Starliner Mess

Certainly there do seem to be operational problems at Boeing that need to be addressed, perhaps a management reshuffle or outside examination by a third party troubleshooter to highlight some areas that need improvement..followed up with verification of corrections implemented and effective results....these all seem like quality control issues to me...but discipline in the workforce might also be coming into play...

https://www.npr.org/2024/07/03/nx-s1-5026448/boeing-starliner-astronauts-space-station-

That is what happens when the triangle is inverted;too many chiefs at the top,self promoting based on NUMBERS,not value.

That is what happens when the triangle is inverted;too many chiefs at the top,self promoting based on NUMBERS,not value.

If a private company is that bloated, think how bloated the government is.

You seem to be stuck in a repeating time loop. You haven't visited Skinwalker Ranch have you?

The Fed's are way out of control. I haven't checked the latest jobs report but in the previous one 30% of new jobs created were federal jobs.

When they gloat about how many jobs the economy is creating it's a lie. The feds are inflating their own statistics.

So, yeah, in terms of federal bloat we are in deep sh!t.

“...in the previous one 30% of new jobs created were federal jobs.”

And about 99% of those jobs are merely listed, there is no real job to be had. This is a technique used to cook the report, giving the appearance of an effective administration.

Beam me up Scotty..No sign of intelligent life in the 21 century.

They are trying to put me aboard a Boeing Starliner.

Wait a minute...I am on the Holodeck...what a relief.Whew!What a trip.

I’m somewhat excited about the new DOGE and where the trimming is going to take place. I’m sure there’s going to be a lot of ‘conveniences’ that going to get cut which may even affect people like myself, I’m fine with that.

I suspect way too many big checks were written by the Government and cashed by Boeing before the thing flew.

I wonder what would happen if the up-front checks were smaller and the big checks didn't get written until after the spacecraft performed in space as specified in the requirements. Would that be like the old days when we could land people on the moon and return them safely?

Perhaps the spacecraft should have been made larger with one more seat. Have the contract require that for every one of the first dozen flights it is mandatory that a randomly picked board member fly in the extra seat. What would this do to quality?

A related but different gripe. It is stupid that people that find a way into the boardroom are able to get tens of millions of dollars per year based upon whatever they are able to put on this quarter's paperwork in the boardroom. If they are worth tens of millions then it would be better to give them a much smaller paycheck today and ten to twenty years of future payments based upon the companies financial success over the next ten to twenty years. ... Holy stock options Batman, that chances everything! They might be forced to abandon they way things are currently done and focus on products that work and last.

Well written and good ideas but I might add one thing if I may.

Check the connection between exec's and board members of these corporations and the Congress critters who go to Washington dirt poor and soon become millionaires.

That needs to be addressed also.

Many compensation packages are stock-based, so in theory, their pay is linked to the success of the company. Not trying to justify the size of the package, but look at what they call "professional sports" or "entertainment" these days. It's not just the boardroom.

at that time, NASA, like the Skunk Works had great leadership in place.

Yep, leadership was good but we were pretty much self-motivated because of the projects we were working on.

I was surely motivated back then but I never really imagined I could be sitting here 48 years later thinking I built stuff that is on Mars. And my name is on a microdot on both the Viking Landers along with all the others who worked on the project.

I never did things to that extend… but whe. I think back what I have done,… it seems like I was a different person. I may surprise myself, but frankly, I don’t think I could do the things I did back then.

I had I lot of drive and imagination back the, because the things I did do, didn’t exist before until I came along.

oh oh,… now ‘they’ have your name… when the aliens capture it…

Well, back then I didn't know what I didn't know and what couldn't be done. So nothing was out of reach.

I suspect you, and many others here. were the same.

Or how difficult it could be… there were also nay sayers…

I recall starting something, and getting into it, and if I thought about, I quickly put it out of my mind, where only perseverance won the day. And silencing the nay sayers.

I worked at a smaller shipyard with about 1000 employees to get a small business advantage. Most of our contracts were for the US Navy. Such as the Avenger Class Minesweepers.

on a multi-bull contract the first hull established the cost/price, the remaining hulls I believe was on the contract it was based on Cost-plus-incentive-fee contracts.

I always felt(tongue in cheek) on the 14 hull contract that there was a 15th hull worth of material somewhere in the trash or walked off from corruption or theft.

now, I said tongue in cheek, because 95% of my work orders was for R&D work. Where I’d spend 95% developing/designing jigs and fixtures and the remaining 5% for the actually machining and fabrication for the actually work order for the finished product.

at first it was upsetting, until you realize that what you’re building was for the country’s security and the safety of the men and women who man these weapons where you need to get it right.

The problem is that Boeing has been run by bean counters not engineers.

Just like the Titanic.

Boeing has been given more than a fair number of chances to fix this boondoggle. NASA should drop Boeing from space travel consideration.

Agreed.

In addition, Russia wants to drop out of the ISS in 2025.

The entire program need some serious review and gut check.

They need to put in goals and stick to them, not change as the administration/ruling party changes.

a mistake may have been made when they did not let China join into the ISS, but I do understand the reasoning.

Agree, I just hope NASA doesn’t adopt DEI hiring over competency.

They did. Under Obama. The Muslim in Space program, or whatever it's called.

