Claimed Over Unity Generator?

zzzzzzzzzzz prrrrrrrrrrrrr zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz prrrrrrrrrr.

Oh .. what ? over unity..now where did I put those magnets I got for Chrismass? Oh the little buggers ran away all by themselves....

Magnetic monopoles for sale. Cheap! 2 for 1 sale if you call in the next 3 minutes. Free shipping. Call now and also get a copy of Wuthering Heights - the Sequel.

What no hydrogen generator for my car?

No need to shoot the messenger, he is going to commit suicide(financially) by investing in this fraud.

at least "Bullshine" as you politley call it has a viable energy generation potential.

joshua

It would be interesting to talk to Bruno Ciccotelli, who is apparently a real person from Norfolk power.

I have a very hard time imagining this to be anything other than bullshine.

Have the laws of thermodynamics been repealed?

Have the laws of thermodynamics been repealed?

No, but this doesn't matter to people who, like Bugs Bunny, "never studied law".

ok i hase to ask you ask about the laws of thermodynamics ok i have one question who is to say the law is right ? what about all the new materials and metals we now have access to ?

look at all the electrical generation equipment and understand its from back in the 1800's get your head out of the sand and think outside the box.

tesla, westinghouse and edison are all dead and the lies we have been taught need to be fixed.

funny that you can make a generator that does not move and uses less wire then the logs from the 1800's and has amazing output !

here is the real question why did they make the grids 60 and 50 HZ ?

i know this answer and i find it strange that we are still living in that BS

(ok flame away i have my flame suit on now !)

PS: gen asked about gets 1.02 over unity. i will never pay $10,000 to have a meeting with slavo but im the same guy who knows how to get a 18W input to 27KW output the real over unity.

i am not breaking the rules its like i told the university i am fixing the lie that has been told forever.

Another guest, saves the world

but won't bother to share..........................

Westinghouse dead? G'wan with ya. Who is that, then, that makes the curtains move in the Wilmerding Castle?

Anyway, if you can find a single non-quantum violation of the laws of thermodynamics, I'll stand under the Kaufman Clock at noon with a signboard reading "My Bad".

Seriously, 60 Hertz line frequency came out of the East Pittsburgh Westinghouse plant in the late 1800s. The best available evidence is that the engineers picked this as a good solution to light flicker and transmission line characteristics. Most likely, 60 Hz was picked over, say 57.3 Hz or 61.9 Hz, just to have a nice round number.

I think 50 Hz probably came out of Germany (Siemens? I don't know who was driving things there).

here is the real question why did they make the grids 60 and 50 HZ ?

i know this answer and i find it strange that we are still living in that BS

And what would that answer be?

i am not breaking the rules its like i told the university i am fixing the lie that has been told forever.

And what did the university say (I am assuming that by your comments you proposed some sort of free energy generator).

Lies? What lies.

funny that you can make a generator that does not move and uses less wire then the logs from the 1800's and has amazing output !

Sorry? What are you talking about.

I am not aware of any frequency setting conspiracy.

From what little information is given it looks like a scam.

Steer clear of it as you would a bad case of crotch rot.

This is definitely a con job. Everybody knows that if it was real the Illuminati & the New World Order would have murdered the inventor, just like how they murdered the inventors of free-energy batteries, water-burning cars, magnetic drive generators, anti-gravity devices etc.

There are some fundamental reasons one can APPEAR to extract free energy. For an electric motor such as this, it is only necessary to operate with a power factor over 1.0 ( a leading phase angle.) thus the METERED input power will be lower than ACTUAL power pulled from the electrical supply. Then the WORK produced can be larger than the Metered input work. The apparently 'free' work is really pulled from the utility generator and not properly measured by the electric meters.

The apparently 'free' work is really pulled from the utility generator and not properly measured by the electric meters.

Could you explained this?

Is this just a result of the metering scheme not being accurate?

Which component is leading? capacitive or inductive?

