Irrigation Pump - Accessible to Mobility Impaired

I hadn’t considered the length of the suction hose. As installed today, this is 2” ID, overall length of suction hose is estimated at 25’, maybe 30’. This is considerably longer than it needs to be, could be reduced to 10 foot. Would this be a helpful change?

Outlet is 1-1/2” fire hose, furthest discharge location is 150’ of hose. Today the sprinkler (1-1/4” inlet impulse with a 1/2” nozzle) sprays at approx 65’ radius. Even if this is reduced to 62’ radius or so… not going to sweat it too much. It’s a yard sprinkler.

The head loss would be minimal, depending on flow, but even at 20gpm,the head loss would only be 2.6 psi per 100 ft. You could use a deep well conversion kit, which places a venturi jet in the bottom of the well, and pushes the water up, instead of suction.

This is not as efficient, but there is no limit to how deep you can go, except for the pump capacity. The venturi is sized according to the depth .The suction occurs at the bottom where the venturi jet is located. It requires two pipes going down; one for the down-flow and one for the up flow.

The real solution but more expensive, is to install a deep well submersible pump..

They are very efficient, and can provide more water per hp than shallow well pump

Use a 2 wire pump. No controllers except pressure switch. The best move I ever made after years of maintenance problems on conversion jet pumps. Mine has been in over 40 years with minimum problems. My 1 hp Myers will provide 20 gpm with a faucet wide open at the well head, and still has enough pressure to turn off the pressure switch set at 60 psi.

No worries about freezing, seals, etc. if you do it right.

I installed a 2 inch submersible pump in my 24 inch diameter deep well. I used a piece of 4 inch pvc ,drilled with 1/8 inch holes every 2inches apart the full length of 3 feet. Closed at the bottom with a closet flange, open at the top. I put 1 foot long stainless bolts in the bottom of the flange so keeps the pump off the bottom of the well, and to resist pump torque. I drilled a hole across the 4 inch and put a stainless steel bolt through the pump top eyelets where the pull rope goes to secure the pump inside of the 4 inch pvc. This also prevent pump torque from stressing the connections. There are torque arrestors available, but my way works much better.

This method prevents sucking debris and mud from the very bottom of the well. So far(40years) so good.

(It will probably start giving trouble now that I am bragging on it...you know Murphy's law....)

I should have specified the water source.

This source is an irrigation canal, not a drilled well. Surface level of the canal is about 4’ below the pump intake. Intake hose (a 2” ID spiral wound reinforced hose, intended for use as suction hose) is fitted with a foot valve. Open to the environment, the canal flow includes deciduous tree leaves, weeds, candy bar wrappers, grass clippings, tree branches, beer cans, toys, unalive wild birds, plastic shopping bags… all sorts of detritus.

The discharge pressure only changes a few psi with every 5 feet of suction lift, so still, you may never see the difference. The total friction loss even if you shorten the lines, won’t change much, so shortening the suction line will not be a big change. Putting in an elbow will make a difference, so make your moves by gently curving the hose.

The pump chart shows flow in gpm I think against discharge pressure. To throw 65 feet the pressure is probably pretty high, so you flow is low for your pipe size. You can get an idea of flow by clamp on ammeter the wire, and see how close you are to full motor load. I suspect a 2 hp motor is vast over kill for a single head.:)

Thanks for this, I assumed that to be the case.

I inherited this install, trying to make it more user friendly.

The suction hose has only the foot valve, all direction changes are made with the generous length of the hose. Unless you guys tell me otherwise, I will use the same technique on the pump reset being discussed here.

As an aside, this Simer pump: Is this manufacturer familiar to anyone? Looks and feels like an economy (cheap) brand, but it is at least ten years old, has ingested a lot of crap from the canal (including an occasional 1/2” dia rock) and today still puts off a measured +/- 80GPM. Two years ago you could purchase one of these for about $300 USD including shipping charges.

RE: 2HP being overkill.

