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computers

04/14/2008 12:45 PM

I want to know if it is difficult to switch from windows to LINUX??????And if it takes a lot of research to learn how to use LINUX???

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#1

Re: computers

04/14/2008 6:32 PM

Does it take a lot of research to learn how to use Linux?

No. Not research. Practice.

Learning how to use Linux is a lot like learning how to ride a bicycle. But first you gotta have a bicycle. Books about bicycles won't help you learn how to ride a bicycle. They might help you pick one out or tell you where to find a good one. But the learning you gotta do on a real bike. And trust me, you'll fall off.

So it is with Linux. You ride it. When you fall off, you climb back on and try again. And again. And again. And you keep climbing back on until something clicks and you're suddenly able to pedal the damn thing up and down the block by yourself. Your fear silently disappears and you suddenly find yourself wondering how in the world you could have been afraid of something so simple...

After that you'll feel confident to try more things. Things like wheelies. Like riding with your hands in the air. You may even try jumping your bike off a ramp, just for fun. Fun: that's what Linux is about. Fun and freedom. Windows isn't about that. Not at all.

Windows is about profits and keeping customers perpetually in bondage to the whims of The Corporation. Windows is certainly not free. And even after you pay, they still own the software. It says so right in their EULA. I dunno. Using Windows (Vista, especially) looks to me like trying to pedal a 67-ton M1A1 Abrams tank programmed to turn at right angles to wherever you wanna go. One good thing I can say about Windows: it inspired me to learn Linux!


See ya at the half-pipe!

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#2
In reply to #1

Re: computers

04/15/2008 12:53 AM

And so you say you did it your way... that's cool, I just use em and windows is going my way.

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#3
In reply to #1

Re: computers

04/15/2008 2:42 AM

Thanx for helping out!!But is it possible to get a bootebel CD to try out LINUX?Due to that I am not good with computers but is willing to learn!!

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#5
In reply to #1

Re: computers

04/15/2008 5:22 AM

Yep. It's more difficult to fall off the windows bike, but, when you fall off the Linux bike it never breaks: you can always get back on and try again; when you fall off the windows bike: it just seems to disappear in a puff of smoke.

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#13
In reply to #5

Re: computers

04/15/2008 2:15 PM

Thanx for the help!!!!!but I am still waiting for my life CD from my friend!!!

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#6
In reply to #1

Re: computers

04/15/2008 7:50 AM

Sounds good, but can Linux ran the same programs windows does? Or do you have to

buy Linux based programs? Can you have the two systems loaded in your computer?

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#14
In reply to #6

Re: computers

04/15/2008 2:28 PM

"you have to

DOWNELOAD Linux based programs? Can you have the two systems loaded in your computer?"Yes the few info that I got so far is that widows programs do not work on LINUX you should get the programs from the web!!!SO CAN SOMEONE PLEAS HELP US WITH A WEB TO SET SOME PROGRAMS TO START WITH PLEAS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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#16
In reply to #14

Re: computers

04/15/2008 6:51 PM

Go to ubuntu.com for Linux, then to sourceforge.net for Open Source Software. Ubuntu comes with Open Office, which includes a word processor, presentation software (like PowerPoint), spreadsheet, data base, video, sound, etc. That will get you started.

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#29
In reply to #16

Re: computers

04/16/2008 8:57 AM

thanx man I will go and have a look at that website!!!!!!!

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#34
In reply to #16

Re: computers

04/16/2008 9:15 AM

if I already got my linux from ubuntu and a new version on ubuntu is it possibel to use my old programs from previous versions

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#38
In reply to #34

Re: computers

04/16/2008 9:22 AM

Yes.

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#63
In reply to #14

Re: computers

04/21/2008 4:56 PM

"Can you have the two systems loaded in your computer?"

Yes. You can have two or even more on your computer. The limiting factor here is the size of each operating system (Windows, Linux, BeOS, QNX, VxWorks, TinyLinux, ...), plus how much disc space the OS needs worst-case, plus the sizes of any data-only partitions you want to create versus your hard drive's capacity. Of course, you can install multiple hard drives if you're really hardcore, but we're getting a bit ahead of ourselves...

I develop Linux software, and so I have several OSes on my system: Red Hat Enterprise Linux (RHEL), Kubuntu 7.10, MontaVista (for embedded DSP/ARM development), BlueCat 5.4, BlueCat 5.5, plus their debug versions. These are distributed among several hard drives totalling a shade over 2 TiB (about 2.3 terabytes, more or less). The OSes themselves don't need all this space, of course, but I do embedded video development and video does take up a lot of space!

So, to answer your question: yes.

----

Windows programs do not run natively on Linux. Windows apps and Linux apps are two totally different animals. There are Linux apps, however, that run Windows (the OS plus + its apps) as an application, with varying degrees of success. For now, though, get comfortable with installing and running Linux.

If you want applications for Linux, you're in for a treat. There's a lot of Good Stuff out there, and much of it is free. Once you've installed Kubuntu (if that's the one you want), take a look at some of the applications that come with it. One of them, called 'apt-get', helps you locate and download other linux applications (including updates to 'apt-get'). The last time I ran apt-get, I saw that there were well over twenty-six thousand Linux applications available for download. There are more, of course, but perusing 26,000 apps should keep you busy for awhile, yes?

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#56
In reply to #1

Re: computers

04/19/2008 8:37 PM

I agree. I have recently switched to Linux on one desktop computer while maintaining Windows XP on the other. I have had minimal problems with the learning curve for Mandriva software, but my problem is finding adequate sources of books, so it becomes a question of just going to the on-line help section. It does take some time, but then learning Windows did too. Windows keeps changing to add more bloatware too, so it's not a big deal from the standpoint of time expenditure. Guaranteed that my next machine (laptop) will be using Linux.