ELI, ICE

I'm sorry but I still believe overunity is possible and has been achieved. If not actual overunity something that is much better that we are using now, as far as energy production is concerned. Look at the history. Think of all the people that claim to have witnessed overunity or something like it and all the people that have claimed to have actuslly done it. They can't all be nuts or cons, can they? I personally choose to believe that everything that has been learned about the powers that hold the universe and everything together in it, has NOT yet been learned. Should scientists and experimenters just sit back and say well, lets not try that because educated people say it can't be done. Progress would cease. Now, I would not go out and buy stock in a company that could not be verified by outside sources, but I want (choose) to keep an open mind. I have read many many accounts of inventors that have been threatened and or killed because the oil companies or large auto makers don't want anything to cut into their profits. Ed Gray was basically put out of business by the local DA's office who took all of his plans and working prototypes and never even charged him with anything fpr 6 months!! Stan Meyers was supposedly poisoned before he got anything to market There are hundreds of similar stories. What were they afraid of? In the Phillipines a guy said he had a car that would run on water (hydrogen actually). Whether or not he had something, I don't know, but interesting enough the law there won't allow anything to be made that would cut into profits made by their oil related businesses. I'm just saying don't close your minds too quickly. You may have to eat crow. Don

SINCERITY, IF YOU CAN FAKE IT, YOU WILL HAVE SUCCESS!!!!

THEY CAN'T ALL BE NUTS OR CONS CAN THEY?????

It was not all that long ago that ago that electricity was a mystery.

And then it required the strongest microscope ever created to even see particulates as small as a single atom. Today we not only can see an atom we can separate and shoot a single part

50 miles in a tunnel and wreck it against another tiny particle.

That accomplishment required billions of dollars in public funds and private donations to make it happen.

For years we languished, with so much cheap energy. No one with Scientific back ground was moved to find another way. Doing so would wreck the economy.

Now we face a world crisis. The economy is being wrecked any way, and Scientists, and Engineers still tell the same old story, and do ever more convincingly.

This subject is only over your head because you let be.

ALL THAT IT TAKES TO INVENT, IS A PILE OF JUNK AND A MAN WITH AN IDEA: Thomas Edison

ALL THAT IT TAKES TO INVENT, IS A PILE OF JUNK AND A MAN WITH AN IDEA: Thomas Edison

It also didn't hurt to have Charlie Steinmetz who actually knew the principles of engineering.

This subject is only over your head because you let be.

What subject might that be?

Ken,

If I can offer a thought. Engineers are optimists (who the heck could ever built a space shuttle without a lot of optimism?), but not hopeful. That is, we don't just hope 1008 steel is good up to 200 ksi but we are optimistic that we can solve the problem that requires that. The over-unity folks tend to be hopeful.

T

Sorry Ken I linked over here from this discussion http://cr4.globalspec.com/thread/21123?frmtrk=cr4sd#newcomments

Sorry Ken I linked over here from this...

You will be duly punished. Actually, trying to make sense of toomuchfun's post, with its shouting and peculiar syntax, is a little easier after seeing the other thread.

I gather that he thinks that science (and presumably scientists) are generally good when it comes to developing an understanding of electricity, developing the electron microscope, and bringing particle accelerators into existence. Simultaneously, he appears to be asserting that scientists are bad because they don't support some of his non-scientific notions.

To each his own reality, I suppose.

Blink, "You wrote what possible reason would they have for killing their golden goose?"

I respectfully submit (hypothetically of course) it would be the same reason George Westinghouse stopped all funding of Nikola Tesla's work in broadcasting wireless power: "How can I put a meter on it?"

If an over-unity system could be made to work (hypothetically) then the people who now hold control of the energy infrastructure would be "out of a job."

Hypothetically cordially Dragon

No need for a meter to make money

you would be able to charge plenty for a piece of overunity equipment that wasn't smoke & mirrors, the service contracts alone would keep the next generation rich!

There's no great mystery about broadcasting ac power. I've seen it done. It's not very convenient or efficient. Imagine every power tool you own running at full speed (or more) all the time (no line, no switch). Imagine the butane lighter in your pocket exploding. All the lights in your office stay on all the time. In fact all the flourescent bulbs in the storeroom do too. Now, you could redesign all these things, but I think you see the point why an industrialist who had already invested a lot of time and money in conventional motors and generators would not want to completely start over.

If an over-unity system could be made to work (hypothetically) then the people who now hold control of the energy infrastructure would be "out of a job."

It seems there would be all sorts of jobs available: building and selling large systems, building and selling small systems, etc.

