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Member

Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 7
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Request recommendations on testing efficacy of electrical power cable insulation

04/07/2008 11:03 AM

I am looking for recommendations on "next steps" to more thoroughly investigate the insulating integrity of electrical power cables feeding one of our industrial facilities. Specifically, I would appreciate recommendations from this group on what types of further testing I might undertake and/or references to industry professionals with expertise in testing and evaluating both safety and efficacy of electrical power cables.

Background information:

  • Facility main power is distributed exterior to the building in +3,000 linear feet of aluminum cable trays traversing across the roof;
  • Cable trays were originally installed without any protective top covers approx. 20 year ago;
  • Top covers were eventually installed approx. 12 years ago;
  • CU power cables range in size from #2, 1/0, 2/0 to 4/0;
  • CU cables are not bundled but loosely laid in trays;
  • Cable trays are minimally loaded at no more than 20% of rated quantities;
  • Insulation is standard "indoor- rated" THHN and without any UV protection;
  • Facility is located in Virginia, USA;
  • Outer-most vinyl covering on all cables show signs of UV deterioration - vinyl has peeled from cable like a shedded snake skin;
  • THHN insulation is now fully exposed and appears to be slightly discolored - similar to the normal dulling of paint one would expect on a 5 year-old vehicle;
  • No other signs nor symptoms of defects to cables are visually apparent;
  • The facility has not experienced any electrical issues or incidents attributable to the cable.

Actions and results to date:

  • Two local electrical contractors suggested complete replacement of all cabling and cable trays based solely on their respective and subjective visual inspection - no objective testing or evaluations were conducted;
  • I hired an independent testing company to conduct a thorough infrared imaging of the entire electrical distribution system - results were favorable with no indications of "electrical hot-spots", "arcing", "voltage leakage", or any other problems readily detectable by infrared technology;
  • Several local industry suppliers are either reluctant and/or lack any expertise in conducting in-situ insulation testing and analysis;
  • In-situ destructive testing would prove extremely challenging due to current 24/7 365 operating schedule.

Due to the criticality of our operations, and to my "personal inexperience" in objectively evaluating such electrical insulation issues, I am reluctant to conclude the insulation is still adequate and the power cable is without risk of failure based solely on the infrared imaging results. I would appreciate input from this group on what additional tests a prudent engineer should conduct on this system.

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Guru

Join Date: Aug 2007
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#1

Re: Request recommendations on testing efficacy of electrical power cable insulation

04/07/2008 3:54 PM

If you are concerned about the insulation, then conduct a hipot/meggar test ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hipot ). It may prove "prove extremely challenging", to schedule it, but the test should not take much downtime. Alternately, if you have dual feeds, then you can run off of one while the other is shutdown, isolated and tested.

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Guru

Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Van Nuys, CA
Posts: 563
Good Answers: 33
#2

Re: Request recommendations on testing efficacy of electrical power cable insulation

04/07/2008 6:54 PM

I would get a couple of estimates for complete replacement of the cables. If the cost of replacement is anywhere near the cost of testing... (or the cost of testing PLUS replacement, should the test results recommend so.)

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Power-User

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Sheboygan, WI USA
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#3

Re: Request recommendations on testing efficacy of electrical power cable insulation

04/07/2008 11:07 PM

From what you have described it may outlive us. You may never have seen knob and tube wiring, etc. There is no practical testing method for this low voltage wiring, the insulation may be good for 5,000 volts on a 120 volt circuit.

But if there is one short the whole bundle of wires will be burnt up and useless.

I would budget, engineer and install over years a new cable tray with isolators for each room / area / process fed. Then as each is available for outage tie in the new wiring. You may want to replace some breaker panels and have a redundant or switch-over to alternate power feed also.

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Active Contributor

Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 22
Good Answers: 1
#7
In reply to #3

Re: Request recommendations on testing efficacy of electrical power cable insula

04/08/2008 10:14 AM

I still use knob and tube wiring and am curious why you say it cannot be tested ?

