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Hydrogen Fuel Cell Locomotive

11/17/2022 12:28 PM

..."NEW YORK — Canadian Pacific’s experimental hydrogen-powered locomotive made its maiden revenue run last month in Calgary, Alberta, taking the first step in determining whether the technology could one day replace diesel-electric locomotives."...

https://www.trains.com/trn/news-reviews/news-wire/canadian-pacifics-hydrogen-powered-locomotive-makes-first-revenue-run/

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#1

Re: Hydrogen Fuel Cell Locomotive

11/17/2022 12:34 PM
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#3
In reply to #1

Re: Hydrogen Fuel Cell Locomotive

11/18/2022 4:37 PM

Artemis will get a few more miles out of its hydrogen than the train...

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#2

Re: Hydrogen Fuel Cell Locomotive

11/18/2022 11:48 AM

This will be interesting to watch.

There seems to be many, many logistical issues to overcome in order to make this a standard (as opposed to the Diesel engine and generator now the well established standard).

The investments made by CN to this experiment do indicate a real commitment to reducing emissions.

The EMD SD40 locomotive is rated at 3,000 hp (2,200 kW). This is on the low side of average power for the tens of thousands of Diesel engine locomotives on the rails today. It’s going to require a lot of of H2 to make this viable.

One current producer of pink H2 that I checked produces on the order of kg per day. Gotta step it up.

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#4
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Re: Hydrogen Fuel Cell Locomotive

11/19/2022 12:21 AM

Well it seems to me this is a natural, the train company owns a lot of the land along the rail lines, and the means to transport anything along the rail route, so they can deploy all the materials they need to build the infrastructure at cost and build out the fueling points along the routes at strategic locations....seems a lot easier than for say trucking for example, or sea transport, although for sea transport the hydrogen source may come directly from the sea, and then fueling really wouldn't be a problem....

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#5
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Re: Hydrogen Fuel Cell Locomotive

11/19/2022 9:40 AM

Many different locomotion schemes have been tried over the two odd hundred years of train evolution.

Wood fired steam, coal fired, then oil fired. Turbines, both steam and gas were tried. Then electric traction motors, with turbines spinning generators, gas and Diesel engines also used as prime movers - remote energy sources too, transferred by (usually) overhead lines.

This is an experiment. Can it work? Sure, probably, yeah... every iteration so far has had drawbacks and advantages; if the good overcame the bad then it was opted into by willing participants.

An inconvenient truth here is, government regulation says (to rail operations) “Change your methods, reduce emissions or you are out of business.”. Before everyone busts my hump, I say this mostly for the shock value knowing full well it is an exaggeration, it is a broad brush, technology likely exists that will likely be adaptable to this end. Point here is, in the advantage/disadvantage weight distribution, this disadvantage is pretty heavy. Experience tells me a carrot as incentive will move the cart along better than beating your donkey’s ass with a stick.

Time will tell.

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#6
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Re: Hydrogen Fuel Cell Locomotive

11/19/2022 1:54 PM

Well it seems to me that sooner or later diesel fuel will become too expensive, or indeed run out altogether from traditional sources, so will we wait to the last minute? or make the choice to adapt now and work out the bugs so rail travel remains relevant?

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#7
In reply to #5

Re: Hydrogen Fuel Cell Locomotive

11/19/2022 5:59 PM

You are absolutely right but it is not much of an exaggeration, if at all.

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#8
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Re: Hydrogen Fuel Cell Locomotive

11/19/2022 7:00 PM

..."A single 1,000 megawatt nuclear reactor could produce more than 150,000 tonnes of hydrogen each year.

Ten nuclear reactors could provide about 1.5 million tonnes annually or 15% of current hydrogen produced in the United States."...

150,000 tonnes of hydrogen = 330,693,393 lbs

https://www.energy.gov/ne/articles/could-hydrogen-open-new-markets-nuclear

..."An FCEV can drive about 28 miles (45 km) on 1 lb (0.45 kg) of hydrogen. The cost per mile of running hydrogen cars is therefore currently almost twice as high as that of battery-powered vehicles charged at home."Dec 5, 2019

330,693,393 lbs times 28 miles = 9,259,415,004 miles....miles driven per year by around 650,000 people...

"On average, Americans drive 14,263 miles per year according to the Federal Highway Administration."Sep 21, 2022

"There were a total of 275,913,237 vehicles registered in the U.S. in 2020, including 105,135,300 automobiles."

...around 26 million tons of hydrogen for all the cars.... = ~175 nuclear plants...

"As a collective, American drivers cover 3.2 trillion miles each year, enough to take nearly 5,000 trips to the moon and back".Sep 21, 2022

https://www.bmw.com/en/innovation/how-hydrogen-fuel-cell-cars-work.html#:~:text=An%20FCEV%20can%20drive%20about,powered%20vehicles%20charged%20at%20home.

Ammonia to hydrogen...

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/11/201118141718.htm

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#9
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Re: Hydrogen Fuel Cell Locomotive

11/20/2022 10:07 PM

..."There are 93 commercial nuclear reactors operating in the United States at 55 locations in 28 states. The majority of nuclear reactors are in the eastern portion of the U.S."Apr 4, 2022

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/04/04/map-of-nuclear-power-in-the-us-see-where-reactors-are-located.html

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#10
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Re: Hydrogen Fuel Cell Locomotive

11/20/2022 11:17 PM

"How large does a 1 gigawatt solar farm have to be?

A good rule of thumb is that it takes 5 acres per MW peak for a solar farm. Note that includes spacing, roads, inverters, everything. Actual farms vary from about 4 acres to 9 acres per MW.

Thus 5000 acres would be a good guess at the area needed for a 1GW solar farm."

175 times 3 = 525 times 5000 acres = 2,625,000 acres = Delaware + Rhode Island or about the size of Yellowstone Park....

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#11
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Re: Hydrogen Fuel Cell Locomotive

11/21/2022 12:12 AM
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#12
In reply to #11

Re: Hydrogen Fuel Cell Locomotive

11/21/2022 1:39 PM

These are all the other inconvenient truths.

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#13

Re: Hydrogen Fuel Cell Locomotive

11/21/2022 6:20 PM

..."What's the cost of a wind turbine in 2021? $1,300,000 USD per megawatt. The typical wind turbine is 2-3 MW in power, so most turbines cost in the $2-4 million dollar range. Operation and maintenance runs an additional $42,000-$48,000 per year according to research on wind turbine operational cost."Aug 7, 2021

"How many wind turbines do I need for 1 GW?

There are of course cost reductions from needing to install fewer turbines – today, it takes less than 100 turbines to generate 1 GW from a wind farm at sea. With a 12 MW turbine it will take only 83 turbines and with a 15 MW turbine only 66, and so on."...

So about $4 billion per gigawatt equivalent cost for intermittent wind turbines...

https://weatherguardwind.com/how-much-does-wind-turbine-cost-worth-it/#:~:text=What's%20the%20cost%20of%20a,on%20wind%20turbine%20operational%20cost.

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#14

Re: Hydrogen Fuel Cell Locomotive

11/22/2022 7:11 AM

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