Right now, people so inclined can install solar cells to free themselves from the grid, but few do. BP (and other petro companies) own solar cell tech, and would presumably own free energy (over-unity) tech too, if it became available. Solar cells are an equivalent business proposition, I think -- if we ignore the physics, from a business standpoint solar cells are free energy devices. BP could be making a killing if solar cells were 1/4 - 1/2 the price.

One does not hear of all the independent owners of solar cell and windmill companies getting murdered and their prototypes stolen. Nor did IBM put out contracts on Michael Dell. Among other things, I see little evidence that large corporation have the creativity to control the market -- witness GM's trouncing by what use to be a small Japanese company selling just a couple small cars here.

Genuinely cordially, Ken

And the whole idea of a anti-free energy conspiracy falls apart when we consider this simple fact: several powerful countries (e.g., China, Russia, India, France, Iran, Brazil, Venezuela, etc) would have plenty of incentive to exploit free-energy devices, and the U.S. would not be able to stop them. I have stated this point many times, but I have never received an opposing reply (not even an incoherent one). The silence of free-energy proponents on my point reveals that even they cannot find even a far-fetched counter argument, but of course they can't bring themselves to admit the death of the old anti-free energy conspiracy excuse.

On the subject of so-called overunity motors, it seems strange to me that there are so many companies claiming to have such devices. I would think that no man (or company) in his right mind would ever present such a device for public scrutiny if it didn't work. This man in Austrailia says he has one. Here it is on you-tube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efCelx7qe_M . The Stoern generator, the Hummingbird motor generator, and the Perendev generator are just a couple I can think of that can power a house. There are several more. Most of these companies don't sell there equipment but lease it to the customer. They claim they make there money selling what power is not used back to your power company. Are these people all scammers? The Perendev company spokesman says they have over 60 machines operating now. They say they produce 30 or so machines a month. They operate in Germany I believe. I wonder if they would be able to even operate in this country. We seem to be so wishy washy and bogged down in restrictions, strange laws, and energy suppressing techniques to the point that we cannot seem to get much of anything done here. Anyone coming up with a new machine that don't comply to the status quo seems to get attacked on every side. We (our goverment) need to encourage, fund and help them get going if they have something of value. We can't stay dependent on oil very much longer. The rising price of oil is doing lots of damage to our country right now. No doubt there are scammers out there working hard for your money but I just can't bring myself to believe they all are fakes. What do you think? . Any comments about this?

Really? another guest poking with a sharp stick.

Please provide a link to any science or long term independantly verified testing.

Anyone who can do this nifty trick would quietly sell power to the grid & fund exponential growth of their bank accounts.

I would think that no man (or company) in his right mind would ever present such a device for public scrutiny if it didn't work.

I admire your trusting nature. However, Dennis Lee has been jailed for fraud, and that has not slowed him down a bit. The people who buy into these scams do not "scrutinize" in a meaningful way. When the scammers present devices for public scrutiny, they correctly assume that the public is ill-equipped to evaluate these devices. An over-unity machine is a perpetual motion machine, and neither work, despite attempts for hundreds of years at trying to make one work.

Your words "in his right mind" are perhaps a key. People like Dennis Lee (and many other criminals) are sociopaths. He is probably not "in his right mind". Probably 90% of the people selling "water-for-fuel" kits and devices are also sociopaths, because they know full well that the devices do not work. (Dennis Lee, the Hummingbird guy, also sells the HAFC, a water-for-fuel device.) If these devices worked, they would also have to operate at over-unity efficiency (actually at about 500% efficiency) just to break even on the energy consumed let alone to produce meaningful gases to change performance.

The Stoern generator, the Hummingbird motor generator, and the Perendev generator are just a couple I can think of that can power a house. There are several more. Most of these companies don't sell there equipment but lease it to the customer. They claim they make there money selling what power is not used back to your power company. Are these people all scammers?

Yes, they are all scammers. The Hummingbird is Dennis Lee's scheme. He doesn't sell the device (10. which does not exist, but which will exist soon; 20. go to 10). Instead, he sells the right to sell this hypothetical device -- he sells future dealerships.

I wonder if they would be able to even operate in this country. We seem to be so wishy washy and bogged down in restrictions, strange laws, and energy suppressing techniques to the point that we cannot seem to get much of anything done here.

