Go Green by thinking SMALL

Let me know how it goes!

I like some of your thoughts, but I think there are some hurdles for many others.

I like the research into small fuel cells. It used to be that the garage was the nest of innovation in the USA, but technology has become too complex and too expensive for those days of innovation. Larger corporations have the deep pockets and most (not all) of the new technological achievements are born there.

"A mere frame of nocomplexity..." No clue what that means.

"We have too much mindset on replacing the same sized vehicles with an army of sames sized vehicles..."

That will be a tough nut to crack. I like small cars (particularly when I am surrounded by them), but most people do not. Worse yet, we are sharing the road with huge commercial trucks and that is not going to change much at all.

Others actually do tow things like trailers, boats, cars, etc. for business or pleasure. They are not going away.

As gas goes up people will rethink their strategy and this will become a self correcting problem, but it will take time. Even now people are trying to trade in those bigger SUVs and SUV sales are down. Dealers are turning those trades away or offering trade in allowances well below what they were worth a year ago.

"why do we want to spend a trillion to make the whole chicken or the whole egg?" What do mean?

"along those lines," I am still lost, but I think you are talking about offering small power generators (solar, wind, whatever).

Well, some issues are LED lighting are it is so expensive that it is cheaper to buy the old incandescent and pay the money for the extra electricity. So there is no economy in buying LED lamps even if the electricity is free. Someday LEDs will be cheaper, but not today.

If you do the energy budget for what solar and wind can replace you will see that the cost of electricity from the grid is so cheap that it takes way too long for you to reach parity in savings when you consider the cost of these items. This is why you just don't see them now. You can't save money no matter how much you wish it true.

I would love to divorce myself from the utility company, but I also like to eat food I can cook and wash and dry my clothes. The average oven draws 20 amps or more. Hot water, washers, and dryers consume most of your energy budget. Lights are small in comparison and if you are like me you turn off any light you don't need. So, there just isn't a panacea of savings to be realized.

However, some good news may be on the horizon. I have been following the work of Dr. Bussard (who passed away last year) and his company is on the verge of a breakthrough with fusion. http://emc2fusion.org/

This may be real and the team has been proceeding steadily with development of this inertial electrostatic confinement version of a reactor.

Just to touch on a few items..

in terms of transport, I'm thinking of going after the crowd that is drawn toward scooters and motorbikes as a serious form of transportation (or serious second form).

Nobody likes dealing with big vehicles on the road, but street traffic.. particularly congested street traffic can be rather ho hum. Big vehicles become mere stationary objects to safely circumnavigate. The more small vehicles the safer we all are anyhow.

I'm also not thinking of sharing the major highways... towing the boat.. or any of that..

Here in Chicago we see a couple months of snow every year, but the number of small vehicles is increasing to the point to where they can be seen traveling in little herds. It's always up to the driver to assure their own safety within their environment, and that includes feeling comfortable on the road.

Many people who would feel uncomfortable on the highway in a smaller vehicle will get nervous when an 18 Wheeler passes them.. Even if they are driving an SUV.

Experience breeds confidence, but caution is our number one friend,

Think about a Small Utility Vehicle.. for just one or two people.. that could carry you shopping and such without being burdensome. Also, without being as dorky as a Segway.

There is a huge number of people who would be the early adopters of this technology if small shops could produce low cost alternative transportation? people would buy it? If they could fuel it?

Small vehicles mean less material, less cost, less investment.. there are a lot of reasons to start small.

If we had hundred of shops that could build vehicles based on a variety of available alternative fuel components specifically designed for SFV's? ..

It would be interesting.

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I disagree that LED room lighting is expensive.

If your are going to argue that incandescent is the way to stay, you have an agenda? I can't stand the heat they generate, and replacement can be a cost burden as well.

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You certainly can use solar and/or wind to power basic components.

for people with a cabin situation, or people living in remote areas, there are many reasons to be off grid.

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I would love to see fusion utilized in a safe and acceptable manner.

I know there are ways to do this as well.

The potential for nearly free electricity has been a long dream of nuclear power, but the utilities frown on giving it away.

infrastructure is costly, so it can never be useful to all people.

...

if I could get the local reactor to hand over a sliver of one of those so called 'spent' fuel rods they have in the chill tanks, I could provide all the steam power I need for the rest of my life! I swear, I'll keep it safe!

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PS.. I LOVE to cook, and can't wait to get a very nice electric convection oven.. amps up!

for now, I still think it would be irresponsible and foolish to NOT figure out ways to burn our existing fossil fuels in a safe and acceptable manner.

somebody will always be using them as long as they are available, so research and testing must still continue.

