Previous in Forum: WRC 107   Next in Forum: Elastic Elements for Damping
Close
Close
Close
29 comments
Rate Comments: Nested
Guru
Engineering Fields - Engineering Physics - New Member

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: MSP, MN
Posts: 728
Good Answers: 8

Virtual Hinge Design

05/14/2021 1:57 PM

I have a short pickup bed with a lid:

I can't put any hinge at the edge of the lid, and the only surface available to mount any mechanism is 5" forward of the edge. Is there some linkage that will allow the lid to open as shown without the lid hitting the bed?

Register to Reply
Pathfinder Tags: hinge linkage
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive votes to make them "good answers".

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: by the beach in Florida
Posts: 33392
Good Answers: 1817
#1

Re: virtual hinge design

05/14/2021 2:10 PM
__________________
All living things seek to control their own destiny....this is the purpose of life
Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Guru
Engineering Fields - Engineering Physics - New Member

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: MSP, MN
Posts: 728
Good Answers: 8
#2
In reply to #1

Re: virtual hinge design

05/14/2021 2:14 PM

Thanks, SE, but the lid and actuator are already in place and the hinging mechanism must match.

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: by the beach in Florida
Posts: 33392
Good Answers: 1817
#3
In reply to #2

Re: virtual hinge design

05/14/2021 3:23 PM

not to scale...

__________________
All living things seek to control their own destiny....this is the purpose of life
Register to Reply
2
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: by the beach in Florida
Posts: 33392
Good Answers: 1817
#4
In reply to #3

Re: virtual hinge design

05/14/2021 10:37 PM

rev #1 ....not to scale

__________________
All living things seek to control their own destiny....this is the purpose of life
Register to Reply Good Answer (Score 2)
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: by the beach in Florida
Posts: 33392
Good Answers: 1817
#6
In reply to #4

Re: virtual hinge design

05/15/2021 2:07 PM

rev#3 incl 15° angle lift tonneau ex....

__________________
All living things seek to control their own destiny....this is the purpose of life
Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
2
Guru

Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 1367
Good Answers: 105
#5

Re: Virtual Hinge Design

05/15/2021 1:54 PM

How about guide rails at the radius equal to the offset from your virtual hinge location, with followers either side, like garage door tracks?

It will eat up space on either side. You’ll need a two wheel follower on either side, maybe on 4” centers. That will limit the upper opening arc, but your gas spring probably doesn’t allow 90 degree opening anyway.

Register to Reply Good Answer (Score 2)
Guru
Engineering Fields - Engineering Physics - New Member

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: MSP, MN
Posts: 728
Good Answers: 8
#8
In reply to #5

Re: Virtual Hinge Design

05/15/2021 4:15 PM

Yes, I think something like that is used for big airplane flaps. You can see it when they are extended.

Register to Reply
Guru
Engineering Fields - Engineering Physics - New Member

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: MSP, MN
Posts: 728
Good Answers: 8
#7

Re: Virtual Hinge Design

05/15/2021 4:12 PM

Very interesting, SE. So L1 causes the rear lip to clear the bed, then the lid rises to full extension something like this:

And it would be stable as the links are fully extended and in tension by the actuator. This is important as the lid gets buffeted by wind. Would need some way to ensure the linkages fold the correct way when closing...maybe springs or elastic bands, wouldn't take much force.

Register to Reply
2
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: by the beach in Florida
Posts: 33392
Good Answers: 1817
#9
In reply to #7

Re: Virtual Hinge Design

05/15/2021 4:59 PM

Yes, I think some spring tension could help offset some of the weight of the cover...raising the lightest end first raises the lid above the bed frame and L1 is slightly radiused to pull the cover away from the cab as it lifts, to keep the cover from hitting the cab....

I would go with 1.5" X 3/16" flat SS for the supports depending on weight and other appropriate hardware, but this all depends on design specifics and preferences...

