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Science, Paradigm Shifts, and Reality

12/14/2007 3:06 PM

I have noted that there are others besides me hereabouts who,

although rooted in well founded cynicism about bogus looney charlatanism,

and backed up with a degree of scientific knowledge,

nevertheless entertain the possibility that

our current scientific paradigm

is not inclusive

of everything.

Of course, not everything is known:

but there appears to be perhaps things which are unknowable,

or inexplicable, to scientific investigation.

==============

A book I read some decades ago, by Pierce,

"The CrACK IN THE Cosmic Egg" (and a sequel..)

stated (in extreme essence) that our investigations

do not so much discover the realities of how things are,

but rather, establish ordered mechanisms in the chaos that "is".

This was and is hard to "swallow", but the intervening decades

have made the concept more believable and apparent to me.

The fact that Science has been shown to become seriously "impaired"

in it's capacity to posit an observer

independent from the experiments performed

at quantum levels:

and the general and special theories of relativity:

each can be used to support the original (to me) ideas I first read in Pierce's books.

Einstein's work did not render moot the work of Newton:

but the "paradigm shift"

inherent in his postulates, (many now proved,)

essentially define Newton's observations as special cases that are correct at slow speeds and low masses.

===================

I am of the opinion

that the work of Pons and Fleischmann

in electrolytic cold fusion in Pd electrodes and heavy water may be valid,

and that those many or several experiments that are going on

may develop into an "energy source" which could be of extreme value

in the fairly near future.

However, if they DO so develop,

it will require some new understanding of the nuclear interaction,

or perhaps even a "new force".

{Hey, if astrophysics gets a new force ("dark energy")

it's only fair that nuclear physicists also get one..}

At any rate, this is a "paradigm shift" in the offing, perhaps.

Meanwhile, given the flux in all the changes

of the rates of change these days

(THERE's a power series for ya!)..

all I can say about the edges of reality is:

What you see is what you get

What you get is what you look for

What you look for is what you see.

========================

This is a nifty board.

Thank you.

David

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#1

Re: Science, Paradigm Shifts, and Reality

12/14/2007 3:21 PM

The thing that all the breakthroughs that you mentioned - up until cold fusion - have, and the thing that separates science from charlatanism, is testability and repeatability.

(OK - that's two things)

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#2
In reply to #1

Re: Science, Paradigm Shifts, and Reality

12/14/2007 7:04 PM

Like my GranPa used to say; "Boy, there are three kinds of people in this world. Those that can count and those that can't"

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#3

Re: Science, Paradigm Shifts, and Reality

12/14/2007 7:12 PM

I really like the line of thought. I like the expression of thought. I am a big supporter of fully investigating ALL theories, especially those founded on ancient global ideas.

However the format that it is typed is vveerryy frustrating.

cr3

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#4

Re: Science, Paradigm Shifts, and Reality

12/14/2007 7:57 PM

Well, I posted that using Opera browser:

what about the format is frustrating?

Maybe I hit return at the end of a phrase or thought and it would be better to let the machine do all the sentence ends... Is this better?

============

The point is was made as well as I can make it: but on the other hand, Pierce had a whole book or two to communicate the thought. No matter how much we know, there still is huge "mystery" out there, and we ain't never gonna know it all (unless we go to metaphysics...); and the scientific principle itself is shown (as it were) to be a "paradigm" of something larger. (Based on inferences arising from quantum physics and astrophysics).

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#5
In reply to #4

Re: Science, Paradigm Shifts, and Reality

12/14/2007 8:15 PM

No, I love the subject and how you articulated it. It is the format that is, well I find it lengthy and difficult to follow. I might very well be, the only one.

Well, I posted that using Opera browser:

That is one of the reasons I switched to Firefox - at least here - text editing is a real bitch with Opera on some built-ins

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#6
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Re: Science, Paradigm Shifts, and Reality

12/14/2007 8:46 PM

Reality. At the moment I'll just keep using the knife I have as I know it still cuts and can always be sharpened far more than I can conceive. Quark, quark, sorry, I have to go, there's a call on the other line.

