Previous in Forum: Problems with a Briggs & Stratton Carburetor   Next in Forum: Direct weld forged steel socket (reducer) to socket welding flange
Close
Close
Close
14 comments
Participant

Join Date: Jan 2022
Posts: 1

Continuously Cycling Double Cylinder Control

01/05/2022 2:47 PM

Hello

I am testing a mockup at my job and I need to repeatedly open and close a steel door many many times (like 10,000x). I have air close to this mockup so I'm thinking of using a double acting pneumatic cylinder with a 5/2 valve to pull the door back and forth. I'm really more of a metals and welding than controls guy, so I'm not sure how exactly to set up the circuit so that it will cycle door open and door close continuously without someone pressing a button. I don't really want to go through the trouble of setting up an Arduino or something to control something so basic. Are there continuously cycling relays or switches that I could use to control the solenoids on the 5/2 valve? If anyone has any tips or basic setups for something like this I would really appreciate any tips you might have!

Register to Reply
Pathfinder Tags: controls pneumatics
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

Comments rated to be Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive ratings to make them "good answers".

Comments rated to be "almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, rate them!
Guru
Engineering Fields - Electrical Engineering - Been there, done that. Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Long Island NY
Posts: 15178
Good Answers: 937
#1

Re: Continuously Cycling Double Cylinder Control

01/05/2022 3:35 PM

There are such relays you could use (time delay and basic latch) but I think you may want to use an intelligent controller like an Arduino or PLC when one considers the variety of things that can go wrong along with added useful data and control. For instance; did the door open and close fully each time, cycle count, STOP at selected cycle count, time to open, time to close, safety stops, delay time to motion, failure to complete motion time limit.

__________________
"Don't disturb my circles." translation of Archimedes last words
Register to Reply
2
Guru

Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: About 4000 miles from the center of the earth (+/-100 mi)
Posts: 9133
Good Answers: 1038
#2

Re: Continuously Cycling Double Cylinder Control

01/05/2022 4:13 PM

Why not a motor and crank mechanism?

Register to Reply Good Answer (Score 2)
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Old New Member

Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: South east U.K.
Posts: 3537
Good Answers: 92
#7
In reply to #2

Re: Continuously Cycling Double Cylinder Control

01/06/2022 11:10 AM

That was my 1st thought. I've had to make in the past a mechanism to operate a hinged joint 10,000 times for BS approval. I used a crank & wheel and just let it run for the appropriate time.

__________________
I didn't have a really important life, but at least it's been funny (Lemmy Kilminster 1945-2015)
Register to Reply
2
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: at the beach in Florida
Posts: 31265
Good Answers: 1733
#3

Re: Continuously Cycling Double Cylinder Control

01/05/2022 6:18 PM

I think it depends greatly on what you are testing about the door, I mean is it the hinges, the hardware, the door itself, the frame, or is the door opening to facilitate another action, the point of the test will have an influence on the type of mechanism used...Is the opening forceful or gentle, completely open, barely open, is the door to be slammed, is speed of opening and speed of closing important...

https://www.ul.com/services/door-hardware-testing

https://yorkpmh.com/resources/hydraulic-vs-pneumatic-vs-electric-actuators/

__________________
Break a sweat everyday doing something you enjoy
Register to Reply Good Answer (Score 2)
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: at the beach in Florida
Posts: 31265
Good Answers: 1733
#4
In reply to #3

Re: Continuously Cycling Double Cylinder Control

01/06/2022 12:49 AM
__________________
Break a sweat everyday doing something you enjoy
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: at the beach in Florida
Posts: 31265
Good Answers: 1733
#6
In reply to #4

Re: Continuously Cycling Double Cylinder Control

01/06/2022 7:05 AM
__________________
Break a sweat everyday doing something you enjoy
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: North West England
Posts: 1170
Good Answers: 153
#5

Re: Continuously Cycling Double Cylinder Control

01/06/2022 5:54 AM

All you need is an on/off switch and a timer with a "symmetrical recycling" function. Google Broyce Controls™ type LMMT to see what you need but most industrial timer manufacturers will make a similar product. Typical price is £25/€30/$35. The Broyce has a universal voltage input 12-230volt AC/DC but if you can't get one like that go for a timer with the same voltage as you solenoid valve coils. The top dial switch on this timer selects the function which you will set to RF. The middle dial switch sets the timing range. The lower dial is a pot resistor that allows you to fine tune your timer setting. Wiring: Connect your power supply live to one side of the on/off switch. The other side of the on/off switch to timer terminals A1 and 15. Timer terminal 16 to the live of one of the 5/2 valve solenoid coils. Time terminal 18 to the live of the other 5/2 solenoid coil. Timer terminal B1 and the neutrals of the two solenoid coils to your power supply neutral. I would also suggest a mechanical counter that increments each time the door opens and hits the counter button/lever.