I'm a fan of turbo diesel, and would give it strong consideration in my vehicular future.

so many thoughts on the subject..... can you tell?

Most people are surprised when they discover how much it actually costs to use wind power etc.

An Australian electronics store (Jaycar) sell a ready to go Chinese made wind turbine for about 500$Aus. The blades have a diameter of 2.1m, it's mounted 6m high, and generates 200W with a wind speed of 29km/h.

That's not much power (and it's not reliable).

Since power from a wind turbine goes up with the square of the swept area, it makes economic sense to make them as big as possible (and situated in the best windy locations). Also maintenance costs are lower for bigger units (per kilowatt).

This is not to denigrate alternative energy sources, but to point out bigger IS better for some things.

I have only read a little bit of the above but to me solar seems the only way to go. For starters Hydrogen fueled cars/ viecles aren't practicle for the mass population as to generate enough hydrogen for the population would reqiure alot more power, if it is done by hydrolosys of water, but even industry production of hydrogen wont meet demand as well as oil does. It would be easier to have every house have at least one large solar panel on the roof, electric cars and government storing the energy in a battery bank. The mainatence cost of solar is only high when it breaks, but there are a lot more ways of protecting them from that happening.

An invention that will help in this is one that collects light by being stuck to the outside of a window pain via nanofilm and projects light inside only when the outside is dark. this film also acts as a tint and there is no more lighting costs, these lighs are pretty bright. they also come with switch to turn them off. it can also be hooked up to charge barreies.

And yes it already has been made.

The nanofilm sounds amazing.

Where can I get some and do the makers have a website?

hey guys...

thanks for the input.. and I'm not backing ANY particular technology.. just to reiterate..

I'm not pushing hydrogen.. however if fusion could be used to convert... not from water necessarily, but fossil fuel? It could be a really interesting.. and abundant fuel source. The Swedes certainly hope so, but in their cold clime, small unheated cars are unlikely to emerge soon..

with small vehicles and multiple companies you can have lots of people specializing in a variety of applications and concepts. from luxury free to highly evolved$.

Eventually you have these little high tech garages where people can actually work and develop with their own two hands. And they develop and compete with automated driving apparatus etc.

I know we can do it all in sedans, but I also know I can afford to do it.. ME.. on the small scale.

So..

All I'm suggesting is that whoever technology wants the most attention...

they should consider offering part starting with the smallest, least expensive..

Small companies that build bicycles, work bikes, and motorcycles and very small cars would have a field day incorporating readily available parts into their design options.

Maybe DARPA or Virgin or Gates could host a challenge to create 20 -50 pound 'kits' with the best power to weight ratios or whatever..

Cap the whole plan at motors that wouldn't try to exceed the equivalent of 250cc.. and less!

....

Think early last century when there were hundreds of car and motorcycle companies, and how well they help shape our current system.

the whole chicken... A selection of production ready alternative fuel vehicles for the masses

the whole egg... 50,000 or so filling stations readily to handle millions of new cars with big tanks...

Hey JE in Chicago

I understand what your saying. And as for that contest - something is underway in that sorts. Thought you might like to see one of those small cars that's currently being developed for the contest.

Some guidelines for the competition:

AXP winners must achieve the following energy and emissions requirements:

Fuel economy (energy efficiency): at least 100 MPGe

Total (wells-to-wheels3) Greenhouse Gas (GHG) emissions expressed as equivalent grams of CO2 per mile: no more than 200 g/mi

Criteria emissions: no worse than US EPA Tier II, bin 5 standards

GHG emissions from vehicle production no worse than typical vehicles in production today

http://www.motiveind.com/xprize.html

That's a great program. I'm aware of it, and will follow it from home, but that's my issue. That's ALL I can do. Follow it from home..

I could do more. My friends who are big gear heads would welcome the opportunity.

We need products that people can work with in their home shops.

Maybe a challenge to produce the smallest and most efficient power plants in a variety of categories?

Most people in the world drive alone ...most of the time... Our personal vehicles should be able to represent that while still remaining flexible...

--Two three or four vehicles that were developed in a modular fashion could link together to share the load, driving, and for extended commutes with the 'friends'..

why settle at 100mpg to move a box that will seldom fill?

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Obviously the standard vehicle is here for awhile.. we need direct replacements

, but we also need to replace what people consider a standard vehicle.

The mp3 generation is ready and willing to do all the groundwork.

We know how to build lightweight enclosures.. big deal.. focus on minimum energy.

The lightweight bodies .. or steel welded.. whatever.. they still need a powerplant in them that we can all have access to or what's the point?

Aside from rechargeable batteries and electric motors, I don't see any other options emerging very soon?

....