I am planning to expand the described system by 100%, adding another 1-1/2” outlet and hoses, and building another sprinkler the same as already in place.

Using the bucket and stopwatch technique, I measure about 80GPM at the 1-1/2” hose and about 35-ish GPM with sprinkler installed. This makes me believe it should run two sprinklers at (more or less) the performance of the single sprinkler now operational.

As you say, the 2HP seems sort of a waste, but it was here when I got here, I’m trying to make best use of it.

The 2hp does not affect your day to day operation cost much, it’s just coasting. Adds life to the motor. Doubling the flow will make you glad you have the bigger motor. That is what eats up HP. At 35 gpm, you look like you are getting the spray you want at ~35 psi. Doubling the flow will reduce your spray distance some, much bigger impact relatively speaking than raising the pump.

Your pump doesn’t show 70 gpm flow, so the reduction in outlet pressure at the higher flow will reduce the flow to be within the 2 hp pump rating, it looks like.

Is there a lower spot on the property to locate the pump? If so, locate it there for better results.

To prevent debris from entering the suction side use a 5 gallon plastic bucket and lid with 1/4 inch holes drilled all around. Cover this with rabbit wire or screen wire, your choice. Screen wire will require more than one bucket to prevent suction loss, they could be plumbed in parallel. This will prevent a lot of trash from going through the pump.

Is there a lower spot on the property to locate the pump? If so, locate it there for better results.

To prevent debris from entering the suction side use a 5 gallon plastic bucket and lid with 1/2 inch holes drilled all around. Cover this with rabbit wire or screen wire, your choice. Screen wire will require more than one bucket to prevent suction loss, they could be plumbed in parallel. This will prevent a lot of trash from going through the pump.

Note: A 2 inch pipe is equivalent to 64 ea. 1/2" holes. More holes is better.

The canal is the lowest elevation of the property, and the pump sits at the edge of the canal.

Any filter of that general type becomes clogged to the point of starving the pump quickly, usually an hour or so. LOTS of leafy weeds and moss-like stuff in the water. I have inspected many manufactured and home grown intake filters around here, all have proven unsatisfactory… EXCEPT the self cleaners. These use part of the pressurized water, diverted and returned by 3/8” tube to the filter, this somehow keeps the filter screens somewhat clear of debris for a while. Far and away the best system is pump the ditch water into a cistern over a Coanda effect screen, then pump the mostly debris-free water to the distribution system. This is fairly common for the commercial irrigators, but too involved for a single residence water your yard or garden application.

How deep is the ditch water?

The ditch at full pool averages about 9’ deep and varies from about 12’ to 15’ wide. Channel is excavated into the ground (not concrete or metal), a fairly uniform ‘U’ shape. This is where suction head is at 4’.

Methinks placing a 5 gallon suitably weighted bucket in the canal with suitably sized holes would assist in reducing the amount of maintenance. Sucking that stuff through the pump undoubtedly has a negative affect on the impeller

See #11 regarding intake filters.

Reference reply#7.

A finer mesh covering on the bucket will require more Equivalent Free Surface Area. More buckets in parallel will give less restriction on the suction as well as providing cleaner water and less maintenance. Buckets are cheap, and so is plastic mesh.

The approximate surface area of a 5 gallon plastic bucket is 452 square inches.

There are 231 cubic inches in a gallon which gives about 1.9 gallons per square inch of open area if not obstructed.

Factor in the resistance(unknown at this [point) of the mesh surrounding it and the initial hole size and 80 gpm.

The best way is to use empirical results. Try one bucket, then 2,etc.

The canal is probably long enough to install multiple buckets in parallel side by side like a tee, with suction hose in the center of the tee.. Elevate the buckets slightly off the bottom. If you want to get more complicated, put the buckets on a bed of gravel and cover them with coarse gravel. Finer filtration but more buckets required.

Good Luck!

The canal water isn’t stagnant, it is moving at about 5 MPH or so. Whatever stuff is filtered from the intake water is plentiful and endless.