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#4

Re: computers

04/15/2008 4:10 AM

Its fairly simple. One of the latest compilations is ubuntu. Its a pretty straightforward installation. It would be advisable to have min 512 gig ram. It supports sata drives,usb and most peripherals and best of all its free. www.ubuntu.com. There are two versions to download workstation or server. Save the download, cut to disk if u want and run it. It will prompt you during setup for settings. You cant really go wrong. Have fun, theres plenty support out there

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#20
In reply to #4

Re: computers

04/16/2008 3:14 AM

Madness!I have a problem,my PC is only 265MB ram is it still possible to run a life CD of LINUX????

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#21
In reply to #20

Re: computers

04/16/2008 3:59 AM

It is advisable to upgrade, the consequence will be it will run slow and may even halt running one of the gui's (graphical user interface)

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#23
In reply to #21

Re: computers

04/16/2008 4:35 AM

So it wont matter if I use my current ram!!but I will save some money and upgrade my PC!!

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#32
In reply to #23

Re: computers

04/16/2008 9:09 AM

So it wont matter if I use my current ram!!but I will save some money and upgrade my PC!!

Yes it will matter if you use your current ram; you will continue to have similar problems no matter what you try, 256MB ram isn't applicable any more. In order to be compliant or have freedom of access now you need a minimum 2GB ram.

You will save some money upgrading your PC if you keep windows; you'll not need repurchase software.

If you are accustomed to windows (windows is light years ahead of Linux) you'll have a steep learning curve no matter how much sweetener they add. The new Linux platforms are mimicking windows anyway and the new Vista is splendid for general computing using XP software too. The new 64bit is backward compatible so you can run older and 32bit programs on it seamlessly, with exception some 32bit applications do not run on 64bit systems due to their specific programing and these will have that noted in large print.

I am of opinion we design machines to do the work for us and Linux isn't in that category.

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#36
In reply to #32

Re: computers

04/16/2008 9:20 AM

I am still stuck in Windows 98SE- I have a lot of legacy equipment (test equipment) that uses RS-232 interfacing that functions just fine. Of course the manufacturers are not interested in upgrading drivers for old equipment, and some of it won't even work properly in Windows XP. Another thing I have noticed, not only with the operating system, but with the office suite as well, each Microsoft upgrade results in slower performance. It takes me significantly longer to do something simple, like write a memo or plot some data, in Office 2003 than in Office 2000. Furthermore, Microsoft has this bad habit of "updating" my computer without explaining why, and I have found that some of the updates actually render some software non-functional, and I have to then go through the process of figuring out what they did to my system to work around this. That is why only one of my computers goes on line- one that is used for basically nothing else, while my real systems are maintained isolated from the web. I want a stable system. By stable system, I mean one that behaves the same each time I boot it up.
I am convinced that Microsoft is totally out of touch with how people use computers. Actually, I think most software developers are (see the blog on feature creep...)

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#41
In reply to #36

Re: computers

04/16/2008 9:55 AM

Refer to post #40

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#48
In reply to #36

Re: computers

04/16/2008 12:34 PM

"I am convinced that Microsoft is totally out of touch with how people use computers. Actually, I think most software developers are"

CONCUR!!! In spades! But they call it an "undocumented feature"...

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#37
In reply to #32

Re: computers

04/16/2008 9:22 AM

thanx man Ive found out that to upgrade my PC to a bigger ram will take me at leas one year to save and then buy it

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#64
In reply to #32

Re: computers

04/21/2008 9:31 PM

Yeh! Vista is so splendid that Microsoft has now decided that they will again supply Windows XP for Dell and other computers (until at least 2010) now that the new Linux software has threatened to take away Windows market share.

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#65
In reply to #32

Re: computers

04/21/2008 11:55 PM

"Yes it will matter if you use your current ram; you will continue to have similar problems no matter what you try, 256MB ram isn't applicable any more."

I couldn't agree more. 256 MiB is too little RAM even when running XP. The system crawls along at a snail's pace no matter how much horsepower you have under the hood. And for good reason: thrashing.

Windows (and every other modern operating system worth its salt) implements - with help from the hardware - a kind of sleight-of-hand called Virtual Memory. Each application - each process - running on the system runs in its own address space - or so it thinks. And, as far as the process knows, it is the only one running. It 'owns' all of memory. Not only, but the OS fools it into thinking that every single memory address in that space is backed by real RAM. Most times this couldn't be further from the truth. And no process ever owns the entire (physical) address space. More like a small - even tiny - portion of it, and only at certain times.

In order to maintain this illusion, this lie, the OS - with help from the MMU (the memory management unit) - divvies-up the physical memory into 'pages' which are distributed among the different running processes. When a page hasn't been used for awhile, the MMU will copy the page's contents to the hard drive, and swap in new content - possibly executable code belonging to a freshly-spawned process. Not all of available RAM is partitioned in this way, but enough swap space should be available to the OS to allow all running processes to execute with as few swaps as possible. Disk accesses are orders of magnitude slower than RAM accesses, and so the OS tries to keep disk activity at a minimum, if possible. And it can, provided there is enough physical RAM available.

If there isn't - and you'll see this if you run XP on a 256 MiB system - the OS spends a large chunk of time swapping pages back and forth between RAM and the hard drive. Not only will everything run slow, but you'll notice that the hard drive is constantly busy, even when you're 'not doing anything' on the computer. The system is thrashing, and the only way to fix it is to install more RAM.