I doubt that there is a country anywhere (with the possible exception of China) that makes it easier to start up a business of any type whatsoever than the US does. I've started several, one with the intent of providing a wind-powered alternative to a Jet Ski (shouldn't the oil companies tried to kill me?) and another to produce a 100+ mpg vehicle like the one in my avatar (again, shouldn't the oil companies try to kill me?). People with real financial power in this country have invested in all sorts of alternative energy businesses, ("clean tech" is the hot VC area now) and "big oil" even invests in solar cell manufacturing. Corporations here do whatever they can to make a buck, and investing in free energy (if it existed) could make for incredible return on investment. Any corporation would be foolish not to jump on the chance to sell electricity at say .06/kWh to the consumer. Did AT&T suppress cell phone technology because it would eat into land line use? Of course not -- they embrace the new technology because they can make money with it.

Put together a business plan for a device that produces energy for free, demonstrate the prototype, and you are on your way to billionaire status. In my experience I have not seen any supposed roadblocks to making money (and lots of it) in this country.

Free energy, over-unity, water-for fuel devices all fakes? Yes.

Lets compare over unity to over money. I have a device, I installed it in a pocket in my trousers and I put in 3 quarters and take out 4, I have done this until my house is full of quarters, but I want some folding money, so I will sell you one of these units for $25 postpaid in folding money. I had 100 in stock, but 63 of them are sold already.

Now compare that to a device that you feed with 3000 kilowatt hours of electricity and extract 4000 kilowatt hours of electricity. Make 100 of these and sell them.

Now you see how foolish the over unity concept is

Think of all the people that claim to have witnessed overunity or something like it and all the people that have claimed to have actuslly done it. They can't all be nuts or cons, can they?

Well, which do you think? Think of China. China is desperate for energy and it is essentially a dictatorship where Exxon holds little power and the government can do what it needs to do. Yet, they are using coal, importing oil, and starting an ambitious nuclear program. If there were an overunity power source out there, the Chinese would be developing it like gangbusters.

I've been reading about this man's motors for quite some time. A few years ago he sold 40.000 of his fan motors to a company for use in their own business. His company seems to be doing very well. It looks like he has a very different kind and very efficient magnet motor. It seems to be overunity but I don't think any claims are being made along those lines. Read about this company and make your own judgement. I looks like a legit company and I have said it has been around a while. I have no way of knowing if the claims are real or not but I get a good feel about Kohel Minato and his company. Read the story here and see for yourself. For now I think it is only available in Japan. http://www.rexresearch.com/minato/minato.htm

Well there is a "Gold Standard" for overunity motors. A motor that produces more power than it uses has no need of a power cord.

I'm replying to my own comment. Here is something more on the Minato magnetic motor story. Very interesting. http://www.japaninc.com/article.php?articleID=1302

Had a look. Its yet another over unity magnet motor (Minato personally claims 330% efficiency as well as 80% less power than similar motors). The first key point is to actually look at the type of ammeters and voltmeters used to measure and display the pulsed current and voltage waveforms (which is being used to prove over unity). Other key points can be found in the patent.

Sorry, but I have seen this all before (remember the pretty-looking Steron over unity magnet motor website, claims and hopeless unveiling demonstration in England). Yet another case of bad lab work/scam. It's not supprising that people still fall for these demonstrations, especially when they see apparent results in front of them and are being scammed by someone who isn't working out of their garage with a wodden model using fridge magnets.

Can you imagine electric cars running on this motor. Seriously, think about it. With the push on electric cars now, if this motor was not a scam then why is it not being used. Even if you don't understand the physics and science behind the invention to know if it is a scam or not, then surely common sense should tell you that this invention should be being used because it is sooooooo much better than any motor being used at the moment.