“several buckets in series… rows of buckets… several buckets together shaped like a tee” I am skeptical about feeling warm and fuzzy about dragging anything very elaborate (or heavy) out of the canal every hour or so of operation.

It would be easy to install a backwash system like on a swimming pool and avoid removing the buckets. A "V" shaped diverter in front upstream of the filter would help divert a lot of the debris from the filter. Run the backwash cycle on a timer according to need.

I installed a similar system for an O2 monitor in an effluent line. It was constantly getting covered in trash and moss until I installed the "v" diverter slightly upstream from the sensor. I positioned it so that the sensor was in the center area just behind the diverter. Problem solved. Trash went around the sensor. It was trouble free for years.

Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

"Several buckets in parallel", not series.

This will reduce pressure drop on the suction side and a backwash system like for swimming pools will eliminate pulling them out for cleaning.

Manually rotate the valve from normal to backwash.

Substitute the buckets for the sand filter and you have it.

I am done here. Call your next case. .

Knee saver...

Your knees will thank you....

Your legs will thank you...

Hyukyukyukyuk!

Yeah, I have a couple of those kneesaver pads, I should make one of them my constant companion.

I am very likely to proceed with this platform. I’ll build a manifold into it with a couple of 1-1/2” camlock spigots and one or two GHT spigots. Also a spot for a bucket of priming water and box for any tools used day to day, spare hose fittings and adapters… just make the whole irrigation pump station more user friendly.

Hey, thanks to everyone for the guidance. I questioned my own conclusion that this 3’ increase of suction head would have minimal impact on performance, but my unsolicited advisors were so adamant this change would be a significant problem that I decided to consult some true experts!

The armchair engineers in the neighborhood offered no critique of the microhydro alternator I plan to install in the outlet manifold on the platform to energize the pump after it is at operating pressure, so I guess ‘No Comment’ means it should be fine. FREE ENERGY - WAHOO!

Yeah working close to ground level is challenging, I keep coming up with workarounds, which is mainly paying somebody else to do it, under my close direction of course...haha

Agreed, the datasheet is a little awkward (for me, anyway) to really get anything useful from.

I appreciate your effort. If you can figure out how to get the generated curve inserted I would like to see it.

Pumped water is ambient temp, diverted from and returned to the Yellowstone River in southern Montana USA.

I'll have another go. I've only ever managed to attach photos on this site.

To add a thought - the discharge static head, and pipe friction losses, will be in feet, so more logical to use feet throughout.

Still can't attach it. If you post your email address (if that's allowed) I'll send you the XL.

I don’t have a functional email. Got a new phone recently, in changeover of accounts the existing email addresses were corrupted beyond recovery.

TBH I don’t miss sorting through all the spam and sales pitches that would flood them.

Luckily, though, my text messaging system works… otherwise I would have forgotten about blowing through some toll gate in New York City (2,018 miles [3,248 km] from my home city). Without the friendly reminder text I received I might have been fined, had my driver license suspended, insurance canceled, and vehicle impounded. All I had to do was send some guy in the Philippines my credit card number and he fixed me right up!

Can you send using the CR4 private message system?

I tried private message but could only paste the XL cells, same as above. Neither lets me enter the chart, but if you have XL (who doesn't?) you could produce a chart from above data

Thank you for this.

As rwilliams pointed out in #10, and as shown on your data rework from manufacturer, my measured 80 GPM at end of 100 ft of 1-1/2” dia open hose is off. Do these pumps sometimes overperform the info handed out by the manufacturers, or did I (more likely) slip a digit somewhere when I counted?

The pumps will often deliver more gpm if there is not enough back pressure. Many pumps will overload their motor if allowed to pump with unrestricted flow. It’s all based on how the designer put the pump and motor together.

That's right, a power vs flow curve would be useful

Take a screenshot of the chart it will be a jpeg or picture file, you should be able to paste that

Sprinkler nozzle performance is often given in PSI in their market area, I would guess.

Net zero. Head pressure loss, head pressure gain. Small frictional loss you won't even smell.