How do you set up a Windows/Linux system

This is a copy of a reply is from CHTANK. The original can be found at:

Re: Active desktop turns off by it self 03/30/2008 2:12 PM

You have missed out on one Linux desktop distribution that even a died in the wool Windows user would rave about, http://www.pclinuxos.com/. In fact, you can buy a very advanced computer with PCLinuxOS already installed for far less than you can buy the same machine with Vista or (like so many are opting to do) XP installed, see http://linpc.us/. In fact, I bet if you asked Eric, he could put you on in dual boot with windows if you wanted, but he will tell you, he makes his living as a service tech repairing the same windows systems about once every six months.

To let you know, I am a dinosaur (age 75) who does not do commandline at all. I did, however, successfully built (actually rebuild) my own primary computer. It is now an AMD 64 X2 dual core 4000+ processor on an Asus M2N-E motherboard with 2 gig of DDR2 ram, a PCIe video card to run my new 19" Acer LCD monitor for less than $500. I run PCLinuxOS exclusively. I got rid of Windows, WIn2000pro, two years ago and have not been bother with malware since. I love my PCLinuxOS and will continue to actively support it and the open source community.

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chtank

Orpheuse,

I am going to give you a link, http://www.on-disk.com/, on which you can find LiveCD's for Linux. If you get a LiveCD of PCLinuxOS 2007 and put that in your rom cradle and reboot, it will start up and lead you thorugh a dual boot of LInux and WIndows. WIndows must be in the first sectors of your HD, but Linux can be anywhere, so with the LiveCD installation of Linux it automatically sets up dual boot and from the Linux side, you will be able to read most of your files that are on the Windows side. You may not be able to run them, but you can see them. Windows is funny that way, they don't like you using other OS's for their stuff, but all you have to do is reboot into Windows to use Windows only applications.

Thank you, kind sir, for the link, for the tip and, especially, for understanding.

Orpheuse

Would it be better if I dedicated one drive just for Linux? I'm thinking that it might keep things a little 'neater'. It might also be easier to debug a problem or locate a file.

Orpheuse

You can do it that way, make your slave drive the Linux system, Microsoft must be on the master drive in the first sectors. Before you go to this, you might use your IRC client to go to a freenode server and join us in #PCLinuxOS-Support and there you can have plenty of tech support as you install and set up your linux operating system. For general Linux chatting, we gather in #PCLinuxOS but for support, we go into the support channel. Also, you can get support on the forum, which is linked from the http://www.pclinuxos.com/ website, left top side. You should register to make things easier.

I'll be starting this up on the 4th, when my check comes in.

We'll continue then.

Thanks, buddy

Orpheuse

Funny thing, This will cost you nothing more than your time and patience and about $5.00. Once you get Linux install, you use Synaptic to do an upgrade of about 560 files from the ibiblio repository. The ibiblio repository is maintained by Texstar, the the founder and head man for PCLinuxOS, our Starman. He is very careful to make sure all the modules are well formed, up to date, and stable. After the update is complete, you will want to look though the repository for applications to fit your cyber lifestyle. Almost all the stuff you pay Microsoft for is available via open source for Linux. Since I do some engineering, I have obtained QCad, inkscape, and Xara Xreme, all are vector graphics drawing systems. Of course, OPen Office has a drwing tool, too, but it is way too primitive for me. For my photos, I edit with GIMP (also available for Windows) and for 3D graphics, a very powerful tool, Blender. I like to develop websites, too, so I use Bluefish and then transfer the html files to my servers with gftp. All of the applications above are free of any cost, as is the tech support on freenode and/or the forum. so, as you set up your PCLinuxOS, you will be out a whopping $5.00 for the LiveCD and nothing more, except for any hardware you need. You can even save the $5.00 for the LiveCD if yoiu have a burner (CD or DVD) and download PCLinuxOS. To download is free. Now, tell me, what can be cheaper to do, run Windows or Linux?