DEI wasn’t established as of yet for a language. But I agree it was there. Yes, DEI was already there… and now like a lot of government agencies and companies are implementing and failing because hiring DEI trumps competency.

companies will find out that that adopting DEI as a business value is bad business as they are finding out.

I'm a biker, 60 years of it. HD is gonna pay for their lunacy. But I do admit that us old pharts that like classic bikes aren't much of a market anymore. They do have to adapt to the changing times.

Trouble is that most youngsters aren't interested in the "Freedom Of The Road" nowadays. They have Xbox and Playstation for excitement. And VR.

Classic?…. My brother had a 74 sportster…. That was when AMF had control…

here's a picture of where it’s been.

Yeah, that episode darn near ended HD. I don't know of anyone who bought an AMF bike once the word got out.

Sad what sometimes happen to companies.

i was a Gold Wing man myself… but that was a different life.

Back in the 60’s there were like 100’s snowmobile manufacturers… now there’s like 5-6 with Yamaha stop manufacturing them last year.

We had ski-daddler Snowmobiles, that were AMF, they were pretty dependable… then changed to HD.

changed colors from Grey and Blue trim to orange.

we had one of the sleds out side for over 20-30 years, about 15 years ago, my brother started and was riding around in the woods. I think it had Onan engines… if I recall

And that became extinct. I digress no further… unless provoked…

Boeing might be another victim of the DEI mindset...

https://jobs.boeing.com/diversity-and-inclusion

There's little doubt about that. Here's a 2023 proclamation.

Click Me

Just wait the shareholders will sue over this commitment to mediocrity...

A new report finds Boeing’s rockets are built with an unqualified work force

...."There are some surprising details in the report about Boeing's quality control practices at the Michoud Assembly Facility in southern Louisiana, where the Exploration Upper Stage is being manufactured. Federal observers have issued a striking number of "Corrective Action Requests" to Boeing.

"According to Safety and Mission Assurance officials at NASA and DCMA officials at Michoud, Boeing’s quality control issues are largely caused by its workforce having insufficient aerospace production experience," the report states. "The lack of a trained and qualified workforce increases the risk that the contractor will continue to manufacture parts and components that do not adhere to NASA requirements and industry standards."

This lack of a qualified workforce has resulted in significant program delays and increased costs. According to the new report, "unsatisfactory" welding operations resulted in propellant tanks that did not meet specifications, which directly led to a seven-month delay in the program.

NASA's inspector general was concerned enough with quality control to recommend that the space agency institute financial penalties for Boeing’s noncompliance. However, in a response to the report, NASA's deputy associate administrator, Catherine Koerner, declined to do so. "NASA interprets this recommendation to be directing NASA to institute penalties outside the bounds of the contract," she replied. "There are already authorities in the contract, such as award fee provisions, which enable financial ramifications for noncompliance with quality control standards."

The lack of enthusiasm by NASA to penalize Boeing for these issues will not help the perception that the agency treats some of its contractors with kid gloves."...

https://arstechnica.com/space/2024/08/a-new-report-finds-boeings-rockets-are-built-with-an-unqualified-work-force/

That's really sad to hear. I spent a lot of time at Michaud back in the 80's when the Shuttle main tank was being designed and built there. I was training and consulting with their structures people on how to use the Finite Element Modeling package integrated into ComputerVision CADDS 4 and 5. IIRC the plant was being run by Martin Marietta at the time and everybody there was at the top of their fields. They were so good that I don't ever remember hearing about any failures in their designs.

Ooops sorry. I thought this was a recent post.

This just in: Starliner to return to Earth sans crew.

They (crew) will ride the Dragon home in Feb., according to latest schedule.

This just in: Starliner to return to Earth sans crew.

https://apple.news/

Starliner is now officially toast.

I respect the honesty that NASA also has some faults in this failure. This brutal press conference should end a few careers.

Thanks much for bringing this to us.

so… now what?

Boeing is under contract to provide three mission flights to ISS. Boeing Starliner has had 9 years, $6,500,000,000 or so USD ($2 Bn USD over budget) and zero completed successful flights.

And now, today, we get this.

ISS End of Mission is now scheduled (IIRC) within four years, some have advised two years. The Russian module was scheduled to go dark sometime in 2026, but remains manned and operational, far as I can tell.

The situation with Boeing's Starliner has certainly been a bit rocky. There have been multiple delays and reliability concerns, especially after the uncrewed test flight and the various issues that have come up. While it’s frustrating to see setbacks like these, it’s also important to consider the larger picture—space missions are incredibly complex, and setbacks are part of the process, even for the best companies.

NASA has made significant investments in Boeing for the Starliner project, and while the delays and reliability issues are concerning, NASA’s decision to continue working with them is likely based on the long-term relationship and the potential the Starliner still has once all the kinks are worked out.

It’s also worth noting that NASA has multiple partners, including SpaceX, so it’s not like Boeing is the only option. As frustrating as the situation may be, the question of whether to "drop" Boeing could depend on how the company addresses the issues in the near future. There’s still time for them to get the program right.

Ultimately, the decision will likely hinge on how Boeing responds to these challenges and if they can meet NASA's expectations moving forward. Time will tell whether they can regain confidence in the program.