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Anonymous Poster #1

Fires in EVs

03/28/2022 1:14 AM

What are the key reasons for a Lithium-ion Battery fire in EV's

> Thermal Runaway during discharging

> Thermal runaway during charging

> Thermal runaway at parking

> Cell Level Short circuit

> cell damage

> cell overvoltage / undervoltage

What are the latest developments for this protection.

any good lecture on this is available?

Google search has given me a mild result.

If some of you here has some good experience in this please do share.

In India, Summer has started and in last one week there were 8 EV fire incident , which has taken 2 lives.

any good level of discussion on this is appreciated

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#1

Re: Fires in EV Vehicle

03/28/2022 1:23 AM

What causes a lithium battery to catch fire?

Battery packs consist of thousands of cells packed together. During a thermal runaway, the heat generated by a failed cell can move to the next cell, causing it to become thermally unstable as well. This chain reaction can cause the entire pack to be destroyed within a few short seconds.

Nice blog that covers this topic ...

https://www.ionenergy.co/resources/blogs/battery-safety/

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#3
In reply to #1

Re: Fires in EV Vehicle

03/28/2022 7:50 AM

I'm thinking a tank of gasoline is much safer...

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#5
In reply to #3

Re: Fires in EV Vehicle

03/28/2022 1:44 PM

Safety of course is a matter of perspective depending on how one defines safety, but I guess the only thing I can offer is that a tank of gasoline is better understood.

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#2

Re: Fires in EVs

03/28/2022 7:08 AM

What an excellent topic for a Google search.

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Anonymous Poster #2
#18
In reply to #2

Re: Fires in EVs

04/07/2022 2:13 AM

Helpful!

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#19
In reply to #18

Re: Fires in EVs

04/07/2022 11:25 AM

Is the cognitive dissonance deafening?

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#4

Re: Fires in EVs

03/28/2022 1:33 PM

People focus on EV fires, making it appear common, but how many gasoline car fires and explosions happen every day? The answer is that we rarely hear because it rarely gets reported (beyond the traffic reports when it causes a problem). A recent US govt report concluded that gasoline fires in cars are roughly 100x more common than EV fires, but that doesn’t make the news.

https://www.autoinsuranceez.com/gas-vs-electric-car-fires/

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#6
In reply to #4

Re: Fires in EVs

03/28/2022 4:01 PM

I'm pretty sure that my car, with the battery shut off, is not going to burst into flames while parked in the garage and burn the house down while my family is sleeping....Electric car? not so much....

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#8
In reply to #6

Re: Fires in EVs

03/28/2022 11:10 PM

There have been a number of recalls for ICE-powered vehicles in the last couple of decades in which the recall notice warned the owner not to park the recalled vehicle in a garage attached to a house because there was a significant risk of the defective part starting a fire even when the car was shut down.

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#11
In reply to #8

Re: Fires in EVs

03/29/2022 2:08 AM

That's why you have a battery disconnect...no chance of short to start a fire...not really possible in an EV which is probably on the charger all the time it's parked...

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#15
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Re: Fires in EVs

03/30/2022 2:08 PM

Don't really care about the car as much as I do my family....the vehicle catching fire in traffic or along the road should not hurt anybody, and insurance should cover the damage....It's the starting on fire while parked, that's a concern for me...It's a sneak attack that can't be anticipated...

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#7

Re: Fires in EVs

03/28/2022 5:33 PM

Hey now, what's a tiny bit of local warming if you are spared the global one? You can't have it all now, can you?

Now that unprovoked local meltdown ehm.. warming seems to be happening only on individual compromised cells. The rest, that just follow a chain reaction are completely innocent and we shouldn't be pointing fingers.

Compromising cells now is done -unless from a manufacturing flaw which is rare- only if you ask a cell to go over its individual margin of safety one time more than you should. Too fast charging or discharging for the conditions or a charger-inverter circuit glitch, mechanical damage from shocking or vibration and shell deformation etc. Now where can this happen in a car is beyond me.

Now to get a bit serious, a cell by cell 24/7 parameter and health monitoring can be implemented and the posibility to isolate any single suspect cell get integrated in the system, plus a bit of local cooling and/or fire extinguishing if something gets out of hand is feasible technically. I also can't buy this compromice cannot be predicted on time by cell behavior history (capacity, esr, temps and unexpected changes on their charts.) It's of course a matter of priorities of the industry. S.M.

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#9

Re: Fires in EVs

03/28/2022 11:26 PM

If the EV is Autonomous, it could sense an overheating condition and drive itself to the fire station.

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#10
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Re: Fires in EVs

03/29/2022 12:00 AM

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#12
In reply to #9

Re: Fires in EVs

03/30/2022 5:08 AM

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#13
In reply to #9

Re: Fires in EVs

03/30/2022 7:29 AM

...or towards a hostile military target, perhaps.

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#14
In reply to #13

Re: Fires in EVs

03/30/2022 1:02 PM

. . . like at hostile targets in the Ukraine using stand-off deployment methods.

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Anonymous Poster #1
#16

Re: Fires in EVs

04/04/2022 12:42 AM

https://auto.economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/two-wheelers/scooters-mopeds/heat-wave-on-ev-fires-raging-industry-in-a-huddle-shaken-not-stirred/90631751

https://www.deccanherald.com/business/what-s-causing-fire-in-electric-vehicles-1097381.html

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#17
In reply to #16

Re: Fires in EVs

04/05/2022 12:41 AM

..."There have been at least thirty deaths involving incidents of Tesla car fires.[74 "...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plug-in_electric_vehicle_fire_incidents

How many must die before it's regarded as a serious problem?

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#20

Re: Fires in EVs

04/07/2022 3:48 PM

If you would monitor the internal resistance and temperature of the battery pack, or preferably the batteries individually, then you could increase cooling on demand when needed...an isolation method for failing batteries would reduce the incidence of failure by thermal runaway even further...when a cell starts to overheat repeatedly or the internal resistance hits a certain point, it could be isolated from the pack, thus providing a safer and longer life for the pack, as well as providing for individual failed cell replacement....

..."The aged cells shown more probabilities of thermal runaway due to the increase of the internal resistance. However, it is possible to reduce the difference by increasing the cooling flow from 3 g/s to 50 g/s. "...

"Thermal runaway evaluation and thermal performance enhancement of a lithium-ion battery coupling cooling system and battery sub-models"

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1359431121013089#!

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