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: May 2018
Location: Under the spreading Bunya Trees, South Burnett, Queensland, Australia
Posts: 634
Good Answers: 59
#8

Re: Continuously Cycling Double Cylinder Control

01/07/2022 1:51 AM

Set up the air cylinder and mount two air change over switches one in open position and one in closed position. Connect the air lines so when the door is open the air relay supplies air to the close side of the cylinder and the opposite for the close cylinder.

A speed regulating valve will be needed on the open and close connections to the cylinder. Festo have the hardware to do the task as I set up a similar splitter to take a sample from a material stream. If you go to the Festo site or any other pneumatic control supplier you will find all the equipment you need.

Check this out https://www.festo.com/net/supportportal/files/10102/sa231742.

__________________
Hare today, goon tomorrow!
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: at the beach in Florida
Posts: 31265
Good Answers: 1733
#9
In reply to #8

Re: Continuously Cycling Double Cylinder Control

01/07/2022 3:33 AM
__________________
Break a sweat everyday doing something you enjoy
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: at the beach in Florida
Posts: 31265
Good Answers: 1733
#10

Re: Continuously Cycling Double Cylinder Control

01/08/2022 7:11 AM

__________________
Break a sweat everyday doing something you enjoy
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: at the beach in Florida
Posts: 31265
Good Answers: 1733
#11
In reply to #10

Re: Continuously Cycling Double Cylinder Control

01/08/2022 7:34 AM

__________________
Break a sweat everyday doing something you enjoy
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: at the beach in Florida
Posts: 31265
Good Answers: 1733
#12
In reply to #11

Re: Continuously Cycling Double Cylinder Control

01/08/2022 8:58 AM

__________________
Break a sweat everyday doing something you enjoy
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: North West England
Posts: 1170
Good Answers: 153
#13

Re: Continuously Cycling Double Cylinder Control

01/09/2022 8:10 AM

As you are testing a steel door there is the possibility that if it hits someone while in motion it could cause serious injury. The best option is to conduct your tests inside a cage with interlocked access so that the door is stopped when anyone opens the cage access and a key operated reset with the key held by a responsible person.

A 5/3 valve with a "closed center" position that halts motion immediately when an Emergency Stop is activated would be my preferred option. If you use a 5/3 open center valve the door can move when the valve is in the center off position and it's inertia could still cause injury. A 5/2 will push the door to one end position when power is removed which could cause someone to be trapped between the door and jamb. Forcing the door to the open position on loss of power is better but still not completely safe.

In an earlier post I suggested using a mark space timer to control the cylinder. You could use a relay set on at one end by a N/O contact on one limit switch and latched on with a N/O relay contact then tripped off at the other end by a N/C contact on a second limit switch. This has the advantage of not having to match the mark space ratio with the cylinder speed setting but limits the open and closed positions to where the limits are mounted. It also introduces two extra potential failure points which could be significant in such a long test. Pneumatic valves are prone to sticking and a driving cylinder coupled with door inertia into a fixed limit switch would be enough to smash it off it's mountings.

Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: at the beach in Florida
Posts: 31265
Good Answers: 1733
#14
In reply to #13

Re: Continuously Cycling Double Cylinder Control

01/09/2022 5:51 PM
__________________
Break a sweat everyday doing something you enjoy
Register to Reply
Register to Reply 14 comments
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

Comments rated to be Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive ratings to make them "good answers".

Comments rated to be "almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, rate them!
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

jhhassociates (2); Nigh (1); redfred (1); Rixter (1); SolarEagle (8); Stef (1)

Previous in Forum: Problems with a Briggs & Stratton Carburetor   Next in Forum: Direct weld forged steel socket (reducer) to socket welding flange

Advertisement