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Electric Shock

12/09/2020 9:16 PM

One of the operators said he received an electric shock to his finger. Is this even possible? The voltage was 24VAC, the two points were tip of his finger and middle of same finger. Assume he was extremely sweaty.

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#1

Re: Electric Shock

12/09/2020 10:10 PM

I would say it is definitely possible, assuming he was very sweaty, to get a tingle from 24vac. It's the current you feel as a shock. Current is normally limited by the insulating properties of skin and salty sweat bypasses this insulation.

As another example, nine-volt batteries can be tested on the tongue because the skin insulation is similarly bypassed.

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#2

Re: Electric Shock

12/09/2020 11:07 PM

I've had the same thing happen, so yes it is possible...probably anybody who handles a lot of low voltage control wiring would tell you the same thing...

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#3

Re: Electric Shock

12/10/2020 2:32 AM

Of course it is possible. It is unlikely to be fatal.

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#4

Re: Electric Shock

12/10/2020 12:30 PM

Absolutely. Like others have said, not likely to cause injury or death, but definitely sensed or felt. At lower voltages, I believe AC is more likely to be felt than DC due to the changing currents, so the 'tingle' is more noticeable based on my anecdotal experiences.

There is a very good paper published in 1961 by Charles F. Dalziel titled, "Deleterious Effects of Electric Shock". This paper goes into depth the effects of shocks of various strengths on humans from experimental data.

http://www.wright.edu/~guy.vandegrift/wikifiles/Electric%20shock%20voltages%20Dalziel.pdf

Dalziel went on to publish considerable follow-on work but the 1961 paper is one of his seminal works on the topic. A 1972 IEEE Spectrum paper discusses perception currents in great detail.

https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/5218692

Good luck with your quest.

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#5
In reply to #4

Re: Electric Shock

12/10/2020 1:18 PM

A terrible piece of history: The Nazis conducted experiments on Jewish prisoners to determine the effect of electrical current on humans, through the entire range from mild tingle, to heart fibrillation, to death. I recall that the current to cause heart fibrillation and death are astonishingly low - less than 100ma. The standard GFI trip setting of 5ma is that low for good reason.

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#11
In reply to #5

Re: Electric Shock

12/11/2020 2:40 AM

That research has at least proved valuable, then, in a weird way.

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#6
In reply to #4

Re: Electric Shock

12/10/2020 1:40 PM

I once had a simple test light on the bench for quickly testing fuses.

It was a 10 watt/120vac clear bulb,in series with the hot side of 120vac receptacle.

I could put a lead in each hand and squeeze,and vary the brightness of the bulb.

I would only feel a tingle when very loosely held,and the tingle was only in the fingers at the point of contact.

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#15
In reply to #6

Re: Electric Shock

12/11/2020 11:35 AM

That sounds kind of risky. The shock in the OP's post only involved one finger. You could get up to 80ma hand-to-hand through the heart.

We would miss your posts...

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#16
In reply to #15

Re: Electric Shock

12/11/2020 1:57 PM

I did it frequently for years,no ill effects.I can't explain it.

Ignorance is bliss I suppose.

Someone said that was because I had a insulated brain and a grounded arse.

Now spark plugs,and electric fences are a different matter.

My uncle would grab me by the arm when I was a little kid,I was barefooted,and he had on rubber boots.

He would grab an electric fence wire and watch me jump.

It did not bother him, because I was at the end of the line.

I finally figured out that I could jump up on him to stop the shock.

Perhaps my body built up a resistance to shock at an early age.Who knows?

However,lights tend to get a little brighter when I enter a room(according to my wife).

Only the LED ones though...

Anyway,I am much older now,and still kicking,as of today.

(We are never promised tomorrow)

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#18
In reply to #16

Re: Electric Shock

12/11/2020 7:35 PM

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#19
In reply to #18

Re: Electric Shock

12/14/2020 7:50 AM

????? not available?????