__________________
All living things seek to control their own destiny....this is the purpose of life
Register to Reply Good Answer (Score 2)
Guru
Engineering Fields - Nuclear Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Louisville, OH
Posts: 1925
Good Answers: 36
#10

Re: Virtual Hinge Design

05/15/2021 8:51 PM

After that exchange with SE, I'm not sure I should comment! I'm not too familiar with this new-fangled stuff! Would an old-fashioned strap hinge work? Paint it any matching or contrasting color you want. Maybe a piano hinge, but I'm not sure how to mount it.

__________________
Lehman57
Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: by the beach in Florida
Posts: 33392
Good Answers: 1817
#11
In reply to #10

Re: Virtual Hinge Design

05/16/2021 2:12 AM

You can never have too many possibilities... when you said strap hinge I thought of a strip of material, specifically Braeön, that might be used in some way...

__________________
All living things seek to control their own destiny....this is the purpose of life
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: by the beach in Florida
Posts: 33392
Good Answers: 1817
#12
In reply to #11

Re: Virtual Hinge Design

05/16/2021 2:32 AM

Ooops now called Forj...

Yes I just bought some....$20 for 20'...

__________________
All living things seek to control their own destiny....this is the purpose of life
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Hemel Hempstead, UK
Posts: 5826
Good Answers: 322
#13
In reply to #12

Re: Virtual Hinge Design

05/16/2021 8:03 AM

That sounds as though someone has just formed polymorph plastic around some strong ribbon.

Polymorph plastic is another essential for every tool shed.

__________________
If you spend all your time looking for people and things to complain about: trust me, you will find plenty to complain about.
Register to Reply
4
Guru

Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Land of Shining Waters
Posts: 916
Good Answers: 35
#14

Re: Virtual Hinge Design

05/16/2021 10:34 AM

Shown open and closed position. Virtue of simplicity if load/size of lid would permit it.

__________________
It is easier to let the cat out of the bag than to put the cat back in the bag.
Register to Reply Good Answer (Score 4)
Guru
Engineering Fields - Engineering Physics - New Member

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: MSP, MN
Posts: 728
Good Answers: 8
#15

Re: Virtual Hinge Design

05/16/2021 11:31 AM

Here's what we have:

There are 2 actuators. The lid is 20" x 44", aluminum, weights maybe 10#. The actuators are overkill (each can lift over 100#) but I did it to keep the lid from flapping in the wind. In this pic the lid is hinged at the rear, but that has been difficult to maintain; not much structure to work with. And I'm always looking for new ideas to have folks scratching their heads.

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: by the beach in Florida
Posts: 33392
Good Answers: 1817
#18
In reply to #15

Re: Virtual Hinge Design

05/16/2021 12:40 PM

OK ....well that is a horse of a different color....I would use the hinges at the back, only make them slide off hinges...or lift off hinges...

...I would lose the actuators all together, and secure the hood with inset latches, or some type of hood pins...

__________________
All living things seek to control their own destiny....this is the purpose of life
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: by the beach in Florida
Posts: 33392
Good Answers: 1817
#19
In reply to #15

Re: Virtual Hinge Design

05/16/2021 1:51 PM

Do you drive around with this open?

__________________
All living things seek to control their own destiny....this is the purpose of life
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: by the beach in Florida
Posts: 33392
Good Answers: 1817
#20
In reply to #19

Re: Virtual Hinge Design

05/16/2021 2:32 PM

I vaguely remember you had a hot rod that had this rear mounted radiator, if I am remembering correctly, is this it? If so, do you have a website that I can study the design a little closer? If this requires a pop up scoop to help cool the engine, then a lot more thought needs to go into the design...

Maybe I'm thinking of a Kindig-it design where they had a trunk mounted radiator design....

__________________
All living things seek to control their own destiny....this is the purpose of life
Register to Reply
Guru
Engineering Fields - Engineering Physics - New Member

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: MSP, MN
Posts: 728
Good Answers: 8
#22
In reply to #20

Re: Virtual Hinge Design

05/16/2021 5:57 PM

Good memory! Here's some pics: https://goo.gl/photos/eb3z5gHPFqEL2d3E7

...and here's a thread where I keep track of work: http://www.tbucketeer.com/threads/big-redo-of-the-old-bucket.13677/

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: by the beach in Florida
Posts: 33392
Good Answers: 1817
#23
In reply to #22

Re: Virtual Hinge Design

05/16/2021 7:08 PM

There we go....sweet ride

Space is clearly at a premium here...