Some folks I know have purchased cutting-edge computers with dual-core CPUs, ass-kicking video boards with the latest 3D accelerators, 7.1 Dolby - the works - and then skimped on RAM. "It's just memory," they say. To which I reply, "Kinda like a jam-packed, bumper-to-bumper highway at Rush Hour is 'just a road'?"

Don't skimp on memory! Ever. Buy as much as you can afford, plus some. If at all possible, fully populate your system RAM. Only then consider getting that Ferrari CPU. Without enough memory, your Ferrari might as well be a bicycle.

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#76
In reply to #65

Re: computers

04/27/2008 11:28 PM

not buy as much as you can afford, but the limitation is buy as much as the OS can handle.

XP-32 >3.6G is a waste, settel for 4G as 3.6G is hard to insert

XP-64 can utilise 4G, but not all the 32-bit programs

not 100% sure if Vista can utilise >3.6G

Linux 32 & 64 bit can utilise >3.6G (I'm running Linux 2.6.25 on a 4G system at home, and it uses it....)

So, "If your mobo can handle it and you can afford" and slapping in 4x2G or 4x4G DDR2's will be worthless if the OS cannot utilise it

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#7

Re: computers

04/15/2008 8:06 AM

It is very easy but there is not many programs for Linux if you are into CAD. I understand the newest version will allow you to run in Windows.

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#8

Re: computers

04/15/2008 8:41 AM

Don't listen to the computer weenies that tell you that LINUX will solve all your problems. They are just a splinter group of the anti-Microsoft crazies. LINUX is just a pile of obscure commands similar to the old DOS system which handicapped PC on their introduction. Changing back to that mess is a giant step backwards. If you can't get your PC to behave using Windows, you will only create a major mess out of it with LINUX. Just buy a good Windows book and learn how to make it behave with that.

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#10
In reply to #8

Re: computers

04/15/2008 10:18 AM

While the Linux champions are, as you note, a splinter group, I must take exception to your assessment that Linux is a giant step backwards. For me, Windows is degenerating, each new version resulting in decreasing performance (i.e., it takes me longer to do the same work on Windows XP than it takes on Windows 98 SE). My experience goes back to the days of the old original Unix, and Unix has always been, in my opinion, far superior to DOS. DOS stands for "disk operating system". Unix was designed to give better access to the rest of the computer.

I am switching to DOS because Microsoft is not interested in providing me a system that meets my needs. I have more control over my computer using Linux than I do using Windows. It is not a painless transition by a long shot, and I expect it to take about two years before I get everything working the way I want it to. Meanwhile, I am keeping my old Windows 98SE machine in top shape- it is the only one that isn't a "mess" because of all the garbage Microsoft thinks I want instead of the features I really need.

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#15
In reply to #10

Re: computers

04/15/2008 2:34 PM

Windows have some good stufe on it but yea it does not always give the things we want to use that whey I want to learn how to use LINUX

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#11
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Re: computers

04/15/2008 12:10 PM

I have often wanted to run Linux, but so far haven't been able to afford a second computer to run it on. I do, however, disagree completely with your priase for Windows (any version) and all else from MiniSquishy. If the folks who program in all of the C$!% they think I need/want would not do that, it would work better, but still be out of step with reality.

The reason? The people who create it only do that, they never are forced to use their own product. If they were, they'd see how wron it is and change it in a heartbeat! I refuse to believe they actually "use" (if that's the right term) Word, Excel, or any of their other own products there in the home offices. How could they? Or maybe they do, and that's why they can't get it right...not if they think that stuff is actually 'good'...

OK, rant over...

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#12
In reply to #11

Re: computers

04/15/2008 12:35 PM

Wait a minute, Enviroman- Excel 2000 is the best application, bar none, that has ever been created for doing useful work. OK, by Excel 2003 they lost that distinction, and I am not even interested in the 2007 version. Not all that Microsoft has wrought is useless...

One of my main justifications for transitioning away from Windows is that I want to continue using Microsoft Excel 2000...

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#22
In reply to #12

Re: computers

04/16/2008 4:21 AM

I couldn't agree more. I wish I could say that the open office spread sheet was as good as Excel but it's not. What never fails to astonish me is that probably the most used software on the planet (word) is also the worst: every word processor I've used leaves it in the dust. One way to demonstrate just how bad it is: is to try drawing something in word: just keep going till it falls over (thinks it knows better than you where to put something): now draw the same thing using ostensibly exactly the same interface in Excel: it just works properly. Of course this is not a basic function of Excel (or even necessary), it just demonstrates that the people who write the software for Excel are much better than the ones who write word.

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#25
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Re: computers

04/16/2008 7:58 AM

Another example - I translate documents a lot. One of my training handouts - only 9 pages, so shouldn't have been a big deal, right? - I needed in Spanish from English. On about page 4, Word told me "there are too many editing changes for Word to support, this document will now close" (or something to that effect) and now I cannot make any changes to that document! I can't even cut-and-past successfully from it anymore! It's just - locked - up...

I've had similar things happen before within one language in documents that required much internal re-formatting. What kind of idiot would plan to do that on purpose? Right - nobody! Therefore, the code writer(s) didn't even foresee something like this happening. And I'm to trust them? Not hardly!

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#35
In reply to #25

Re: computers

04/16/2008 9:17 AM

now I cannot make any changes to that document! I can't even cut-and-past successfully from it anymore! It's just - locked - up...

Yes you can...open the file prior to the event and continue.

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#46
In reply to #35

Re: computers

04/16/2008 12:28 PM

Not without a time machine, there IS no file prior to the event (I always thought it was a GOOD idea to save frequently so I didn't lose any changes...)!