I will be looking forward to hearing from you next Friday.

yours,

tank

I am currently experimenting with migrating from Windows to Linux, and I found that setting up the dual boot system was the easiest part of the process. I downloaded a Ubuntu distribution from the Internet (I primarily selected Ubuntu because there is a local support group- I did not do a study as to which distribution would be most appropriate for my needs- wading through all the different claims and comparisons would be rather tedious and most likely not very fruitful, since the Linux community is overwhelmed, as are most communities, with unsubstantiated hype. The only way to determine if a particular system is appropriate is to load it and test it). The distribution I selected did all the hard work (i.e., partitioning the hard drive, installing, and configuring the system to get started). The hard disk was new, having been replaced due to a previous crash and freshly loaded with a current version of Windows XP.

OK, so now what? An operating system is pretty useless all by itself. The distribution came with OpenOffice, which I had played with on my Windows systems (I find the Open Office spreadsheet a poor substitute for Excel), but a primary driver for my search for a new operating system is the fact that newer versions of Windows do not support most of the applications that are critical to me (especially drivers for legacy test and measurement equipment that is still functional. A major problem is that the manufacturers of the equipment generally are not interested in supporting legacy equipment- they want to sell you newer models that do not necessarily enhance the functions required, but add only bells and whistles). That's one reason I still keep an old Windows 98 machine up and running.

I have discovered that there is at least an effort within the Open Source community to keep old applications alive. There is an application called Wine that allows running legacy Windows applications on a Linux system without dual boot. While it is far from perfect, I have successfully migrated some older applications to my Linux box using this functionality. Furthermore, I have found that some of my favorite analysis software (Scilab and the NIST DataPlot program) are available in Linux versions. I have had trouble finding accounting software simple enough and complete enough to meet my needs (I am currently trying out GnuCash, which I was able to get up and running in Windows XP rather painlessly, but have been unable to date to get it working under Ubuntu!). I have not yet found an acceptable CAD system to replace my old TurboCAD program (which was originally written for Windows 95 and which I had to trick to get it to run on my Windows 98 machine).

I estimate that it is going to take me a couple of years to get the functionality out of the Linux system that I enjoyed with my old Windows 98 system. The alternative, migrating to the latest Windows version, would require an investment in new software and hardware (NOT including a new computer) on the order of $7000, without adding any significant (i.e., profitable) capabilities to my current suite. The time invested in putting together the Linux system may be hard to justify financially, but it offers a significant advantage over the alternative- I am regaining control of my computer...

Dear Sirs:

In regards to comments about Linux, dual booting and legacy support. Linux is the future, it is already use in many area that Windows cant even begin. (ie router, cell phones, printers, IP cameras, print servers, PDAs, embedded devices etc.) Linux is currently being used by the US Navy, US Army, NASA, NATO and 80%+ internet routers. Mac recently went to OSx which is based on Unix/Linux, MAC also began using Intel chips, so MAC is now basically Linux on a PC.

As for an OS being useless by itself, I would agree. This another area that Linux shines. With Linux, a the distribution maintains their own set of application build from the free open source code. For instance with PCLinuxOS, there are 7000+ applications available to the users . These are all free. With Ubuntu the selection is even greater, 12000+ packages.

As for dual booting , it is easy to setup and maintain. As someone mentioned Wine is an app. that emulates windows, it is improving with each release. What may be the best solution now is a virtual system. Using a virtual system like VMware, VirtualBox or Qemu a use can install Windows inside Linux. This eliminates the need to reboot to access the windows environment. The fact that it is actually running windows makes it more likely to work properly with older software.

Another great thing about Linux is its released under the GPL(read more here GNU General Public License). In simple terms this means that the development is open to any developer that wishes to contribute. Under this license the development tends to be much better and quicker. Imagine having developers from around the world working on a project together, not because they are paid but because they have a love or a need for the application.

Good luck Gentlemen

I have looked at VMWare as well as Wine. My problem with VMWare is that I can not identify the appropriate Virtual Appliance to accomplish what I want. I am not yet willing to invest significant funds into a solution- I want to know if the potential exists to solve the issues I face. So far, Wine comes closest to meeting my needs, although there are problems with some applications working in Wine (most likely, unidentified drivers). An application of particular interest to me is a legacy version of TurboCAD originally written to run on Windows 95, but working (for the most part on Windows 98). The problem in Wine is in accessing the built-in libraries of parts. I can view drawings quite nicely, and simple things like drawing lines are OK. But to do serious work, I need access to at least some of the libraries that came with the distribution. Any ideas?