I'm thinking you get a lot of vibration in a violent sort of way....is the back steel or fiberglass? Is there a rubber gasket involved in any way with the trunk cover?

__________________
All living things seek to control their own destiny....this is the purpose of life
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: by the beach in Florida
Posts: 33392
Good Answers: 1817
#24
In reply to #23

Re: Virtual Hinge Design

05/17/2021 1:05 AM

I think I would go with a thick gasket, like on a door, and 4 hood pins, and just make it a removable panel...

__________________
All living things seek to control their own destiny....this is the purpose of life
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: by the beach in Florida
Posts: 33392
Good Answers: 1817
#25
In reply to #24

Re: Virtual Hinge Design

05/17/2021 2:35 AM

I guess you could cut the deck and have it hinged and just lift the back half or three quarters, from the back and have some proper hinges to support the lid...

__________________
All living things seek to control their own destiny....this is the purpose of life
Register to Reply
Guru
Engineering Fields - Engineering Physics - New Member

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: MSP, MN
Posts: 728
Good Answers: 8
#28
In reply to #23

Re: Virtual Hinge Design

05/18/2021 8:55 AM

"I'm thinking you get a lot of vibration in a violent sort of way....is the back steel or fiberglass? Is there a rubber gasket involved in any way with the trunk cover?"

The body is fiberglass, but we integrated a 1/2" square steel tube around the upper edge of the bed. There is a rubber gasket just as you described glued to the lid. Not much vibration unless I'm on a rough road. With the lid down and the actuators holding it tight, things are pretty secure.

Register to Reply
Guru
Engineering Fields - Engineering Physics - New Member

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: MSP, MN
Posts: 728
Good Answers: 8
#21
In reply to #19

Re: Virtual Hinge Design

05/16/2021 5:53 PM

Oh, no, at least not on purpose!

Register to Reply
Guru
Hobbies - CNC - New Member Hobbies - DIY Welding - New Member Engineering Fields - Electromechanical Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 23647
Good Answers: 420
#16

Re: Virtual Hinge Design

05/16/2021 11:42 AM

That is a difficult one we run into quite a bit, because to make it work, one needs to do a number of iterations with a motion curve to make it work. What is the cover made of, where you can make that bend at a shallower angle.

I think SE had probably the best solution.

__________________
“ When people get what they want, they are often surprised when they get what they deserve " - James Wood
Register to Reply
Guru
Engineering Fields - Engineering Physics - New Member

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: MSP, MN
Posts: 728
Good Answers: 8
#17

Re: Virtual Hinge Design

05/16/2021 11:45 AM

How about using steel cables instead of linkages?

The short rear cable brings up the lid to clear the lip, then the long front cable sets the degree of opening. Would need to carefully adjust actuator to fully stretch cables without breaking anything, and maybe incorporate springs somewhere to optimize tensions.

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Hemel Hempstead, UK
Posts: 5826
Good Answers: 322
#26

Re: Virtual Hinge Design

05/17/2021 7:09 AM

Would a waterproof canvass with an elasticated seam around the edge be infra dig?

__________________
If you spend all your time looking for people and things to complain about: trust me, you will find plenty to complain about.
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: by the beach in Florida
Posts: 33392
Good Answers: 1817
#27
In reply to #26

Re: Virtual Hinge Design

05/17/2021 2:59 PM

You wanna' put a shower cap on a road crushing street rod?

I don't know about that....

__________________
All living things seek to control their own destiny....this is the purpose of life
Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: by the beach in Florida
Posts: 33392
Good Answers: 1817
#29

Re: Virtual Hinge Design

05/18/2021 7:03 PM

__________________
All living things seek to control their own destiny....this is the purpose of life
Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Register to Reply 29 comments

Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive votes to make them "good answers".

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

canadianslidewinder (1); Lehman57 (1); phoenix911 (1); Randall (2); rwilliams (1); SolarEagle (15); SSCpal (8)

Previous in Forum: WRC 107   Next in Forum: Elastic Elements for Damping

Advertisement