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#27
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Re: computers

04/16/2008 8:26 AM

I also have problems with Open Office and Lotus Symphony word processors thinking they know more about how I want the final product to look. In older versions of MS Word (i.e., 2000), I have, over time, figured out how to get things to stay put, but it is not trivial. What word processor do you use?

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#30
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Re: computers

04/16/2008 9:00 AM

What word processor do you use?

Open Office, and, export as pdf: for all my reports and stuff. I still have to use TUWORD for official company product documentation.

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#31
In reply to #30

Re: computers

04/16/2008 9:08 AM

So you don't have trouble with graphics, tables and such jumping all over the place in Open Office? I have tried sorting out the anchoring features, but they are not intuitive...Any suggestions?

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#39
In reply to #31

Re: computers

04/16/2008 9:41 AM

Hmmm. Yes I suppose I do have those problems, but, they're always easy to fix. I nearly always have at least one line of text between each other item (unless i have two pictures side by side), I suspect that helps a bit.

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#42
In reply to #39

Re: computers

04/16/2008 10:03 AM

THAT may be a significant clue- thank you. I sometimes have a series of graphics inter-related, without text between. I will have to try this...

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#47
In reply to #42

Re: computers

04/16/2008 12:31 PM

Even if all you add is a hard break (Enter key) it might be enough...

"Press any key to continue. This is located between the Emm-y key and the Bee-y key on the bottom row of your keyboard..."

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#49
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Re: computers

04/16/2008 12:41 PM

Worst case I use Quick view to open it then paste into usable file.

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#50
In reply to #49

Re: computers

04/16/2008 12:50 PM

If the software was better, we wouldn't need so many work-arounds, would we?

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#52
In reply to #50

Re: computers

04/16/2008 8:28 PM

Be careful where you use bwire it will freeze some programs (:

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#33
In reply to #22

Re: computers

04/16/2008 9:14 AM

I though drawing in word was a game, us against them, man against machine. Now that I am enlightened the fun is gone...

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#24
In reply to #12

Re: computers

04/16/2008 7:42 AM

OK, it hasn't all been useless. I don't object to damning by faint praise where appropriate! Some of it has actually been useful. But overall, their products suffer from a false sense of superiority, and lacking significant competition, will likely never improve to a degree I would find acceptable. I do use their products. Why? Because they are forced upon the world through lack of choices. Don't mean I gotta like it, tho'... [grump, grump, gripe, blankety-blank...]

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#55
In reply to #8

Re: computers - choices, choices...

04/19/2008 7:54 PM

Or open Windows (NT versions) Help and Support, and ask it to teach you its own DOS command vocabulary and syntax; and how to operate your Windows OS (without Windows overlay) using primary commands--just like Linux, Unix,...., that rely on command inputs in their own vocabularies and syntax. If an NT version of Windows was your first exposure to operating systems, you will at least get some "feel" for what you're up against. ...point being...Window's is extremely complex (and memory/storage voracious) in order for it to be comparatively simple/adaptable...for all tastes and aptitudes.

The point about a good book—this means, not an inexpensive book—not a "for idiot's" book—is a very good one; the same would be good advise with the other OS.

...but computer weenies have been there, done that; so their thoughts are well worth noting, even if not necessarily to be acted upon. The more essential point has more to do with what's called the "make or buy" decision; and that depends on who you are and what you need; and what you can reasonably expect to get from a computer. Are you a "business" (where speed/power is paramount but extent & variety of task requirements are limited over time)? Or an advanced software developer? Or programmer? In which case Linux might better fit your software needs? Or, are you an individual user with limited expertise expecting a great variety of task (and play) capabilities and "bells and whistles"? ...who prefers to point and click? ...in which case availability of OTS (off-the-shelf) consumer software might be important? To decide..., it might (in addition to noting "weenie pronouncements") be the better part of wisdom to follow the dictum of the big computing firms, which, since the heyday of Big Blue, has always been, that "buy, don't make, whenever possible" is invariably the best (the least expensive and most most productive) choice.

Does this mean not to give Linux a look? Even though it might prove not to be a good fit for your situation and preferences? Or would not provide as large a choice of application software products...and compatibilities? No...and, in fact, you could even have both, Windows and Linux, on your machine (if you're willing to reformat, partition, and install both on your hard disc), or on your network. Or, installing Linux on a second computer (e.g., a good, inexpensive, newly-purchased used computer) is an approach that would entail minimal risk, both cost-wise and otherwise.

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#61
In reply to #55

Re: computers - choices, choices...

04/21/2008 12:44 PM

Thanx man I will go and have a look on my windows XP learn me some vocabulary for DOS!!!!!

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#66
In reply to #8

Re: computers

04/22/2008 12:36 AM

Check your cell phone: it might be running Linux.

And that WiFi router you just bought? Linux.

Your iPod? iTouch? iPhone? A linux/unix variant.

That sweet little Mac Mini you just bought? The one running OS-X Leopard? Another linux/unix variant.

The vast majority of mission-critical systems whose failure would guarantee loss of life and property? Linux. Why? Because Linux is reliable. Windows isn't.

The top 500 fastest supercomputers on Earth - all of them, including IBM's Blue Gene (running at nearly 800 trillion floating-point operations per second)? You got it: Linux.

Check your ISP. There's a good chance they're running Apache. Under Linux, of course.

Heck, maybe CR4 is running Apache, too! Tomorrow let's check with the Architect (CR4 Member #1).

And that's just for starters. I could go on. And on. And...

Not bad for something that represents a "giant step backwards," non? Especially one championed by a splintered group of Neo-Luddites living on the Lunatic Fringe?