To Ken, You probably are right about overunity motors although I really hope not. I am not that educated. I do tend to be gullible due to the fact my parents expected honesty from us and I grew up believing most people were honest. I took a long time for me to realize there are some rotten greedy people out there. I tend to believe though that Hydrogen introduced into the carburator can improve combustion, improve mileage, and burn out some of the carbon. Not over unity but exchaning different types of power to clean up the exhaust some and get better mileage. On the issue of Iraq, I agree with you 100%. Bush tried to show a connection between 911 and Iraq by mentioning them together over and over in his speeches. There was no connection at all. I actually believe Chaney and Bush should be brought up on charges of crimes against humanity. As you have mentioned thousands of innocents have been killed "accidently" of course. And what was it all for. Still nothing much is secure or settled over there. I believe the whole attack was based on a false premise that we have the right to tell a nation that they can't have nuclear weapons, What rubbish!. We have them and have used them. Now we are trying to tell Iran they can't have nuclear power. What kind of gall is that? Anyway thanx for responding to my comments. I appreciate hearing your opinions. Don

Over unity is possible and verified many times, don't be fooled, the established scientific community wont admit to the basic mistakes in their education or the ones that understand won't speak to loudly for fear off being shut down in research or funding for their own projects. Some stand up and fight inequity in our so called scientific theory system!!!

http://www.cheniere.org/correspondence/index.html

energy from the vacuum is over-unity!!! read it and weep because many of you are sheep! Learn and become a shepherd !!!

nope, never ever verified. All these demonstrations are faked and played to people incapable pf properly quantifying the data.

It is all a ludicrous con game.

If you say you believe it, you are either conned or running the con

These are the type of responses that will continue to come from people with FULL (if not fat ) BELLIES and who have 401ks that will keep them driving nice cars and PAYING ELECTRICITY bills FOREVER. Say it doesnt work yeah, but to call them all "Con Games" just shows how disconnected from REAL People " BILL-PAYERS" can be. Enjoy your nice house and job and utilities, some people need things like OVERUNITY to INSPIRE them to change the world. It creates a little something called hope. Consequently, you might find yourself running a little con game of your own..............................

The only thing worse than hope is false hope! I don't remember who said it originally but it certainly applies to science and to a lesser extent religion, but then science can be proven where religion cannot, hence belief plays a big part in religion which leads to hope which is good.

However, belief leading to hope in pseudoscience and scam over unity devices is counterproductive to the development of society, and hope ultimately leads to despair when one of these devices is brought and it doesn't work as claimed. This fills the scammers pocket while emptying that of those real people that have (or had) been given hope.

Now where is the good in that I ask you.

Consequently, you might find yourself running a little con game of your own

As scientists and engineers we are taught that it is unethical to con people with false promises, although I must admit it does happen sometimes (even if for arguably the right reasons).

Hi,

While the debate rages, I have gone ahead and harnessed The zero point energy. over unity is a tad understatement. Read this

http://www.scribd.com/doc/19418242/Free-Energy-

You're gonna need to actually tell us a little about your invention.

the pdf you cite is 500+ pages...

Heres the Page 31

(12) PATENT APPLICATION PUBLICATION (21) Application No.2651/MUM/2008 A

(19) INDIA

(22) Date of filing of Application :22/12/2008 (43) Publication Date : 16/01/2009

(54) Title of the invention : FIXED ROTOR, MOTIONLESS ELECTRICAL POWER GENERATOR

(51) International classi fi cation :F02C3/34

(31) Priority Document No :NA

(32) Priority Date :NA

(33) Name of priority country :NA

(86) International Application No

Filing Date

:NA

:NA

(87) International Publication No :NA

(61) Patent of Addition to Application Number

Filing Date

:NA

:NA

(62) Divisional to Application Number

Filing Date

:NA

:NA

(71)Name of Applicant :

1)PRABHAKAR SAVARGAOKAR

Address of Applicant :MADHAV NAGAR, GORAKSHAN

ROAD, AKOLA-444001, Maharashtra India

(72)Name of Inventor :

1)PRABHAKAR SAVARGAOKAR

(57) Abstract :

Power generation requires mechanical energy or potential energy of large body of water for driving alternators, entailing huge

operating and fixed costs. It calls for expensive recurring mechanical maintenance, fossil fuels combustion and large distribution costs.

The present invention locks rotor and utilizers rotating magnetic fields of locked rotor by means of inverter, relying upon the

excitation currents of the alternator. It does away with mechanical power and generates A.C. or D.C. power in the stator without noise.

The locked rotor is turned into an oscillator-electro-magnetic flywheel.

Rgds

Savvy

Well that's nice, but all you did was reproduce the page?

What about an actual explanation, test results, data.

Short of all that

Pushing magnetic fields around makes heat, which='s loss

& do you use a controller, more losses

Sounds like many other "over-unity" devices that have been patented and which do not work as advertised.

