Why the PICC works

Your cohorts in this endeavor, Dennis Lee (PICC) and Paul Pantone (GEET) have both done jail time for securities fraud, etc. (You'll note that even Peswiki, singularly uncritical of free energy scams portrays Pantone as a scammer.)

Perhaps, so you don't follow these guys to jail, you could provide your gizmos to EPA for testing, so that their benefits can be documented. Otherwise you will be seen to be bilking the public.

When you say that MIT has developed "it" for Arvin Meritor, "it" seems to refer back to the PICC. There is no truth in that. The plasmatron is a different device entirely: in the MIT team's as yet unsubstantiated claims, they hope to reduce consumption by 20% (and in 2003, projected being in production by 2004). That is entirely different than claiming that you can reduce consumption by a factor of 900%, as the PICC folks do.

If you calculate the HP required to move a 318ci powered van up a 30 degree slope at 65 mph, you'll find it to be far more than a 318 can produce. Yet the PICC site claims this is only 50% power. It's gibberish, as is the entire video with Dennis Lee sucking exhaust from the running engine.

I'd wish you luck in selling your generators, but the last thing the world needs is yet another scam artist.

I thought they threw Pantone in a mental institution. All that takes is some authority to scream "evil sourcery". It's the same mindset, and social phenomenon as the people who used to burn whitches on steaks.

I live in Canada, where can I take the unit for testing?

just like anyone can say something does work on the internet, anyone can say that it doesn't. The people that say they don't, are probably the ones with computer injection systems that rejected the change, or that put too much electrolyte solution in their mixture, causing high amp pull, and the water to boil, or wires to burn. Please link me to any studies done on hydrogen injection.

Thousands of people must have tried these on their vehicles by now, 1-4 are currently being sold on ebay everyday, and even more plans to build them are being sold there aswell. I havn't sold any yet. Any insitute that would like to test this can call 519-842-9211. I live in ontario, I'll drive to Waterloo, London, or Toronto. Right now I can't afford the fund my own tests. Any near by truck owners, can have a unit for free too try it out, for a few months.

I'm not 100% behind the PICC claims, I'm just saying the concept does work to an extent. The same type of thing is being done with coal gasification. It's making coal burning for efficient, by breaking the coal down into a "finner" gas before using it. Most coal gasification is done the old way, by burning with less oxygen, but it will be more efficient when they use plasma to do it instead, I'm sure.

1-4 are currently being sold on ebay everyday

By people that have brought it and it doesn't work perhaps?

...Oh, I checked out your site www.atomicfueltech.com.

Oh dear.

I don't think I can help you any further. I would suggest that (as I have said before) rather than relying on some study, you actually properly test the device yourself.

See my previous threads and posts on how to perform simple scientifically verifiable tests to get meaningful results.

(Oh good lord another takes the dark path of free energy promises).

You cannot believe everything you read on the internet. If these claims of super efficiency and miracle devices were true (ignoring all the flawed scientific principles and total lies that are spouted, including fake videos, testimonials and made-up experts, etc) then these people would solve our energy problems and be billionaires. But they haven't (and these devices have been around in one form or another ever since the birth of electricity). No scientific proof, no scientific verification by a third party, no conspiracy. Nothing. I work in the power industry and have looked and have found nothing that convinces me that these and other developers of this technology are nothing more than idiots or scammers. I have looked and assessed the technology on a case-by-case basis over the years. Nothing.

Don't even mention the GEET, the fact you mentioned it indicates that I am probably wasting my time trying to convince you (see link below).

http://cr4.globalspec.com/comment/192740/Re-Too-Good-to-Be-True-Engines-that-Run-on-Water

Sorry but you are chasing a fantasy. I can provide links to videos showing aliens and chickens playing pool. They look very real.

No free lunch my friend, and no quick fix.

actually it's you, and ken who I'm wasting my time with. your religion is the government, and military, and kens it the scientific, institutions. Newton is a saint, and the law's of therodynamic's is the ten commandments. And to are as religous to these as the Arabs are to Islam. It's really that simple.

actually it's you, and ken who I'm wasting my time with

I agree. There are millions of people far easier to swindle than Jack and I.