Windows is losing market share, by and by, to Linux. Might it just be possible that those lunatics know something you clearly don't?

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#67
In reply to #66

Re: computers

04/22/2008 7:50 AM

Apart from devoted MiniSquishy advocates, and a few hard-core Apple addicts, I've never heard anything bad about Linux, and desire to try/learn it. From what I read here, which is quite the education, it needs to happen sooner rather than later.

Thanks, Eu (and other contributors), all this info is MUCH appreciated!

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#78
In reply to #66

Re: computers

05/14/2008 10:26 PM

"The vast majority of mission-critical systems whose failure would guarantee loss of life and property? Linux"

- Except for military owned critical application, which are hand-tailored compiled and debugged in "CPU-specific assembly".

This basically means that for critical applications, each application has its own Hard-Soft Integration, namely, it's own individual Operating System.

Why do you guys think the Pentagon would report paying 500 bucks for a hand- held hammer?

- Y.

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#79
In reply to #78

Re: computers

05/15/2008 11:24 PM

Or a small company in the states can charge a couple of grand for a washer that gets shipped around the world?

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#80
In reply to #78

Re: computers

05/17/2008 11:27 AM

- Except for military owned critical application, which are hand-tailored compiled and debugged in "CPU-specific assembly".

----

"Except for..."?

The vast bulk of my company's products are used in Mission Critical applications (most of them military), and all of them run a commercially-available, embedded, hard-real-time version of Linux.

"...which are hand-tailored compiled and debugged in "CPU-specific assembly".

That Linux can be hand-tailored for a specific piece of hardware is precisely why we use Linux! Linux is open-source; that means you can tailor any part of it to do anything you want and exclude those parts of it you don't need. Because Linux is so mutable, you'll find it on everything from single-chip instrument controllers in fighter aircraft to massively-parallel computing superclusters pushing nearly 1000 teraflops (the IBM BlueGene series, for example).

And yes, our products are expensive. You get what you pay for.

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#9

Re: computers

04/15/2008 10:10 AM

I recently loaded Ubuntu 7.10 on one of my computers from a CD I made from a downloaded image, in a dual boot configuration, so I still have Windows XP on the same configuration. In my opinion, the key is not the operating system, it is the applications you want to run. Unfortunately, more and more of the legacy applications I prefer will not run on newer versions of Windows, and each new upgrade of Windows is slower than the last.

Today, with the graphical interfaces, there is not much difference between Windows and Linux functionality. The main difference is the accessability of the command line interface (what we old-timers used to do with the DOS command line). This is where the real power of the Linux system comes in, where you can actually regain control of your computer.

With regards to applications, I have high hopes for a couple of virtualization packages that will allow me to continue using my legacy software (CAD, data analysis, SPICE modeling, etc.- especially my old RS-232 serial interfacing to legacy test equipment). These include VMWare, BOCHS, Wine, and a new one I have'nt had much chance to try called VirtualBox (recommended by someone else here on CR4).

A complete conversion to Linux will take me about 2 years- not learning the system, but getting the system to function the way my Old Windows 98 SE system functions, with the same productivity (or better).

A major concern is what you want to do with your computer. If you are primarily interested in surfing the web, you will probably find Linux better than Windows (I also recently switched from MS Internet Explorer to Firefox on my Internet machine, running Windows XP, and found an immediate, noticable speed increase, without modifying my connection scheme). If you want to play games, I think Linux offers a better option because of lower overhead (i.e., stuff that runs in the background and consumes computer resources). However, if you want to do some serious work, it is going to take some time getting a system put together that is functional, because of the situation with applications.

As I have done, it is very easy to set up a dual boot system (Windows on one partition, Linux on another) so that you do not lose the utility of your computer while learning a new system.

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#18
In reply to #9

Re: computers

04/16/2008 12:42 AM

You've miss place the key elements needed to effectively use the newer windows OS.

#1 fast processors, don't stop at core 2 duo go for the gusto a dual quad core or better

#2 huge memory resources 8GB+ preferably 12-16GB run three or four HD for boosted virtual memory

#3 master/slave graphic cards

or stay on the porch...

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#19
In reply to #18

Re: computers

04/16/2008 1:18 AM

#1 most of windoze software isn't utilized for multi-cores, so they will run 100% on 1 core only

#2 unless your running 64bit or better, buy 4G any more and the OS doesn't see it, unless they fixed it in Vista.

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#28
In reply to #19

Re: computers

04/16/2008 8:50 AM

Yeper you missed the key, one of the great things about the multi core machines is you can assign certain tasks to a specific core or cores depending on resource intensity. So yes in effect you can run them on a single core within the dual core playing field but do so simultaneously with many other tasks without sacrificing speed or having conflicts.

x64 is not suitable for some programs new and or older such as some audio or media applications but a multiple core infrastructure is boon to these efforts. When you can simultaneously render large video files, mix down a full orchestra and broadcast the sum of the two real time with say 10ms delay and still have a game or two running on an additional core; just try that with a single core machine.

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#51
In reply to #28

Re: computers

04/16/2008 7:10 PM

I'd love to, but I don't have any single cores left at home.

and the single core Pentium 1.4G (pre-HT) is the Solidworks CAD station F'N slow... takes less time to drive home, collect the QC, drive back, connect to network, open model, do mods... than it takes to finish opening the model on the P4

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#53
In reply to #51

Re: computers

04/16/2008 8:30 PM

What? You need a tech make over ha!

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#26
In reply to #18

Re: computers

04/16/2008 8:23 AM

Or abandon Windows completely for something that actually works...

