics", that takes the reader all the way from hydrinos to antigravity.^[39] Fortunately, Aaron Barth [...] has taken upon himself to look through it, checking for accuracy. Barth is a post doctoral researcher at the Harvard–Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics, and holds a PhD in Astronomy, 1998, from UC Berkeley. What he found initially were mathematical blunders and unjustified assumptions. To his surprise, however, portions of the book seemed well organized. These, it now turns out, were lifted verbatim from various texts. This has been the object of a great deal of discussion from Mills' Hydrino Study Group. "Mills seems not to understand what the fuss is all about." – Park^[40]

"By 2008, Park continued to express his skepticism:

"BlackLight Power (BLP), founded 17 years ago as HydroCatalysis, announced last week that the company had successfully tested a prototype power system that would generate 50 KW of thermal power. BLP anticipates delivery of the new power system in 12 to 18 months. The BLP process,^[41] discovered by Randy Mills, is said to coax hydrogen atoms into a "state below the ground state", called the "hydrino." There is no independent scientific confirmation of the hydrino, and BLP has a patent problem. So they have nothing to sell but bull ****. The company is therefore dependent on investors with deep pockets and shallow brains." – Park^[42] "

It's now 2020, and this scam has been exposed for 29 years....are you in a coma or what?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brilliant_Light_Power

The Wikipedia listing for BLP was t

”taken over” by anti BLP “monitors” some years ago. Any attempt to post current data or corrections is *immediately* removed.

30 years no results...no patents....no proof of concept....debunked by every expert in the field....scam scam scam...the proof is in the pudding, you have no pudding!!

This guy should be in prison....

I did go there...

I admit that I'm an old classical physicist, not at all comfortable with Quantum physics. But I'm way less comfortable with "Hydrinos", and any related "Physics".

"There are links to numerous working model videos,". Once upon a time, there was some truth to "seeing is Believing", even with photographs and videos. That is clearly no longer the case! I smell a scam...

well i by no means consider myself smarter than you, but i can add my thoughts on the subject.

there are a couple of issues with higher storage. first being safety. These smart phones are carried in the pockets of people all over the world from nuclear physicist to children.

I can assure you that most people do not even consider the power that is packed into the battery that powers the device. safety is a huge concern and with the little bit of introduction i have had, i know that the electrolyte which was at one time very flammable. Since that time, quite a bit of work has been done on developing non-flammable electrolyte, separators that will resist internal shorting due to things like dendritic growth, creation of the solid state battery.

Heat management is another issue that needs to be mitigated. especially when we go to the large battery packs that power a vehicle or even more so the take off of an airplane. A lot of current is moving in a tight package so cooling systems are being developed along with the increase of storage.

it is quite possible that there will be hybrid systems such that a turbo prop for takeoff and then battery for cruising or the use of battery with flywheel technology.

I would expect hybrid technologies to exist before the quantum leap in battery storage.

Whichever way it goes, expect to be charged for it.

I would like to see this technology replace standard 3 phase and single phase motors in all applications.

Like the incandescent bulbs are slowly being replaced with LED's.

This would make a significant dent in energy usage worldwide.

At least if we manage to keep up the progress we've been making over the last few years we are in for a much better future. I just replaced the six cell NiCad battery in my old drill:-

With two 18650s Lithium cells

They fit so well: it's almost as though DeWalt predicted their arrival when they designed it. (I did need to cut some little plastic ribs off the inside of the handle.)

The new cells and BMS (Battery Management System PCB taped to the side of the cells) cost far less than a new NICAD battery and have twice the capacity of the original battery.

The driver is much less cumbersome; oh, and the charger is more convenient:

Thanks! Were you able to buy the battery and charger from the same source?

I've thought many times about doing that for my old NiCd Makita drill, but never got around to it...

A few more details would be appreciated.

"Were you able to buy the battery and charger from the same source?"

Yes this is an ebay search for a 7.4 volt battery and USB charger.

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2334524.m570.l1313&_nkw=7.4v+lipo+battery+with+USB+charger&_sacat=0&LH_TitleDesc=0&_osacat=0&_odkw=7.4v+lipo+battery+with+charger

And this an ebay search for a 2S 18650 BMS PCB

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2334524.m570.l1313&_nkw=2S+18650+BMS+PCB&_sacat=0&LH_TitleDesc=0&_osacat=0&_odkw=2S+18650+BMS+PCB

The "2S" is for a 2 cell battery 3S for 3 cells etc.

In the battery pack

The red wires in both connectors are common to the Battery+; the black wires common to the battery-, and the white wire in the connector which mates with the charger goes to the mid point.

The charger monitors both cells and prevents overcharging.

I "tapped" into the white wire, and, cut off the larger connector to make the connections to the BMS.

Of course the BMS is designed to control bothe overcharging and over discharging.

But with the configuration I have described, the charger deals with charging, and, the BMS deals with discharging: the input/output wires only go to the load.

I suspect that for larger batteries you would be better using the BMS exactly as intended.

Sorry for any typos, I'm a bit rushed.

watches have been around many years with no batteries, maybe we will see this technology used on smartphones as well. Even if it means winding your smartphone every few hours, it may still be better than current batteries.

Haha ...

Yeah and probably hang them on the walls....

Try finding the energy content of a wound watch spring...

...."about 0.3 Joule "...

...."A typical phone battery might have 2,000 mAh, or about 29,000 joules."...

You would need about 97,000 watch springs to equal the power in the typical smartphone battery...or one really big spring....

Excellent articles. Thanks SE!

You mean like Trevor Baylis' wind up radio