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#7

Re: Science, Paradigm Shifts, and Reality

12/15/2007 1:24 AM

What you see is what you get

What you get is what you look for

What you look for is what you see.

Sadly, it is all too true, too often. My sig says much about that.

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#8

Re: Science, Paradigm Shifts, and Reality

12/15/2007 2:47 AM

An advice I can offer is not to make every new sentence a paragraph... It makes your postings very hard to read!!!

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#9

Re: Science, Paradigm Shifts, and Reality

12/15/2007 3:58 AM

Although I know it is not necessarily the response you were trying to evoke, but I must say I truly like your style. If you aren't prone to writing often, you should consider it. You are thought-provoking and informative, and present some very heady things to consider, but remarkable easy to read. Its a gift not often seen from a technical perspective. So, first of all, thank you.

Secondly, on a much more basic level, I can comment on the situation in product development and manufacturing which equates to your comments. One of my least favorite phrases ... "that's the way we've always done it before" ... speaks also of how easily we get rooted in what we "know", and how that can blind us to 'what else' there may be.

To take a somewhat philosophical view, I recall a professor of a class on 'critical thinking' beginning the term by stating that 'by the end of the term we would know less that we do now', meaning of course that there is an inherent amount of baggage we carry filled with many things which we lump into the 'I know that' category which ought not be there.

Interesting stuff ... thanks

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#10
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Re: Science, Paradigm Shifts, and Reality

12/15/2007 10:01 AM

To take a somewhat philosophical view, I recall a professor of a class on 'critical thinking' beginning the term by stating that 'by the end of the term we would know less that we do now', meaning of....

That is a fundamental Zen statement

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#11
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Re: Science, Paradigm Shifts, and Reality

12/15/2007 3:17 PM

Hello C Rummel 3. Your post is a delightful surprise. From your erudiite commentaries exhibited in previous posts, I would have never suspected you possess an interest in Zen.

Introspection and intuition do play a part in scientific discovery, often to a degree which some scientists find uncomfortable. Perhaps someday Zen and scientific reasoning will meld into a philosophical tool which proves to be more useful than our current theories of understanding phenomena.

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#12
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Re: Science, Paradigm Shifts, and Reality

12/15/2007 4:35 PM

Ahh Zen.

I once was asked if I fear anything.

<I said yes. I fear everything.

>You fear snakes, and butterflies

<Yes. What is the difference?

>Well the snake could kill you.

<And I could kill the butterfly. Which is worse? And a snake once seen only bites a fool. So I would be better served to fear foolishness than snakes.

>So you are afraid of the unseen?

<No. I am not afraid of what does not exist.

>So if you can't see it then it does not exist?

<I can see anything if I close my eyes. Therefore there is no unseen and everything exists. The seen and unseen are the same. If I fear one thing then I fear everything - there is no difference.

Ahh yes. Zen. I live by very, well different, principles than many are willing to. It is part of why I am here at this forum.

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#13
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Re: Science, Paradigm Shifts, and Reality

12/16/2007 2:13 AM

Someday we'll have to discuss the essence and adventure of discovery in all things. My eyes have been opened (or closed ) considerably in the past decade.

Cheers

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#16
In reply to #12

Re: Science, Paradigm Shifts, and Reality

12/18/2007 5:17 PM

Ah yes:

Patanjali:

"Ideas are of 5 types, both painful and pleasant:

right knowledge, wrong knowledge, fancy, sleep, and memory"

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#15
In reply to #10

Re: Science, Paradigm Shifts, and Reality

12/18/2007 5:12 PM

Also Taoist "P:<)

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#17
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Re: Science, Paradigm Shifts, and Reality

12/18/2007 5:43 PM

Indeed.

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#14

Re: Science, Paradigm Shifts, and Reality

12/17/2007 11:33 AM

I'm sure that in years to come science will discover that there are more rules and laws to the universe than the ones we now think we know. I always describe science to my non-science friends as the best idea we have right now for the way we think things work. But like bhankiii mentioned, you have to be able to apply the scientific method to any theory in order to truly prove its worth, this is one thing I'm sure will never change.

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