In the end, we might see filling stations that would supply a variety of fuels.

from compressed air and gasses such as methane/propane / hydrogen etc... As well as battery charging stations, or better yet.. swappable batteries in the same fashion we currently change out propane tanks.

just ideas..

Well at least some one is willing to make the first step. It might be a baby step - but yet it is a step in the right direction. And you know that we will not be able to make those leaps and bounds until all the old money grabbers in the government die off and we replace them with our generation.

I have to think about that.

Cheers to that!
No harm to the system intended! I'm just having a moment...
I have a couple projects of my own that I would love to give the old "university challenge" That's one area I have yet ... nor am I anxious to delve into.
Either way... real signs of life can only begin after a provisional patent. ______________
A lot is to be gained by the outcome of the automotive x challenge and in the end it's the major auto makers who will be taking a serious look at the designs.
While part of the challenge is to create executable products that would fit into the mainstream or alternative categories... I can only wonder how many of the teams could pull off a contender that existing production facilities could build? The automotive companies are not interested in replacing billions of dollars of investment in creating steel framed vehicles that are assembled and welded in cells along an assembly line that hasn't changed much in a ~century. I'd be impressed with a team who might not win in the sense of the challenge, but who could create a worthy contender utilizing a lighter gauge frame that could be manufactured on todays equipment. A lighter frame to support a lighter powertrain, brakes, body, accessories.. etc.. I'm most interested to see what the alternative class produces. They hold the best chances of thinking way outside the box... IMHO In the end, the most viable green products will really have a chance to shine. (way cool) ...That will lead to the production of other components! Interestingly, the technologies with big chances will likely be the ones who utilize technology gained largely from expired patents. That would spur others into action. ...yeah.. I'll be rooting for all of the teams..... for now.. We'll have to wait until later to post any bets! har de har

Use an old beer keg for the tank and buy a hydrogen pump for about $10,000.00 and you can produce 1 litler every few hours. Almost any engine that holds it's own oil will run on it.

on a slightly larger scale take a look at www.norc.us news article dated May 3, 08 check out the hydrogen portion don't forget the pdf full explanation at the bottom.

Our success will only be realized by your tax deductible membership, donations and involvement.

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What else do you do besides collect money? It's hard to tell from your site.

It's hard to tell what your speaking about 'larger scale?"

I was not asking for donations, I was directing you to the information on the Channel. To answer your question about what we do we are a rather new organization with the original idea of species recovery without closing the land to public use. We got involved or interested in this project when we were asked to take a look at the Salton Sea (a body of water in Southern California) proposed recovery programs. Have been working on this for a couple of years, not much budget. By larger scale,The article shows one way of producing enough clean fuel (hydregen) to fuel all the cars in California at a price much less than todays price. If you look at the report on the environmental issues you will understand where this fits into NORC's recovery of species. If you want to understand more you should have to look at the reports at the bottom of the news article that comes up when you click on the latest link or Here is a link to the news article. this is the link to the article I was talking about.

OK.. now I get it.. thanks for that link.. I'll read into it much more deeply..

..very interested.. cool..

Thanks for dumbing it down for me.

I could see myself making the leap... it's just a matter of time... I already know what I'll use to power the process...

my own.. yet to be fully utilized.. un patented.. green energy device... it's made to be...

I thought about it. What you propose is a microcar along the lines of an Isetta or Messerschmitt TG. Unsafe at highway speeds, rolling coffins due to their tiny size. Perhaps they would serve in metropolitan areas as in-city-only transportation for single people or a married couple, but not for a family, unless they had 2 cars, one normal and one micro. They could not be allowed on full-speed highways even if capable of highway speeds due to the lack of safety in any accident with any standard size vehicle. Microcars are death traps.

For bicyclists, they can upgrade to fuel cell scooters, electric scooters anyway. They love riding in rain, snow, cold and heat anyhow. Public transport users are the same.

For the rest of the normal families who do or do not live in a city a "same-sized" car is a necessity, perhaps even 2 cars or more when the children are older. Fuel cells are too expensive and are likely to remain so for some time. They are not viable as a means to replace the standard sized 5 passenger car.

Now some of your other ideas may have some merit. Try getting some money together and launch a business. Sell an integrated solar lighting kit that uses LEDs and has batteries included for nighttime use. Package up a wind generating system that will power a house, store power, and include the energy efficient lights and appliances. Don't just talk about it, do it. Then face reality. It is hard to develop a market, hard to get backers who have money. Hard to meet all the government regulations, red tape and bureaucratic nonsense to sell and install your kits. The government and building codes will trip you up, by not allowing efficiency. The greatest difficulty is in convincing people to spend money on some "crackpot" kit. Try it and I hope you succeed.