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#40
In reply to #9

Re: computers

04/16/2008 9:44 AM

cwarner7_11,

I puzzled why you are having these type conflicts or problems and I'm not.

What machine are you not able to run your prized applications on? The first x64bit was not capable of running programs other than those x64bit designed for it, however subsequent 64bit machines are backward compatible and will support 32bit applications also without a glitch.

I've heard some complaining of having to up grade to a new more powerful machine to use the newer windows programs. Yes that is the state of being what is; fact. Windows 2000 and older are useless except to continue doing the tasks they were originally designed to do, but no support nor will they even connect to the some current systems; you can't get here from there.

The newer intense graphics in the newer programs is what is mostly to blame for slowing the older machine and windows programs; you got to get ahead a little before you can relax if you're not changing you're aging.

I'm using a 6.8GHz dual core using Vista and Office 2007 and I need add another GB ram but it's just a small unit I got for my wife to use as she goes to nursing school, was $319 for tower keyboard and mouse a refurbished business machine.

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#43
In reply to #40

Re: computers

04/16/2008 10:14 AM

CWARNER7_11 in Namibia you will not find 1GB ram for under N$1200.00.If you find it,it is probably f***up

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#44
In reply to #40

Re: computers

04/16/2008 10:26 AM

Interestingly, some of my older applications seem to run faster on Linux on the same platform than they do in Windows...And that is when using Wine, which is some sort of Windows emulator or clone, not a full virtualization. I am experimenting with other virtualization options as well.

I do not need all of those fancy graphics- I use my computers to accomplish specific tasks. I am not averse to upgrading per se, but you have to tell me what benefits I can achieve with new technology. The primary benefit is saving time. An upgrade that requires more time to accomplish the same task on the same equipment is not an upgrade. One of my complaints about Linux is that they are hung up on this "me, too" complex in competing with Microsoft, when they would be better off focusing on things Microsoft does not do well (as Apple appears to be doing finally). From the old days, I am convinced that Unix is inherently faster than DOS or it's derivatives, and it is much easier to communicate with other equipment (i.e., writing to a COM port in Unix is exactly the same as writing to a file). It is also much easier to get down to the heart of the machine when I need to speed things up (i.e., use command line instead of GUI). I have had some success with accomplishing this writing in c on my Microsoft boxes (c, not c++. c++ is far too complicated for what I am doing). I have also found Forth to be really good for this on my Windows boxes.


Essentially, I do not have the need for faster hardware- I know the capabilities are there. I actually once had a box running Unix (back in the 1980's, when Unix was thought by the mainstream to be too big for a PC), running on a Motorola 64000 (ultimately upgraded to a 64004) that could run circles around anything based on DOS, and was pretty good at "multitasking". Moving to Microsoft (solely for access to Excel) cost me significant productivity. I also prefer having multiple computers for multitasking- trying to everything from one box is silly, considering how cheap hardware is these days (my earlier box actually cost more than the automobile I was driving in those days). A major problem I face, though, is finding hardware that still has the capabilities on which I depend (i.e., RS-232 and the parallel port). Yes, there are USB adapters out there, and I use some for some applications, but this adds to the overhead (again, TIME is the issue, not $).

If all I were doing was surfing the web, or writing letters, or running my accounting software, the operating system would be insignificant. There are special boxes out there that are configured especially for games- with a lot of features I don't need. Meanwhile, I find Windows 98 SE to be far superior to Windows XP or Windows Vista for my applications, even running on older, "slower" hardware...

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#45
In reply to #44

Re: computers

04/16/2008 11:08 AM

I can see your point and I find your approach useful but I use the single and dual quad cores in much the same way as you do with multiple singles by assigning individual cores to specific tasks but I enjoy the convenience of being all in one box. I do also use RS-232 an parallel ports and didn't realized their use was prohibited on newer machines.

I do some audio/video stuff and use RS-232 instead of wireless because wires are cheap and less RF is simpler.

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#17

Re: computers

04/15/2008 8:42 PM

buy another HD, leave Windows as HD1, and install Linux on HD2, if you totally F' things up, reformat and start again.

No need to re-auth the software, if you want to move Linux to a new computer, just pull the HD and insert into another, and feel the happiness that you don't have to re-authorise the software just cause you wanted to upgrade your computer.

Multi-booting, you have Grub or Lilo, I switched from Lilo (Linux Loader) when they started having problems with BIG disc's, but I hear that could be solved by now.

I have Linux multi-boot with windoze, select Linux or Windoze from the Grub menu screen, if I select Windoze, I can then select on the Windoze boot screen either XP or Xp-64 (XP has a problem with memory > 3G, cannot see it) Linux 32-bit can see memory > 4G

Linux comes in as many flavours just the same as Windoze, just not the colourful packaging to entice you to buy it.

Not all hardware will run on Linux (just yet) Manufacturers releasing drivers are a problem

Not all hardware will run on Windoze, same problem about drivers. and Vista is better than Linux in this case?

Not all software will run on Linux, but you have VMWare and other emulators that will run some Windows software, not all software will run in the emulators either.

Not all software will run on Windoze, same again, you have VMWare that will run Linux, and X-server packages, almost 100% of Linux software can run this way (I do this for work)

Support? Windows servers, you *can* pay for support, and its NOT cheap

Linux servers, you *can* pay for support.

Whats the difference between Windows and Linux?

