Regarding car seal open/lclosed valves (cso/csc)

Thank you so much. This really helps. So basically, what i understand is that CSO/CSC is similar to LO/LC.. only the method of lockign the block valves is different.

How CSO/CSC done in Ball Valves

Most new valves all have specially designed pieces that attach to the valve handle and the the valve body. These pieces can then have a lock or seal put on the that will not allow the valve handle to be moved.

Older valves can have the special pieces added or you could wrap a chain around the handle so that it can not be moved. Finally, safety supply companys have generic LOCK, TAG and TRY kits that will allow you to lock most anything.

It is common in pharmaceutical primary manufacture, among other industries, to have padlocks on those valves that are to be secured and only to be operated under carefully-controlled procedure using a supervisory key system and Permit-to-Work arrangements. Determination of which valves are to be locked forms part of the HazOp [Hazard and Operability] study, which is a routine practice these days in well-run process industries. On-line encyclopaediae have more to say on this subject of HazOps.

your on the right track but there is SOOO much more to it than what you can put into a small spave like these ones.

ifm they were still around i would have suggested the Ziess-Ikon locking system records department in Berlin Germany. since assa-abloy took the company and many others over much of that data seems to be unavaiable.

if you can do a bit of digging look for either the T.A.O.L. website and send a email to either ron mcguire or paul bentley both are able to send right of the top of their heads more than you will ever want to know about the subject of mechanical lock out systems under great grand master key systems for indusrial applications.

if they can't help ask for a current email address for The Instituional Locksmiths' Association.

'da ber

Thank you everyone for these encouraging/ informative posts. yes, the subject is vast. I have procured Netherlocks interlocking systems for a client once for PSV block valves and simple pad locks numerous times for clients. But I think these methods of locking are indicated in the P&ID as "LO/LC" valves. I think CSO/CSC does not indicate the use of PAd locks or coded key lock method. It must be indicative of some other way of locking valves. Correct me if wrong.

Its all up to the user on how you define it. I've never seen a LO/LC except for in OSHA's Lock, Tag, Try system in plants. I could envision having LO/LC if you have batch operations and your clients need to assure that the batches of products are highly secured. Pipelines that leave the plants do use a LO/LC system because the public can get to them and tamper with the valve.

So the carseal program is where you have a controlled workforce and the valves are used frequently; this would be my base definition. LO/LC would be used when the people are uncontrolled or the valve is rarely if ever used.

Invitation declined.

Vicini has done a nice job of explaining this. I would only add that the most significant difference between the Lock Open / Lock Closed (LO/LC) and the CSO/CSC is the method used to keep the valve in its documented position.

A hard lock forces a slightly more rigid removal procedure, but the intent is the same. These are methods for administratively controlling the opening or closing of a valve.

One common practice in HAZOP studies (as someone mentioned above) is to assume that any valve can be opened or closed at any time. A LO/LC or CSO/CSC removes this option. See OSHA 119.1910 for further discussion of HAZOP procedures (or pay some expensive consultant to do it for you www.bradleyventures.com - shameless plug).

In your original question, you reference a block valve on a PSV. Obviously, you would not want that valve closed if the equipment was running, so either method could be used here as long as the operator training covers the method for removing the lock or seal.

Thank you everyone for all your contributions to this post. It helped me clear my concepts. cheers!

Use lockable valves