This is a problem many in Engineering face. We are not programmers, we do not have time to be programmers. We do, in many cases, hack our way to a solution just as cwarner7 is doing. One of the problems that still exist for many of us is that most programmers and computer techs are not engineers and designers and most of our designers are not computer techs nor programmers. It is a shame that too many programmers and computer techs fail to listen to the needs of the designers or that they want an arm and a leg to fix even the simplest for problems. That is the greed complex that Windows brings to us and is what makes engieering so expensive, too. BTW, NASA does use good cad programs. Perhaps it is time for NASA to pass some of their tools on to industry via open source; it there any chance of that happening. I know that some NASA ppl are watching.

It would seem to me that NASA productions funded by US citizens ought to be available to the citizens that paid for that development. It might be good for US citizen educational needs if the programs they paid for worked for them without additional charge.

People of other nations who are party members and ruling elites of Kleptocracies ought to pay for the programs created by workers, in my opinion.

Communications are educational without any particular sylibus.

Years ago I worked on an industrial film about what was called an Applied Learning Device, which really amounted to a box that interfaced every imput regardless of hardware and software that a student would have from the first grade on.

It reminded me of Penny's Power Book from my work on The Inspector Gadget Show.

I really wanted one.

Someday I hope to have a laptop.

Thanks Chtank, I've found this and will try to apply.

One government tool I use extensively is a program out of NIST called DataPlot. Open source and free. Extensive signal analysis (or other types of data). Google DataPlot.

cwarner

You can for little or no cost install Linux and VirtualBox and try it to see if your old applications will work. I would (as chtank has) recommend PCLinuxOS. You can download the .iso of PCLinuxOS for free. The only thing you need extra may be an extra hard disk, 10GB minimum. Install the HDD, install PCLinuxOS, open Synaptic (package manager) search for VirtualBox(also free) and select it for install. Then install windows 98 into VirtualBox, then install the apps you wish to test. Doing it this way you do not disturb your current Windows install and if it doesn't work for you, you can just format the drive and try another option.

Good luck.

Thanks for the tip- VirtualBox is one I have not looked at yet. I will check it out...whoops. They want me to have some libraries I don't have, and can't find on the Ubuntu downloads site. OK, a little more work...

I have Ubuntu 7.10 installed and I live by it. I have WinXP installed in a virtual machine using virtual box for those situations and programs that require windows that my company requires that I use like Autocad and Raydream and BACtalk. Wine would work, except BACtalk requires some network components in windows. Ubuntu has live cd's like pclinux, and the help forums are awesome. There is a step-by-step answer to any question and/or problem. It is so easy to use, my computer illiterate wife is using it and she does not even know it. I made a back up of my windows drive and restored it in my virtual machine and then backed that up so there is never a need to reinstall windows and the windows machine is available whenever i need it. It is an unbeatable and very stable way to go.

WOW! AutoCAD in VirtualBox??? I AM impressed...

Now you are going!

My computer illiterate wife runs Win98se on her own machine. It is also the machine that has an old Visioneer Paperport 3000 flatbed scanner running in tandem with a HP 648C deskjet printer. The problem with inkjet printers is that they keep running out of ink even when not in use and replacement cartages are way beyond reason. I have considered setting her up with Linux since I have to operate her machine for her anyway, but then, I do want to scan some old photographs now and then. Once scanned and stored on her machine, it is easier to e-mail copies to myself on Linux than it is to keep her machine online and vulnerable to attack (and forgetting to shut it down - computers do burn lots of electricity) than it is to retrieve the graphics via the LAN.

Yesterday, I did install vitualbox and WINE on my PCLinuxOS system and I did look at (re-)installing my (legal) copy of Win2000pro on that machine. I still have my old (legal) copy of Autodesk's Autocad Lt 97 and am considering (re-)installing it, too, on the Win2000pro once I get it installed. Both the 2kpro and acad were expensive to own and I hate to cast them aside. I have other M$ applications and hardware as well that are sitting idle on a shelf but I have absolutly no need for them now.