Linux, designed on the Unix platform, not as easy to learn, but its a challenge,

Windows "claims" that Their software is now more secure than Linux, a bit hard to believe seeing as that many modems (DSL/Cable) and hardware firewalls run something like hardened or SElinux but in a smaller memory package

Linux is designed to run on anything from a 486 (386 still I think) and up, you choose the configurations and options to run that software, not everything will run on a 486

Windows is designed to run on the *Latest and Greatest* systems with a full load of RAM and top of the range video cards, yes it can run on lower spec systems, but there is a lot of windows based programs that get installed during the install process that you will have to unload later if you want to get your computer to speed up.

I run Gentoo Linux (not really recommended if your a beginner, unless you want to have a BIG challenge) I started with RedHat wayyy back in the 1.0.36 days or so, with Windows, it was booting windows from DOS-V2 c:\win (1986) that was something like Windows Version 1.2 or 1.4, on 5-1/4 inch floppies

Gentoo is for everything, Windows XP is for some games, and XP-64 is for SolidWorks2008 (Licenced copy) and beta testing of SW

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#57
In reply to #17

Re: computers

04/20/2008 4:00 AM

One proviso about segregating operating systems between hard discs. If WindowsXP is installed, say, on C:, and if MS office is also installed, then during Office installation the large MicroSoftOffice Cache (MSOCache) folder will always be installed on the disc with the greatest available free space...as often as not on D:. There is nothing that can prevent this...other than disabling the D: drive prior to Office Installation; or deleting MSO Cache (off of D:) and running Office without it.

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#58
In reply to #57

Re: computers

04/21/2008 3:41 AM

So, your trying to say, windoze will reformat the 2nd HD?

Cause I know the filesystem on the 2nd HD will not be NTFS, and I'm sure you'll not be running the lower performance file systems.

And from my system, with 40G available for Windows XP and the rest of the 160G HD which is formatted in reiserfs, Windoze didn't touch it, or is your system setup different?

My system has a range of reiserfs, ext2, ext3 partitions, and I'm looking at some of the clustering filesystems to play with at the moment.

I do know that Windoze doesn't like being installed on non "C:" but you can get it to install outside that location, linux doesn't care where its installed, as long as it can modify the MBR, Windows trashes the MBR and installs its own boot software there, at least Linux is more friendly, and without modifying the Windows bootup, you can install Grub on the MBR, write the /boot/grub/grub.conf file to point to the Windoze disk, and they will boot as if nothing has happened.

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#69
In reply to #58

Re: computers

04/23/2008 3:16 AM

My comment was with reference to MS Office, not Windows. I should have given more detail. I was envisioning (based on preceding and various other posts), in order to install a second operating system on one machine, that after partitioning the C: disc (in the case of single HDD machine) a person might need to reinstall Office in the Windows OS partition. Or that, in order to format and/or partition and install second OS on an onboard D: disc (on which MSOcache) had previously been written...and needed to be reinstalled along with MSOffice. The point is, that whenever installing Office, when it comes time to install Office's folder called MSOcache, the installer will look for and only install MSOcache in the largest available disc space. Depending on one's computer...that could entail MSOcache being installed:

  • With Office on C:...if that is the only logical drive (as commonly the case with NTFS formatted disc).
  • On a different partition (than Office) on C:...if that partition's available space is greater
  • One a second, onboard unpartitioned (D:) disc...if that disc's available space is greater than C:
  • On any partition (logical D:, E:, ...or etc.) of onboard second (etc) HDD, which has greatest available space, if not C:

My system has two internal HDD (RAID capable but I'm not set up that way) where D: is larger and largely unused (except for MSOcache). Because I needed to reinstall Windows, I first wanted to know from Microsoft why MSO cache was on D:, and would I be able to install it with MSOffice on C: (the idea being: I wanted to be able to shut down D: to save on power consumption and avoid purposeless wear and tear on the second drive). It was Microsoft who told me ("Sorry,...") that MSOcache will always be installed on drive/partition with greatest available space...and that there is no normal work-around for this—no user intervention to determine MSOcache folder writing location. (My previous post alluded to what I believe would be an abnormal workaround, either: making D: [or other logical larger drive] "invisible" to Office installer by disabling it in Device Manager in the Control Panel; or deleting the MSO folder after it has installed and running Office without it.) Of course, the information I gave might not apply, but if a person has Office it could be something that could come up as an issue...so is worth knowing about.

Let me know if this clarifies...or not.

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#70
In reply to #69

Re: computers

04/23/2008 9:51 AM

"It was Microsoft who told me ("Sorry,...") that MSOcache will always be installed on drive/partition with greatest available space...and that there is no normal work-around for this—no user intervention to determine MSOcache folder writing location."

Yet another "undocumented feature" from MiniSquishy!

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#71
In reply to #70

Re: computers

04/23/2008 5:28 PM

I take that to mean "undocumented" "non-feature."

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#74
In reply to #71

Re: computers

04/24/2008 11:12 AM

A mistake is a mistake is a mistake, and a mistake by any other name still stinks as bad.

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#54

Re: computers

04/19/2008 5:04 PM

Hi Phantomxxx,

Here's a step-by-step guide to getting Kubuntu Linux. Kubuntu is a popular version of Ubuntu Linux. The 'K' in the name derives from Ubuntu plus the KDE desktop => Kubuntu, one of the two most popular Linux desktops around. (The other desktop being Gnome.)

Kubuntu is a live CD; that is, you can boot your computer directly from the Kubuntu CD without actually having to first install Kubuntu on your computer. There's a definite advantage in doing this because it lets you "try before you buy" (but you don't actually buy Kubuntu. It's free). If you decide you don't like Kubuntu, you can toss it out without having altered your computer in any way. Try that with Windows!

Ready to go?

Step 1. Start up your favorite browser and google kubuntu ...