Obviously, the input energy of a workable system comes from "somewhere," not from the ethers or "the vacuum". Aside from the fact that the term "locked rotor" seems nonsensical (if it is locked, then it is a stator by definition) a motor with a locked rotor is nothing more than a transformer. No amount of twisted language and imagination changes that fact.

Provide reliable test data that shows over-unity operation (in other words, something that indicates that your invention is something other than a transformer) and present that data and references here, if you want. But if you really believe that you have created a device which is more than a transformer, and which produces an output greater than its input, then don't waste your time here. Get it on the market, and enjoy your trillions of dollars.

Without clear and verifiable test data to the contrary, it seems that your patent describes an electric heater.

Been away for a while.

I am currently working on launching it commercially. Till then it wouldnt be wise to provide all test results in the public domain. Test results have been sent only to the patent office.

But thanks for all the responses.

Searching that document, "zero" shows up only once, in a unrelated connection. Give us a page number or title.

Thank you for the pseudoscience link. I especially like the link to "Quantum Potential weapons used to suppress over unity systems" (by David Bohm)

"As you know, several nations of the world have developed quantum potential weapons and devices, from David Bohm's hidden variable interpretation of quantum mechanics. Further, the largest and most powerful cartels (which Churchill just generically called the "High Cabal") also have the use of such devices, since the cartels penetrate the governments and get access to anything of use to them, whether classified or not. It appears that the use of quantum potential effects is going to be used to directly "stop" legitimate over unity researchers who have systems approaching being ready for production and marketing with little additional difficulty."

I needed a good laugh on a Friday morning.

Let Al Gore know please if you find one of these free energy generators that actually works (but only if it is carbon-free).

Feel free look at Keelynet for all your free energy and perpetual motion power generation and fuel needs. Since no one else in the world has bothered to use any of these "working" devices to displace the existing power industry and make billions I can only assume they are all lazy, but not you, no you could be the first! Fortune and riches await!

http://keelynet.com/

Leave us engineers and scientists to plod away on our own with our science and laws, after all after looking at your link and keelynet, what do we know!

I get a kick out of you flat-earthers who stick to your dusty textbooks and deny evidence and proof-of-concept of overunity and perpetual motion devices.

If perpetual motion is such fantasy, how do you explain planetary orbits around a stellar body? Are there rockets powered by fossil fuels attached to the planets/planetoids? Perhaps propellers and rudders powered by nuclear energy?

Yes, gravitational pull would be the correct answer, although theories centuries old would have had you believe otherwise.

I suppose Nikola Tesla, Wilhelm Reich, and so many others had to cope with the same nonsense witnessed herein. Before speculating, perhaps flying out and testing these systems for yourselves rather than relying on third party critique, parroting the status quo or, for that matter, relying on YouTube videos or other forums as counter-evidence, may offer some insight into what you 'critics' seem to be consistently ridiculing/missing.

However, it's only natural for engineers to be critical, and thankfully so. Who would want to cross a bridge which only had a .0001% chance of collapsing... you just may be that 1-in-a-million person to cross it.

Remember, think outside of the box, perhaps even burn it, and you may be inclined to shed the limitations of your indoctrination... or, rather, 'education'.

Discovery consists of seeing what everybody has seen and thinking what nobody else has thought.
-- Jonathan Swift

An inventor is simply a fellow who doesn't take his education too seriously.
-- Charles F. Kettering

Education is a progressive discovery of our own ignorance.
-- Will Durant

Education is indoctrination if you're white - subjugation if you're black.
-- James A. Baldwin

ANOTHER HIT & RUN BY A GUEST

If you make the time scale long enough & the apperant changes subtle enough, planatery & stellar motions appear mystical, perpetual.... Stars are in fact fueled by nuclear energy.

I don't pretend to know what set the universe in motion [a question for Jordi or Rodger Pink], or to be able to explain the exact inner relationships.

Bullshit walks & evidence talks, got any?????????

It's not up to us to prove you wrong

It's up to you to prove your "con"cept valid

Need help with the scientific method, you've come to the right place.

Wanna blow smoke up our collective butts, don't be suprised with what is returned...

I get a kick out of you flat-earthers who stick to your dusty textbooks and deny evidence and proof-of-concept of overunity and perpetual motion devices.