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#7

Re: Electric Shock

12/10/2020 1:43 PM

Yes.People have been tortured with 12volt batteries placed at certain points on the body.

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#8
In reply to #7

Re: Electric Shock

12/10/2020 11:00 PM

It's not the volts that get ya, it's the amps....I've been zapped many times, one of the harshest was on a flat roof that was flooded, and a packaged A/C unit was sitting in the middle of it...well I waded in about ankle deep water over to the unit just to check it and put my hand on the cabinet and got the shock of a lifetime, it was so intense my senses were numbed out for a while and I had a metallic taste in my mouth...I've worked with live wires before on many occasions, you just need to be methodical and careful, and take precautions...The worst shocks I've had as far as painful, were from an ignition coil troubleshooting ignition systems, the same as tasers...neon signs use a high voltage transformer as well, not safe to even get close to while energized....

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#9
In reply to #8

Re: Electric Shock

12/10/2020 11:44 PM

Magneto ignition on an old Briggs & Stratton lawn mower engine WILL get your attention. Back in the day, the "kill switch" was a little "tongue depressor" of steel that shorted the spark to ground. Carelessly get your finger between the shorting bar and the spark plug and whamm-O !

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#14
In reply to #8

Re: Electric Shock

12/11/2020 7:49 AM

One of my bad electric shocks was back in the 60's pioneering the sales of the sensitive current balance type earth leakage circuit breakers (ELCB), when during a sales demo to engineers of the local authority (...the idea was to get ELCB's specified as a requirement for use in council houses)....I had designed a primitive kit to plug in a local socked and with a variable resistor to limit the current to 15-30mA, then to 'earth' the breaker to show it worked....and since the whole point was to provide protection against death from electric shock, someone asked me to touch the live terminal to prove it....so in all innocence (....mainly ignorance...) I did ...POW!....OUCH!

...I guess it worked, otherwise I would not be telling this story 55 years later.

...not that it generated many immediate sales. Although successfully specified for new houses, the wholesale retrospective use was delayed due to numerous call-outs, not due to direct 'faults', but largely traced back to poor quality insulation in old council houses.

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#10

Re: Electric Shock

12/11/2020 12:13 AM

Also, from experience, a small conductive "splinter" through the skin will give low voltage an easy in.

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#12

Re: Electric Shock

12/11/2020 5:02 AM

<...possible?...>

It is commonplace in the domestic domain, in the absence of a voltmeter instrument and not recommended to do so, to touch small portable battery terminals at up to 9VDC with the tip of the tongue to "see if they are still good". This constitutes a mild electric shock.

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#13
In reply to #12

Re: Electric Shock

12/11/2020 7:20 AM

That tongue test can be a very powerful teacher.

I remember friend of mind telling about a telephone installer,back in the analog days that would test the wires with his tongue.

The normal dial tone is around 53 volts,the talking battery voltage is 48,but the ringing voltage is 96 volts,pulsating DC.

He tongue-tested the line when it just happened to be receiving a call.

The ringing voltage nearly knocked him off of the pole.

From then on,he carried his meter with him.

Lesson learned:"What you don't know can hurt you."

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#17

Re: Electric Shock

12/11/2020 5:13 PM

I have been able to feel 24VAc, but it does take moisture and surface area to lower the skin resistance to where it is noticeable. I could not feel 24VDC under the same conditions.

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#20

Re: Electric Shock

12/16/2020 3:49 AM

The use of fingers to detect 40VDC is an experience neither recommended nor to be repeated...

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#21

Re: Electric Shock

12/16/2020 3:53 AM

Once upon a time, in a galaxy far, far away, there was a 12VDC circuit lashed-up with a 0.5H smoothing choke. Disconnecting the two uninsulated crocodile/alligator clips making a temporary link in the circuit was a learning exercise not likely to be repeated!

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#22
In reply to #21

Re: Electric Shock

12/16/2020 10:57 AM

Something about your account might lead me to believe you may have first hand knowledge . . . .

Ouch.

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