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Step 2. Click on Kubuntu - Download . This will lead you to Kubuntu's download page, as shown here:

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Step 3. Before proceeding further, scroll down their page until you see the link: the burning ISO howto shown below at the bottom of the pic. Click on this link and it will take you...

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Step 4. ...here. Bookmark this page. That's all! Then click your browser's go-back-one-page button. You'll return to this page in a moment.

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Step 5. Select the download location (a so-called "mirror") nearest you. If you live in the United States or Canada, select North America

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Step 6. Select a specific site; preferably one closest to you.

Let's illustrate by assuming you live on the US East Coast, somewhere near Boston. Probably for you the most reasonable choice, then, would be the mirror at MIT's Media Lab. Assuming this is the case, find the United States MIT Media Lab (North America) link and click on it. This will take you to their server's download directory. This page looks a bit confusing, I'll admit, but take heart! Most of the stuff you see here won't apply to you.

One thing you'll need to know first is the type of processor your computer is based on (your choices here are limited to the Intel 32-bit [i386] processor or the AMD 64-bit CPU. If your computer is a vintage CP/M InterTec SuperBrain [be still my heart!], you'll not find anything here written to run on a pair of Z-80s. Tough buns, Ace!). But you need to know the kind of CPU you have in order to select the ISO file appropriate for your machine's architecture. This is important.

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Step 7. Assuming your computer has an Intel Inside™, select kubuntu-7.10-desktop-i386-iso. Your browser will ask you where to save the file. If your browser automatically saves downloads without asking first, make sure you know where that location is (or you can change it and your browser's 'save' behavior in its Preferences or equivalent menu). Mine puts my downloaded files right on the desktop where I can see them:

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Step 8. Note that, as file sizes go, kubuntu-7.10-desktop-i386.iso is a pretty large file: 697.1 MiB. If you have a slow Internet connection, it can take quite a while to download the entire file. And so, while we're waiting for the download to complete, let's go to your browser's 'Bookmarks' (Firefox) or 'Favorites' (IE) menu and click on the burning ISO howto link you saved earlier. Thus, while the download progresses, we can make the most of the time and read about the next step: how to burn an ISO CD.

(By the way, make sure your computer's CD drive is actually able to burn CDs. Not all of them are! If your CD drive cannot burn CDs, perhaps a friend will let you burn the CD on his/her computer. If this is the case you'll need to download the ISO image directly to your friend's computer - or you can copy the ISO file to a flash/thumb/jump drive, take the drive to your friend's house and then burn from the jump-drive to the CD.)

Before you attempt to burn the CD, make sure you have Infra Recorder. Don't use your native CD burner program, whatever you have, as it may or may not burn ISO files correctly. If you don't know for a fact that your native burner software can burn an ISO file, then use Infra Recorder for the purpose. It's free and it works. (But if you do decide use some other CD burner application and then find out that your shiny new Kubuntu CD won't boot under any circumstances, don't come crying to me. It's only fair)

Back to business: Click on the Infra Recorder link, as seen below near the bottom of the pic:

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Step 9. InfraRecorder's home page. Click on the Downloads link at the right-hand column under the heading Pages

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Step 10. On InfraRecorder's Downloads page, shown below, find 'Download version 0.44.1 for Windows 2000/XP/Vista (2.65 MiB)'. Click on Download

Step 11. Your download of InfraRecorder should begin automagically. The file itself is called ir0441_unicode.exe. Geeks give their files such memorable names, yes? Save it to your desktop.

Step 12. Your download of kubuntu is probably still in progress at this point. Don't install InfraRecorder or do anything else of note on your computer until the download is complete. The ISO is quite large and any computer or connection hiccups are likely to corrupt the file, meaning you'll have to start over.

Go back to Kubuntu's burning ISO howto page and read it carefully. Make sure you understand each step before going on to the next. Even better is to read the instructions first before doing anything. These instructions included.

Hope this has been helpful. If it has, please mark it as a "good answer." A little kudos once in awhile never hurt anyone.

-e

See ya at the half pipe!

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#59
In reply to #54

Re: computers

04/21/2008 3:44 AM

There you go, a +1 vote ;o)

After this, you can go and have a look at Myth-TV and I think there is a stream on this distro for that.

www.mythtv.org

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#60
In reply to #54

Re: computers

04/21/2008 12:40 PM

Hi Europium,thanx for the step by step info that you have sheared with me and a lot of other friends on CR4!!!! I will go and have a look at that pages that you have give through to us!! Will let you know if I have any trouble shooting with LINUX!!!

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#62
In reply to #60

Re: computers

04/21/2008 4:28 PM

Phantomxxx writes: "Will let you know if I have any trouble shooting with LINUX!!!"

By all means do! And if I can't answer your question to your satisfaction, well, then, I'll find someone who can!

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#68
In reply to #62

Re: computers

04/22/2008 1:28 PM

Europium!!I have gone and had a look at the step by step that you had gives on CR4 and it looked very promised too me.But one of my friends have give to me a a PC box with all the goodies and a full LINUX cd thats ready to installed.So I am currently waiting for the staff to arrive.Once again thanx for the info that you and other CR4 members give to me and other people.

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#72
In reply to #68

Re: computers

04/24/2008 12:13 AM

Phantomxxx, do you live in Namibia? Just curious!

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#73
In reply to #72

Re: computers

04/24/2008 8:41 AM

Europium,you have hit the hammer on the nails head!!!!!!Yes I live in Namibia in the north!!where do you live????????

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#75
In reply to #73

Re: computers

04/27/2008 2:02 AM

Central Texas, USA.

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#77
In reply to #75

Re: computers

04/27/2008 11:31 PM

Close enough

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