As one of a number of qualified and experienced engineers and scientists who frequent CR4 I actually look into free energy and perpetual motion devices both on the internet and mentioned here on CR4. It's not about denying proof, its about never ever getting any REAL VERIFIABLE proof.

Extraordinary claims call for extraordinary evidence, and none has ever been provided. U-tube videos, video of results using cheap inaccurate meters and scam artist claims will never be a substitute for real evidence.

See the previous posts on CR4 that I and others have made on other specific free energy, perpetual motion and fringe science devices that we have actually looked at, researched and assessed in the pursuit of finding out "is this a real development that could benefit the world in any way".

Nothing found yet, just a lot of the same old flawed ideas and scams "reinvented" over and over by people that think that it is something "new". Doesn't mean I will get discouraged and stop looking however. I will be sure to let you all know if I find anything.

Yes, gravitational pull would be the correct answer...

This is complete and utter BS. Gravitational pull is not the correct answer. It is one small part of a correct answer that we are continuing to discover. If gravitational pull were the only effect in control, all our planets would have long ago been absorbed into the sun.

Your disdain for education somehow does not convince me that I should throw out everything I know about how things work and take up the belief in magic you seem to want to promote. Idi Amin thought well outside the box too, but that did not make me want to take up cannibalism.

If you want any reasonably intelligent person (formally educated or otherwise) here to buy into your anti-science, anti-education view, then you simply need to provide the evidence you claim exists. No search of the web turns up anything even remotely plausible in the way of "evidence and proof-of-concept of overunity and perpetual motion devices". In fact, a search of the web produces a preponderance of evidence to the contrary, as does a search of those dusty textbooks you reject.

Perhaps better than our "flying out and testing these systems" (of which there are hundreds) would be to have a single promoter of such drivel fly in and claim the Randi award, or publish in Science or Nature, etc., etc., etc. There are so many avenues open to promoters of over-unity devices, and all that is required is a simple demonstration of one that works -- but no one has made such a demonstration.

Perhaps you can be the first. When you've got the demo ready to go, come back and talk to us. That is a simpler, more direct approach than whining about how education makes one stupid. Until I see such a demonstration, I'll hang with the people (formally educated or otherwise) who seem to have some clue of how things work.

Has there been any credible response (I mean, besides the spook "debunkers" who simply want a forum to rant on...)?

I would like to know more about this system... any links? Not a lot on the web.

Thanks,

L

Not a lot on the web

Not a lot on their official site either (last update was a blog entry in 2007), and the latest news I could find was dated 24th April (a request for money to build a prototype)

http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Energy_By_Motion_(EBM)

Two years on, after having another look at Gamma manager, it still looks every bit like an over unity scam crafted to take money from investors.

If you are really serious in investing in this claimed over unity product try contacting the people mentioned on the certification test page, or Gamma manager directly.

http://www.gammamanager.com/certific.html

Actual independent test product verification is going to be enormously difficult due to the fact the stated minimum free-energy generator size is 1000kW, with a cost of between 3500 to 1000 US dollars per kw (meaning unless you have a lot of money to actually BUY a sample system you have to take their word this over unity device works).

Investors beware, but in the end it is your choice.

Jack - An actual power transmission and distribution Engineer

How could one tell the difference between "spook debunkers who simply want a forum to rant on" and

1. debunkers actively interested in reducing fraud,

2. debunkers interesting in promoting good science over pseudo science?

For those looking for unscientific, uncritical, gullible acceptance of over-unity devices there is Peswiki, Keelynet, etc. Following those sites frees one from the need to think. There are many other sites promoting free energy devices as well, and if one works, most will work -- they all rely on profound implausibilities and overturning of principles that have been proven and reproven, strengthened and re-strengthened over the centuries. If the laws of thermodynamics are bogus, then anything is possible, and perhaps investing in the company run by the guy with the best hair style is the way to go.

If you strongly believe that science is wrong, then there are hundreds of these devices to invest in. Might as well go for the big names: Dennis Lee, Steorn, Lutec, Searl, etc. But both devices mentioned in this thread are equally good, and just as good, likely, and valid as the big name devices. Maybe start up a fund to invest in all?

Electrical things have wires, and these devices have wires. So they must work.