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Participant

Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 2

Recycling and Car Production

08/03/2006 12:47 PM

Here's a big-picture question... Assuming fairly complete fuel combustion, driving an economical vehicle put less CO2 into the air than does an less-economical one. However, MANUFACTURING that nice, eco-friendly vehicle produces a substantial amount of greenhouse gas, both from energy production for the factories, as well as from the factories themselves.

So, from an ecological point of view, what's the balancing point between keeping a vehicle like my Jeep Cherokee that's averaging about 18 mpg, versus a new 30 mpg vehicle? (Skip the landfill questions, because I'd still keep it for playing off-road!)

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Guru

Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Queensland Coalfields Australia.
Posts: 697
Good Answers: 11
#1

Recycling and car production.

08/03/2006 10:38 PM

Funnily enough I was thinking about energy recycling and usage this morning and realised that a large proportion of the energy used to produce complex devices like cars comes from the electricity grid. For instance remelting alloy for engine blocks - electric arc furnace, remelting ferrous metals - arc or induction, compressed air - electric motor powered compressor, injection moulding - electric resistance heating and hydraulic pressure from electric motor power, lighting, pumping, ventilation also all electric. If each manufacturing plant had as part of its operation a renewable energy producer which provided the equivalent energy for the forming and assembly of their products, consumption could become energy and "greenhouse" neutral abart from the production or non recycled raw materials. Far fetched but possibly achievable.

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Power-User
Canada - Member - BC Born, Alberta Raised, Quebec (poutine) crazed... Engineering Fields - Aerospace Engineering - An airplane is just a bunch of beams... Hobbies - Model Rocketry - Had fun as a kid...fun stuff Hobbies - CNC - dreaming of cutting Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - PID ME!

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Montreal, CANADA
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#2
In reply to #1

Re:Recycling and car production.

08/04/2006 10:18 AM

I think there needs to be a push from higher up (government) on companies to drop all the "build it so it lasts barely 4 years" attitude and start making things that last. Effort to prevent the depreciation of the vehicles will keep them on the road longer. I think it's pretty rediculous that a car can go from $20,000 to $1000. One thate note: Someone needs to put up some reward cash for whoever (university or private group) can design and prototype the perfect "eco" vehicle where, for 1-2 passengers + cargo (since carpooling just doesn't seem to appeal to majority of people) waste is minimised, recyclability optimised and longevity maximized. Maximum milage per amount of energy inputed (manufacturing, gasoline, recycling, etc) being the criteria to find the winner. Perhaps someone could make a composite (rust & fatigue proof at least) platform with a standard set of mounting holes all over it. Suspension, drivetrain and interior widgits can be added or swapped out as the owner feels fit or as they wear out and purchased from whoever they want.

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kkjensen
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Guru

Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Queensland Coalfields Australia.
Posts: 697
Good Answers: 11
#3
In reply to #2

Re:Recycling and car production.

08/06/2006 7:11 PM

It seems that depreciation is set for 60s quality, when service was required every 500 Miles (before we went decimal) and the car was a rust bucket by 60,000 miles. Modern (since Japan got involved ) cars are much better, 400,000 km life and service every 15,000km but the depreciation can be crippling. The last car I bought, I accepted with 11,000 km on it because I saved $11,000 over new, I'll keep it long enough that depreciation won't matter. Our other vehicle is over 13 years old with 220,000 km + on the clock. I'm actually waiting for a platform like you suggest, Tzero and Tesla are are both signposts on the way, but the practical platform is the key as is 600 km fuel range. The sad thing is without high oil prices, huge US Oil and Motor companies simply prevent alternatives coming to market. Maybe to get a multisupplier compatible platform we need IBM to make transportation devices.

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Anonymous Poster
#4
In reply to #2

Re:Recycling and car production.

08/31/2006 12:58 PM

to kkjensen: don't they call that the VW beetle? It came as a bus, sedan, open jeep like "Thing". Love the idea. seriously can anyone tell me how much energy it takes to produce a new car, any kind, i'm just really curious, cuz I have "recycled" 2 Hondas now, i.e., purchased reaaaaallllyyy used, and drive for a few years. Thanks Engineers. Sig, AC

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Anonymous Poster (1); Emjay4119 (2); kkjensen (1)

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