You see now you are starting to make things up your self. I work for a privately owned company and the R&D I do in the areas of power generation and storage is done in an impartial way with the goal of finding new technologies or development areas to further develop or produce to help make the world a better place. I am as impartial as anyone you will probably ever be involved with, as I have said numerous times before I actually bothered to research the free energy and miracle MPG devices along with the technology and the people behind it. All I found was pseudoscience and a lot of devices that do not work (some had there elements that looked promising but not in the areas that the inventors/scammers were looking at). The PICC is a good example of this as if marries numerous free energy and MPG increasing concepts into one product.

Religion has nothing to do with it. Religion is belief in something that cannot be proved. Science and engineering development is not religion as it is easily proved (or disproved). In science and engineering, belief is no match for actual scientific proof, no matter how much or how many people want to believe in it. Personal attacks, religion and conspiracy theory are also not a substitute for facts.

After all, a thousand wrongs don't make it right.

Which devices did you research, and did you see them in person?

Did the GEET at least make a plasma inside of it?

Religion is fact to religous people, because the bible says it's true. The laws of therodynamic's do not apply 100%, isn't there a number of unexplainable phenomenm in science? The laws of therodynamic's do not cover quantum physic's, and you cannot disconnect quantum physic's from other physic's.

Feel free to read my previous posts, I (and others) have explained it all there.

Religion is fact to religous people, because the bible says it's true

That's hardly a validation of a miracle device (and I am Christian!). Lets let actual facts and properly conducted and verified tests speak for themselves when science and engineering are involved. It is the only way to know the truth, especially when too-true/miracle/over unity/impossible-seeming devices are concerned. There are after all literally thousands of free energy and over unity devices and scams available on the internet, many of them patented, dating right back to when electricity was discovered (and even before for the mechanical ones).

After all extraordinary claims call for extraordinary evidence, especially when known and proven laws appear to be either bent or broken. Some things are possible but they must be proven, and a utube video and some testimonials are not proof by any stretch of the scientific or engineering imagination.

This is how the scientific and engineering world works. Proper proof required (and lots of it), verified by numerous accredited third party scientists and engineers.

I'm not going to bother looking back through all your posts, I've seen a lot of them already, and none of them fully explain why these things won't work. (hydro assist, GEET)

If you wrote up why it wouldn't work I bet it would be something like this,

http://community.discovery.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/9551919888/m/2321969559

and this poster misses a whole side of it..if there's anything you would like to add to that please do.

If you wrote up why it wouldn't work I bet it would be something like this

No, I would keep it much simpler (and I have done so). No use baffling people who ask with technical jargon when the average person wont know what I am talking about. Similarly, just quoting thermodynamic laws only helps if the person understands them (and from my experience the average person dealing with or enquiring about these devices doesn't). KISS principle after all.

and this poster misses a whole side of it..if there's anything you would like to add to that please do.

Yes, could you please explain what side the poster missed. I think it is rather clear (although I have a greater understanding of science, engineering and quantum physics and mechanics than the average person so my view point may be skewed a bit). Unfortunately from my experience, most of the free energy and perpetual motion developers and society have as much (or less) understanding than the average person, which tends to make discussions rather difficult, usually ending up in me getting abused for asking simple questions or proving something they don't want to here. Gets VERY frustrating, like talking to a very abusive wall that gets side tracked easily onto conspiracy theories, aliens, my religion, etc.

Some days you wonder if you are making a difference at all.

Dennis Lee is behind this whole HAFC thing.

He has been promising various high mileage schemes for 6 years now and free electricity for 20. proof is always a few weeks away. I have been trying to get any of these mileage doubling claimants out there to just let me test a car for 10 years now - it is always "soon". If there are hundreds of people getting near doubled mileage, why can't I find one to let an independent person test it. Go ahead yourself and google hafc and picc - you will see hoards of MLM victims promoting it - if you email them, you find they don't quite have it working themselves.

Eric Krieg

Hi Eric:

You've done some great work over the years in helping to put a damper on these scams and frauds. It's frustrating that Dennis Lee and many others are still in action, but I am sure your work has helped reduce the number of people who are being defrauded.

Thanks,

Ken