I have virtualbox currently set for 4 gig as the virtual c drive, but I think I should increase that to 10 gig if I am to install acad, too. However, the primary reason for using virtualbox is to be able to use my HP Laserjet 1000 printer. It seems that HP no longer will support the 1000 for Linux, with only the Windows drivers being supported. The schema I am planning is to use the HP driver dc disk supplied with the printer to set up the printer on the 2k system, then run it in the background as the local network printer.

Now, as for Ubuntu vs PCLinuxOS, I do not like the gnome desktop that Ubuntu uses. I prefer the KDE desktop. This is my only reason for my choice of Linux desktops, but, also, I have been following the development of PCLOS since the beta version 0.91, running it in dual boot with my old win2kpro until the Windows system crashed a while back (for the last time - it had crashed often). By then PCLOS 2007 was available and I love it. In my feeble mind, PCLOS is the best. Besides, I have met Bill, Texstar, the leader of the PCLOS development team, in person. He even came to my house way back with 0..91 to help me set up my LAN. Old dinosaurs really need the help and since they are living on social security, they cannot afford to pay out much for techs. Windows techs are outrageous and Linux techs are mostly free via the internet. I, for one, have not minded at all to contributing to the development teams as I have the extra funds available. I do, however, have a good deal of time that I can contribute if that is of any value.

Once I get my virtualbox set up as planned and know it works, I will be reporting back to you with all the problems and how I solved them. We of the engineering community have a big job ahead of us as we move to provide our earth with safe, reliable, pollution free enerrgy. We simply do not have the time to learn programming and the ins and outs of commuter engineering, we have to do our job well. We have spent a lifetime becoming proper engineers.

OK, I played around with virtualbox, successfully installed Win2000pro and the HP 1000 printer driver, but I did not like what I had and removed it all from my computer. Microsoft is simply not worth having and is a curse on us all. I did keep the WINE application, however, but I doubt I will be using it and will, likely, remove it, too. I would have to go into my partitions and set up a partition for Windows if I want to install some Windows applications to run with WINE and for the life of me, I can't think of any WIndows Application I would want to use.

OK. My Amprobe Power Meter (old equipment, still functional) does not have drivers for Linux. My Fluke 89-IV DMM does not have drivers for Linux. My CAD program does not work in Linux (and the Open Source versions of CAD I have looked at are not nearly as sophisticated. Of course, I don't realy NEED AutoCAD- a less sophisticated program would work. But, it has to WORK). BrlCAD works in Linux, but it doesn't do what I want it to do. I need a SPICE program for electrical circuit analysis- not because I design circuits, but because I need some way to be sure what I am measuring is what I should be getting. My Link Instruments Oscilloscope may or may not work in Linux- I have not finished my investigation of this. I have a couple of other data acquisition tools that I have developed my own software for, and these, with time, I could most likely port to Linux. Years ago, I developed quite a bit of software (personal use, not commercial) for accessing data acquisition equipment with an old HPUX machine, and, quite frankly, Unix is a whole lot easier when it comes to talking to other machines. Time, of course, is an issue of no small importance. I recently adopted an Open Source accounting program (GnuCash) which worked "out of the box" in Windows XP, but I have not been able to get it configured for Linux yet (and my accountants won't wait). Scilab worked out of the box in Linux, but I have been unable to get NIST Dataplot to run on my Linux box (more configuration time...).

Just the other day, I was trying to solve a problem with a piece of customer's equipment. My Windows 98 machine was running the oscilloscope, my Laptop with Windows XP was running a SPICE model, my Palm agenda was tracking the time I was spending on the project and serving as a pocket calculator as needed, and I was taking notes on my Ubuntu box, and using Open Office Calculator to analyze data (this was a small project, so I did not need the full capabilities of Microsoft Excel- I still find Open Office too limiting in their spreadsheet solution).

I estimate that at my current rate of development, it will take me up to 2 years to gain the capabilities I currently have with my old Windows 98 machine. That's why I still need to have windows around. Customers aren't going to wait for me to get a new system up and running...