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Guru

Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 757
Good Answers: 12

Games of chance and random number generators

03/30/2006 7:09 AM

Has anyone noticed, as have I, that other than Casino machines, the results from all "luck of the draw" electronic games--it could be hand helds or software driven games on one's computer--are not very credible? In fact, not even close to analogous outcomes from actual cards, dice, etc. I had always believed that this was intentional, in order to promote "user friendliness" and product sales appeal--people would rather buy a game that allows them to win frequently, and true randomness would defeat such a purpose.

It was not until I began searching for random number generator (RNG) software, that I began to see that the issue is more complicated. I had wanted to be able to select calendar dates and times of day, in random distribution, in order to set a schedule/timetable for administering recurrent medical diagnostic tests to a patient.

My search revealed some very interesting points about which I would appreciate any informed input. For one, many of the software products (firmware, too, I would assume), especially those available as freeware, are not true RNGs--in that, they use various, formulae & algorithms in order to derive a random outcome. However--I am given to understand--it is impossible to generate randomness by the use of mathematical constructs alone: it is necessary to utilize some physical phenomenon--some measure of entropy--in order to generate true random numbers. A lottery drawing devise would be one such example, although, even there, the degree of true randomness is arguable. The so-called, true RNG programs available for computers seem mostly to be based on the ability to measure physical processes that occur with the computer hardware, for example the sound card, or the power supply, and such. Since I am not a physicist, I would very much appreciate any information that would clarify, and simplify, my search for reliable, affordable RNG software--preferably of the freeware or shareware variety. Has anyone had experience with any of these products? How well did they perform for you?

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The Feature Creep

Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 990
#1

Random Number generators

03/30/2006 8:16 AM

Most of the digital random number generators I know of use the system clock to generate the numbers. Technically I think they have to call it pseudorandom number generation as it is more likely to have the same numbers returned over and over.

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Power-User

Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Detroit Downriver
Posts: 119
#2

RNGs

03/30/2006 3:18 PM

A Google search for 'random number generator' turned up many interesting sites including the very informative one below. http://random.mat.sbg.ac.at/generators/

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The legacy of the digital age is that of segregation through differing formats. - HerbVic
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Guru

Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Etats Unis
Posts: 1871
Good Answers: 45
#3

RNG

03/30/2006 11:04 PM

One area where the use of random numbers is essential is in cryptography. Two excellent references which treat the subject are "Applied Cryptography" by Bruce Schneier or "Handbook of Applied Cryptography" by Menezes, Oorschot and Vanstone. Also, I believe there are devices available that you can interface to your computer to get real random numbers. One semiconductor company has developed a chip that uses junction noise or something but I can't remember who it was. Also, you can get or buy lists of say 1,000,000 random numbers.

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Participant

Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 3
Good Answers: 1
#4

RNG

03/31/2006 9:57 AM

I used psuedo random generators of several flavors in Monte-Carlo simulation work. Most algorithm-based PRNGs depend on a seed number to start the process. This is actually useful if you want to create the same "random" number string repeatedly. PRNGs are usually sufficiently random for most applications. If a random natural phenomena is used for the seed, and if one PRNG feeds it's output sequentially to another PRNG as the seed, randomness can be improved. The randomness of the produced string of numbers can be evaluated statistically. If the PRNG is truly random, the probability of each value will be equal. This produces a probability function that is a straight horizontal line. PRNG code is available in many code cookbooks and I have found some online.

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