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Guru

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
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#4

Re: Request recommendations on testing efficacy of electrical power cable insula

04/07/2008 11:48 PM

As has been suggested the way to test the integrity of cable insulation is to apply a high voltage to the wires and using a meter read for leakage. That is what is comprised in the "megger" mentioned above.

Nonetheless, I find that situation very interesting. If I read you right the outer most layer of the insulation on those wires, having been exposed to the Sun's UV for twenty years has deteriorated and peeled.

I gather you are the facilities maintenance technician. Megohm testing is really a simple affair which you could learn to do with a few minutes reading providing you already have the skills of an electrician.

Nonetheless, with that long exposure to the elements and the resultant peeling of the outer layer, my own response and keeping cost in mind as if I were doing the job, would simply be to start replacing the wiring, one unit at a time.

The problem with that as far as cost is you are talking about three thousand feet of wire, copper at that. You could of course switch to aluminum but that introduces its own problems, i.e. oxidation and electrolysis, which you can protect against, but also a tendency for connections to loosen over time because of dissimilar coefficients of expansion of dissimilar metals at the connection points.

I would opt for copper.

If you need to keep the plant running 24/7, and providing there is enough space at the connecting points, and providing you have enough understanding and technique, you ought to be able to do the job, one cable at a time, hot, i.e., without disconnecting from the operations requiring power or from the power source.

I would caution, and this is something you would have to decide for yourself, you can get seriously injured if you don't have the experience to do that and in that case I would call in outside electricians with that level of skill.

I have myself had on one occasion a need to replace an entire three phase distribution breaker panel and replace it with two such and along with the usual manufacturing equipment, keep a bank of main-frame computers on line. It can be done but be sure you know what you are doing and have the confidence to do it. No insult intended; just concern for your safety.

One issue I have not raised here is voltage drop over those long runs and the operating voltages. I am assuming that having run as long as they have that has not been a problem.

I would make one suggestion or really ask one question that might make a large difference in cost. Can you not get the power company to site poles and transformers closer to the points of use. After all you are talking about cable runs of almost a half mile.

Except for the fact that you mentioned roofs I would think those long runs were going down into some sort of mine or quarry.

And, because I am curious and I imagine others here are too, would you mind telling us just what this operation is?

j.

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Power-User

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: northeast florida
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#5

Re: Request recommendations on testing efficacy of electrical power cable insulation

04/08/2008 2:53 AM

Intresting situatiom you have there==One high voltage spike (lightning or prower grid) and you could be off the air for several days. With the variety of cables you described feeding the facility either you have multiple distribution points or you have had to supplement your facilities because of additional demands over the years.

Although no one here can really give you a definitive answer to your problem, for the lack of a schematic showing the actual layout of the distribution, there has been a couple of answers given which you should seriously consider.

1-Do nothing and cross your fingers.

2-Systematically replace sections (multiple cables indicate several distributions)

3-Approach your provider (after a recommendation by a commercial electrical company is secured) to have the power entrance moved much closer to the "point of use". as was already suggested. I'm really curious as to how the power company interfaces "meters" your facilities.

4-One possible answer or "fix" to your situation would be to have the trays opened, cables sectionalized by their respective "point of termination", insulated spacers installed between conductors and the entire tray filled with an insulating and heat transfer element to seal each conductor.(not sure what material would meet both requirements). The covers could then be replaced and you should have no further concerns on this issue.

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Guru

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Mumbai, India
Posts: 1983
Good Answers: 25
#6

Re: Request recommendations on testing efficacy of electrical power cable insulation

04/08/2008 7:23 AM

We here in India normaly do not lay cables externaly. We either lay them overhead in cable trays or in trenches which have removeable covers. If you have laid externaly then you should have selected cables suitable for external use like armoured cables or running through conduit pipes which protect the cables. Present installation is fire hazzard as any time if cable loose insulation and get exposed it can lead to fire. So giving consideration to Safety First kindly change the present system of laying cables.

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